Neptune's Inferno

[Swayin]

If you haven't yet read it, pick up a copy of James Hornfischer's (Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors, Ship of Ghosts) newest, Neptune's Inferno, about the naval campaign for Guadalcanal. incredibly well researched, as all his stuff is ...and totally immersive. If you want to know what it was like to stand on the bridge wing of the San Francisco, looking out into the inky blackness of Ironbottom Sound waiting for the arrival of the IJN, this book is for you.

4 stars!

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Swayin

If you haven't yet read it, pick up a copy of James Hornfischer's (Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors, Ship of Ghosts) newest, Neptune's Inferno, about the naval campaign for Guadalcanal. incredibly well researched, as all his stuff is ...and totally immersive. If you want to know what it was like to stand on the bridge wing of a San Francisco, looking out into the inky blackness of Ironbottom Sound waiting for the arrival of the IJN, this book is for you.

4 stars!

Warspite1

Good to hear it's so good. The naval battles off Guadalcanal are such an interesting subject. I got this book for my birthday a few weeks back and its number 3 on my "to read order" right now.

[Cribtop]

Snagging this. Loved Tin Can Sailors.

[John 3rd]

There were some minor editing errors within it but I really did enjoy the perspective it took regarding the development (trials and tribulations) of the American surface force. Thought it is a very nice complement to Richard Frank's book...

[Swayin]

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Snagging this. Loved Tin Can Sailors.

My favorite book about the U.S. Navy ever written.

[ilovestrategy]

I'm gonna have to get it, after reading Shattered Sword for the third time. That and Toland's Decline of the Japanese Empire are my favorites. 

[Mundy]

I can recommend it. I got it for my Kindle a few weeks back. The story's told as well as Tin Can Sailors.

Ed-

[Lifer]

You can read portions of it on Amazon to get a taste.

Greg

[Nikademus]

Looks like i'm going to be the first dissenter. Currently reading it. I'm finding it a poor comparison to Frank's definitive work. To be fair, the book "is" advertised as a view from the US side for the surface battles and it is true to that form. (There are only brief commentaries re: Japanese command views and the tactical views are largely ancedotal comments)

For readers who want that "i feel like i was there" (as a US sailor) effect, the book can be recommended but for those who want a more dry narrative that focuses on what happened and why on both sides with only a smattering of ancedotal descriptions from witnesses at x station on y ship etc, i would avoid this book. While i found his comments on Captain Bode interesting, i would have appreciated a more thorough representation of how the battle set itself vs. a disertation on why the author felt that Bode was a bit of a prema-donna who expected to make Flag Rank in the near future.

Like Tin Can Sailors I also tend to find Hornfischer's selection of comments tends to give a distorted US centric view on things and he's definately not a technical author. A good example was his brief description of the 8/7 air attack which focused loosely on the bombing results and ended with ancedotal comments from shipboard witnesses about how "poor" they were giving an impression that of Japanese incompetence. Of the crushing fighter defeat of the LRCAP by the Tainen airgroup there is absolutely no mention.....which is suprising given the author later tries to go into detail into Fletcher's decision process on withdrawing. A tantilizing comment he makes but does not elaborate on is a suggestion that the IJA *knew* the US had broken the IJN's codes but there is no elaboration and no footnote explaining this incredible statement.

Overall, i'd recommend Frank any day over this book and that one should wait for it to come out in softback. $30 was not worth what i'm seeing so far.

[Schanilec]

MHQ (Military History Quarterly) pretty much gave Neptune's Inferno a thumbs down. Frank and Dull are the authors I turn to. Also S.E. Morison.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Looks like i'm going to be the first dissenter. Currently reading it. I'm finding it a poor comparison to Frank's definitive work. To be fair, the book "is" advertised as a view from the US side for the surface battles and it is true to that form. (There are only brief commentaries re: Japanese command views and the tactical views are largely ancedotal comments)

For readers who want that "i feel like i was there" (as a US sailor) effect, the book can be recommended but for those who want a more dry narrative that focuses on what happened and why on both sides with only a smattering of ancedotal descriptions from witnesses at x station on y ship etc, i would avoid this book. While i found his comments on Captain Bode interesting, i would have appreciated a more thorough representation of how the battle set itself vs. a disertation on why the author felt that Bode was a bit of a prema-donna who expected to make Flag Rank in the near future.

