The Power of Inexperience / GreyJoy(A)-Rader(J)

[GreyJoy]

Soleinvictus, Witpqs and BlackHorse,
 
   thanks guys for your inputs.
 
I'm sure those eng are combat eng and not just seabees. If BH is right and he has 200/250 AVs there...well, i won't be able to dislodge him even if he doesn't have any fort (i doubt he doesn't).
So let's say the Marcus Is. operation has been a recognition in force and nothing more...kind of the one planned by Nimitz in late 42...
 
Anyway, more bad news. The intel reports more than 16k men based at Iwo Jiima...Rader has fortified and well defended all those bases i intended to invade...bad luck or my plans are so obvious? probably both of them...
 
However now we'll try to "taste" Wake and see what he has there so we'll be able to decide what to do. In the meanwhile my Amph TFs will station far away close to Midway waiting for the green light.
 
The KB isn't showing herself anymore...it's been now 6 days since she left from my sight and i'm getting pretty worried... is she coming back? I hope not...i hope she's just R&R at Colombo...if she gets back to pacific that will mean my plans must be aborted again...[:o]
 
August 24,25 1942
 
Usual bombings over Karachi and 120 units massing at 44,19...with LOTS of flak...don't understand what Rader is waiting for...
The supply situation in Karachi remains stable. The flux of supplies is constant and the efforts are paying off...
 
In the Pacific we moved our CVs away eastwards...subs didn't get me but there are at least 20 of them all around my ships...scary!! I've already put a devastator group on ASW and 2 Dountless groups on Naval search 100%....we'll try to get to wake tomorrow and to bomb the hell out of the japanese island in order to see what's his strenght and which units he has there...
 
In Sopac we landed the seabees at Efate and we're now building it...hopefully within 2/3 weeks we'll be able to estabilish a decent sub base here.
 
I also decided N-E OZ isn't in danger anymore so i sent to Cairns engineers and base forces in order to create here a good bomber base in order to start reducing PM by the end of the upcoming fall season...
 
 

[SoliInvictus202]

one thing about Wake to consider is that it gets a nasty CD gun unit sometime in 42 - IIRC it should already be there.... - if you don't put considerable heavy assets into your amphib TF your landing crafts and your troops will get chewed up before they're even ashore!

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: SoliInvictus202

one thing about Wake to consider is that it gets a nasty CD gun unit sometime in 42 - IIRC it should already be there.... - if you don't put considerable heavy assets into your amphib TF your landing crafts and your troops will get chewed up before they're even ashore!

Thx mate!...well, think we'll soon discover what he has there. Next turn we should be able to start bombing it so we'll see...i'm now more concerned about the KB...where is it?

[WLockard]

I have been reading this AAR and I would like to know what the fascination is with Wake and Marcus Islands? Neither are very useful or defensible. I would think you would want to make your main attack in an area you could take multiple targets and use your land based air power from multiple locations. Please enlighten me.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: WLockard

I have been reading this AAR and I would like to know what the fascination is with Wake and Marcus Islands? Neither are very useful or defensible. I would think you would want to make your main attack in an area you could take multiple targets and use your land based air power from multiple locations. Please enlighten me.

Hi mate!
Wake and Marcus were originally just a part of my major operation against Iwo Jiima and the Gilberts. They wanted to be the coverage of my main conquest of the Bonins. I intended them to be conquered because i wanted to cover my flanks...everything was based on a wrong (or better: partial) intel that in 8 months signaled just weak forces present on those islands. That's why i devoted to these "side-shows" only minor assets...

But now the plan is crumbling down cause Iwo is reported FULL of troops and Marcus has already shown me that it is a far tougher nut to crack than what i believed...

I hope Wake will be an easier target...if so i'll switch to just the "second half" of the plan...so to say Wake and the Gilberts...with a decent CV force i think i should succeed now in the Gilberts (remember that i already aborted a plan a couple of months ago there...)

[jeffk3510]

ORIGINAL: USS America

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

Also- have you sorted out and KEPT all of your APs that can convert to APAs?  That is a must.

Done, even if i was planning to use them during the Marshalls invasion due to their Superb unload ratio... think i'll use them in the Bonins too...i know they're usefull but i need to be ashore fast!

What's the easiest way for me to be able to find all the ships that can be converted to APAs? Is there any way other than going through ship by ship?

Mike- Terminus posted this in a discussion a few pages back, instead of giving you the link to scroll through and find it, I just copied his text.

Originally from Terminus- (AP -> APA: Harris, Heywood, McCawley, Pres. Jackson, Sumter and Bayfield classes.)

[jeffk3510]

GreyJoy- I still follow your AAR, but do not post as much as I used to on it...

You have been given a lot of useful and helpful information from day one...my biggest concern is your tendency to change your plans on a dime, and go for something unrealistic...

I STRONGLY urge you to strengthen your SOPAC area before you carry out ANY type of operation into Japanese territory into that area.  Strengthen any area you plan to stage an operation from for that fact….

I, too, am wondering your fascination with Wake and Marcus...do you understand the consequences of supplying those bases SO far away from your own, and the logistics nightmare without strong front line ports?    These ports are in front of even STRONGER ports back home, away from the front lines.  Yes it could cause a thorn in his side, but more than likely he will STARVE you out of those two places if you happen to take them, making them a POW island for anything you send there.

I am big on logistics for more than a number of reason, but I will list a few..

1. It is the sole foundation for anything and everything you do.  Your ships must have fuel, your planes and units must have supply, and your bases most have both.  Period
2. I do it for a living, love it, and it comes naturally...(anyone interested in a PBEM, I will run your logistics [8|] )

With that being said, you can do any invasion you like, anywhere you like, but I would STRONGLY steer you to building up the supporting forces behind those LARGE invasions first.  I would also urge you to look longer term and have a defined goal for say 6 months out, 12 months, 18 months... not just "Oh if Wake doesn't work, I'll try the Marshalls."  I honestly don't think you can support a large scale invasion at this point with the lack of logistics in the SoPac, Pearl, West Coast, and Aussie areas...

BUT, do you know what you have enough ships, supply, and fuel for right now?

Build up the following:

Brisbane, Sydney, Perth, Suva, Pago Pago, and all of those island between that area and West Coast should be built up and secured from DAY 1.  I can’t say on India for now, because you hold Karachi and are running in supply daily it seems like, but you will take back India at some point, and we’ll cross that bridge when you get to it.

I have also noticed you say- "I think if I have this here and this here, hopefully this will happen… well, unfortunately, this is a numbers game, and that is not how it works.  If he brings more AVs, has higher morale, higher supply, better leaders, and blasts you first, you’re toast. There really is no “maybe I can hold out if this this and this happens..”  It’s a numbers game IMO.  Certain supply is required per day per unit, fuel, and all of that jazz.  Period.  You are becoming a lot better at this from day one, but I tend to see you comment on this…(I am not god at this, I will be the first to admit, or at AE period.)

I just get the feeling your entire focus is on India.  We hear about an invasion idea here and there, but I am curious ( just because I enjoy hearing what is going on, and so others can offer input and see what you think.) what your plans are, both short and long term.  A clear, defined, and reachable goal. 

Looking forward to the outcome.

[SoliInvictus202]

I've been trying to keep my mouth shut about strategy in this game, as I am personally convinced that "every man should make up his own mind on what and how he wants to fight HIS war" - therefore I only tried to provide you with hints and smaller observations to YOUR decisions...

nevertheless I totally agree with jeff here and I, too, can only strongly urge you to come up with a long term plan and have a look at the BIG PICTURE!!! - many have already said this here - Nemo, Canoe are only two of them - but you need to prepare for invasions - stock supplies, stock fuel (most importantly as you'll always be short on fuel in your operational areas, even at the time when you'll receive 1 TK a week, or more), gather ships, prep units (3 months to prep one, if you change target when it reaches 99, you start from scratch, and having a unit prepped at 50 will help you about as much as a unit 100 prepped for another target!....just to point out that you need to look AHEAD!)

I like your fighting spirit and your determination to keep on playing, despite several defeats - but you should start looking forward and making a plan to REGAIN the initiative, (yes, it might be to early now, but without a proper idea you'll never be in charge of this war) - but not only by raiding a few islands with your CVs (which sums up your operation on Marcus and Wake to date) but by getting stuff together to take on the EMPIRE!

seeing that your opponent prepared for such an move of yours - seeing that your opponent foresaw that you might attack on the other side of the map while he was in India should point out to you that you're facing more than just a very good player! - taking this war step by step will only lead to the fact that he'll always stay 4 steps ahead of you - and that brings disaster along with it!

good luck to you for your future operations!

PS: and as always, when I type something here- it'S not meant personally!

[GreyJoy]

Guys, absolutely nothing personal! never need to excuse! I thank you all for the time expended dropping lines and giving hints to me.
 
i'll do the AAR for the turn and then will reply to you friends.
 
August 26,27 1942
 
Our CVs approached Wake on the 26th...slaloming among not less than 20 enemy subs...The day after we were close enough to send our bombers but before my guys took off a wave of enemies took off from Wake AF...30 Vals escorted by 30 A6m2s...luckly my CAP was strong enough and we managed to down the whole wave...not a single Val got through (that's good because it prooves that our Navy Pilots finally reached a number to be able to tangle enemy LBA when not overwhelmed). Then our Avangers and Dauntless took off and fought against a strong CAP made up by zeros and oscars. We got through with only 5 losses and we mauled the base....
As i feared Rader has fortified Wake too...6500 units there with the previously mentioned CD unit and some Infantry...
 
I consider now this as an recognition in force...also a mission that showed me what my 6CVs can do togheder...a very good offensive weapon i'd say.
 