Like Tin Can Sailors I also tend to find Hornfischer's selection of comments tends to give a distorted US centric view on things and he's definately not a technical author. A good example was his brief description of the 8/7 air attack which focused loosely on the bombing results and ended with ancedotal comments from shipboard witnesses about how "poor" they were giving an impression that of Japanese incompetence. Of the crushing fighter defeat of the LRCAP by the Tainen airgroup there is absolutely no mention.....which is suprising given the author later tries to go into detail into Fletcher's decision process on withdrawing. A tantilizing comment he makes but does not elaborate on is a suggestion that the IJA *knew* the US had broken the IJN's codes but there is no elaboration and no footnote explaining this incredible statement.

Overall, i'd recommend Frank any day over this book and that one should wait for it to come out in softback. $30 was not worth what i'm seeing so far.

When you say "Frank's definitive work" do you mean Guadalcanal, or does he have another that deals solely with the naval aspects?

[Nikademus]

i mean "Guadalcanal"

While Frank's book covers all three elements, land/sea/air, so far Frank's account of the naval battles is far more detailed than Hornfischer's. I say "so far" because i've just gotten to the end of Savo Island in Hornfisher. It was as said, far far more sparce an account than Frank's and dealt solely with the US viewpoint. (there is but one small ancedotal comment from a Japanese officer re: the tactical battle)

I am admittedly struggling to continue reading "Neptune" It is not holding my attention well at all but granted, thats because i don't like history books choke full of ancedotal accounts. I had a similar issue with Gerald Aster's "The Bloody Forest" (about the Hurtgen Forest debacle) There was little analysis of the battle but mounds of ancedotal accounts from the soldiers and how they suffered trench foot, frostbite and had little direction etc etc

[modrow]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Looks like i'm going to be the first dissenter. Currently reading it. I'm finding it a poor comparison to Frank's definitive work. To be fair, the book "is" advertised as a view from the US side for the surface battles and it is true to that form. (There are only brief commentaries re: Japanese command views and the tactical views are largely ancedotal comments)

For readers who want that "i feel like i was there" (as a US sailor) effect, the book can be recommended but for those who want a more dry narrative that focuses on what happened and why on both sides with only a smattering of ancedotal descriptions from witnesses at x station on y ship etc, i would avoid this book. While i found his comments on Captain Bode interesting, i would have appreciated a more thorough representation of how the battle set itself vs. a disertation on why the author felt that Bode was a bit of a prema-donna who expected to make Flag Rank in the near future.

Like Tin Can Sailors I also tend to find Hornfischer's selection of comments tends to give a distorted US centric view on things and he's definately not a technical author. A good example was his brief description of the 8/7 air attack which focused loosely on the bombing results and ended with ancedotal comments from shipboard witnesses about how "poor" they were giving an impression that of Japanese incompetence. Of the crushing fighter defeat of the LRCAP by the Tainen airgroup there is absolutely no mention.....which is suprising given the author later tries to go into detail into Fletcher's decision process on withdrawing. A tantilizing comment he makes but does not elaborate on is a suggestion that the IJA *knew* the US had broken the IJN's codes but there is no elaboration and no footnote explaining this incredible statement.

Overall, i'd recommend Frank any day over this book and that one should wait for it to come out in softback. $30 was not worth what i'm seeing so far.

+1

Even though I cannot compare to Frank and did not read Tin Can Sailors, I agree fully to Nikademus' review. Nothing to add IMHO.

Just my 2cts.

Hartwig

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

i mean "Guadalcanal"

While Frank's book covers all three elements, land/sea/air, so far Frank's account of the naval battles is far more detailed than Hornfischer's. I say "so far" because i've just gotten to the end of Savo Island in Hornfisher. It was as said, far far more sparce an account than Frank's and dealt solely with the US viewpoint. (there is but one small ancedotal comment from a Japanese officer re: the tactical battle)

I am admittedly struggling to continue reading "Neptune" It is not holding my attention well at all but granted, thats because i don't like history books choke full of ancedotal accounts. I had a similar issue with Gerald Aster's "The Bloody Forest" (about the Hurtgen Forest debacle) There was little analysis of the battle but mounds of ancedotal accounts from the soldiers and how they suffered trench foot, frostbite and had little direction etc etc

I've read Guadalcanal and found it outstanding. Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors I also thought was excellent, but as you point out it was heavily anecdote-oriented. Two different cups of tea. So then Neptune's Inferno perhaps I pick up at some time for a good read, knowing what it is I won't be surprised and disappointed.

[Swayin]

Yes, I'd say it really all depends a lot on personal taste. I find the kind of books that Nik says he likes - dry narrative - to be boring and lack the infusion of emotion given of personal accounts. Perhaps this has a lot to do with my trade, journalism, which of course has as one of its tenets letting the subjects tell the story as they see it and let readers decide for themselves the efficacy of their views.

And FWIW, Armchair General loved the book and the MHQ review I read was quite favorable, and was written by Jeffrey Barlow, a historian at the U.S. Naval History and Heritage Command.

Here's an excerpt of that review:

Portions of the book are less successful than they could be. Hornfischer does not appear to have a clear understanding of some of the troubling command issues at Guadalcanal, particularly the supposed culpability of Vice Admiral Frank Jack Fletcher, who removed his aircraft carriers from their supporting positions, reducing the island's initial defenses. Similarly, the discussion of the Battle of Tassafaronga at the end of November 1942 is surprisingly sketchy.

Still, the entertaining Neptune's Inferno has much to interest the general reader, with plenty of the rich detail you'd expect from Hornfischer. Particularly noteworthy: his account of Rear Admiral Willis Lee's night action in mid-November, when the 16-inch-gunned battleship Washington pummeled the battleship Kirishima into little more than a floating hulk.

Hornfischer also nicely captures the viewpoint of sailors such as Ensign George Weems, who was on board the destroyer McCalla at the Battle of Cape Esperance in October. As the American cruiser force fired on the Japanese at 2,500 to 3,500 yards, Weems recalls, "I felt a wildly exultant joy in watching us let them have so much at such murderous range."

Just my point of view; obviously I'm a fan of the book and the author. Love his style and his research.

[MaB1708]

While struggling in my first PBEM and having realized that a little more background around the pacific war might be usefull (as someone who has not learned about this conflict at school at all) I am building up my library adding some oeuvres. The aforementioned "Guadalcanal" by Frank (Richard B. Frank I assume that is) appears in my amazon as "Guadalcanal" (sold out) and "Guadalcanal - The definite account of the landmark battle" - same thing? I would like to add to my wishlist, birthday comes soon enough.
Thanks!
Regards,
Martin

[Mynok]

Wish they'd get some of these older reference titles on Kindle.

[Skyros]

I had just finished this book when I found myself waiting on my daughter at an animas convention. I was sitting in one of the hotel lounges playing AE on my laptop when an extended family came in. They were having their family reunion and were reminicing about WWII. One of the wifes spoke for her husband, an elderly man in a wheelchair. She started to recount the battle of Guadalcanal and the sinking of the Juneau. It appears that her husband was a pharmacist on the San Francisco, survived the night action and was knocked off his feet when the Juneau was torpedo.

I of course sat their with my ears wide open. Later i approached his wife to confirm what I had heard. She recounted the stories and answered my questions. He was in very poor shape and would nod in confirmation. I went back to my laptop wishing I had my iPAD which had the book. Then I remembered that I could download another copy to my laptop. I brought my laptop over and shared the pictures with him and his wife. He did not recognize the officers, but one of the pictures made him very excited and he kept repeating that's her. It was the close up of the sailors as the San Fran entered the harbor.

One of my few wow moments.

[ilovestrategy]

Skyros, thats so cool!

[Swayin]

ORIGINAL: Skyros

I had just finished this book when I found myself waiting on my daughter at an animas convention. I was sitting in one of the hotel lounges playing AE on my laptop when an extended family came in. They were having their family reunion and were reminicing about WWII. One of the wifes spoke for her husband, an elderly man in a wheelchair. She started to recount the battle of Guadalcanal and the sinking of the Juneau. It appears that her husband was a pharmacist on the San Francisco, survived the night action and was knocked off his feet when the Juneau was torpedo.

I of course sat their with my ears wide open. Later i approached his wife to confirm what I had heard. She recounted the stories and answered my questions. He was in very poor shape and would nod in confirmation. I went back to my laptop wishing I had my iPAD which had the book. Then I remembered that I could download another copy to my laptop. I brought my laptop over and shared the pictures with him and his wife. He did not recognize the officers, but one of the pictures made him very excited and he kept repeating that's her. It was the close up of the sailors as the San Fran entered the harbor.

One of my few wow moments.

that story made my day!