In India still the same usual bombings at Karachi with 10 planes torched on the ground but 17 enemies downed by my flak.
 
now his army at 44,19 is composed of 140 units...think the time as come now. He'll cross within the next 2/3 turns i'd say...
 
Another big SCTF moved north from Bombay. Still no sign of the KB...i feel a little bit strange about the fact that the KB isn't showing up right now that he's ready to cross...sounds strange...
 
However, the fact is that i, once again, showed that i'm not at the level of my opponent...my strategical thought is weak...and i admit it.
The failure of the last operation is a clear proove of my inability to determine the big picture.
 
Anyway i'm not giving up. Secure my starting positions? yes, i do agree. PH and Hawaii should be really safe now with troops and forts in every island.
Christmas is safe and so should be Pago Pago with 300 AVs and lots of forts. Suva is being building and so it is Noumea (during the last 2 weeks).
 
Sydney is built at max and now it's Brisbane and Cairns those who are being built and fortified. The supply chain is slowly getting at a good flux level with ships bringing supplies and fuel to PH from WC, then from here to Christmas, from Christmas to Pago Pago and from here to Suva.
It will take some more time to consider this a "maginot" line but with all those enemies in India i think i'll have the time to prepare at best my starting positions...
 
However, talking about starting positions...what i'm looking for is a place from where i can start to ruin his perimeter. That's why i wanted the Gilberts and that's why i considered the hypotesis of Iwo Jima (supported by the two minor invasions of Wake and Marcus) when Nemo suggested it.
now that this operation went FUBAR i'm not abbandoning the idea of looking for a soft spot. My main problem is that i don't have any decent long range recon and i never know what is his disposition before i face it with an invasion...now at least i know that the eastern perimeter is strong...so i'll be trying again the southern Gilberts...with these powerfull CVs now i feel pretty confident that i can manage to face his LBAs when at long range...but first i need to know if he has fortified Tarawa, Abenama and Makin in the meanwhile (i remember that 2 months ago those islands were almost unguarded).
 
Anyway...i need to stop and think about your precious and wise words. I think i read in another thread that sometimes it's better to sit down and refresh your mind when you have entered in a spiral dive like me...
 
Tomorrow i'm leaving for a fair...i'll be unplugged for 3 days...will use these days to re-think about my all strategy and my overall situation.
 
Thank you all. And i really mean it

[jeffk3510]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Guys, absolutely nothing personal! never need to excuse! I thank you all for the time expended dropping lines and giving hints to me.

Good. Nothing is ever personal. I really enjoy your AAR.

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

However, the fact is that i, once again, showed that i'm not at the level of my opponent...my strategical thought is weak...and i admit it.
The failure of the last operation is a clear proove of my inability to determine the big picture.

Anyway i'm not giving up.

Not giving up is the best thing you can do. No one should ever give up on anything. I gave up on Jennifer Aniston after I realized I had nothing Brad Pitt couldn't already offer, but that is beside the point.

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Tomorrow i'm leaving for a fair...i'll be unplugged for 3 days...will use these days to re-think about my all strategy and my overall situation.

Naw, don't even think about it one bit. Enjoy the time spent with your family. You will never get that time back, trust me. I see my little boy every weekend, while my wife waits in McPherson for our house to sell with my new job promotion...take your time with your family. I cannot repeat that enough.

[beppi]

You should at least try one of the invasions, to gain experiecene even if it fails it will not lose the war nor have a massive impact. Do not completly shred you units if the invasion fails and do not try to pure some not prepped units into the combat to turn the tide.

You get more than enough replacements to completely absorb a failed 6k island invasion without any problem. The experience you gain from it is it worth.

From my experience capturing 6k islands with around 6k troops and lvl 6 forts is tricky but doable. You have to rely on naval bombardment large style if you want to capture it quite easy. I usually try to get an island somewhere near the targets i want to invade. A 2-3 day trip for battle ships should be the maximum. Drop 10 AOs and 10AKEs with supply into the port and you can rotate you naval bombardment TFs for a few runs. The goal is to destroy his supply on the target and get his unit to around 80+ disruption. If you achieve that the invasion is not a big deal any more. That is only possible if you control the sea and KB is either sunk or not present. So think about it. To deal with the subs, just put you Carrier TBs and DBs on ASW, 100 feet, 80% or so and the subs will be gone in a few turns. Again you have to be sure that KB is not around. Right now 6 days is not enough to move from India to the Central pacific so you have a window of around 10 more days. If you do not spot KB until then somewhere you should be careful.

In general invasions of the islands in centpac sucks and they are not worth any invasions prior to 1944. The only reason to invade that islands is to shorten your supply line if you move close to Philippines. I would advise you an invasion from NE of Australia into the SRA. Get PM (good VP boos) and move to the NW from that area. This way really threatens him (oil area) you have a lot of overlapping bases (most of the lvl 8 AF) there are usually less restrictions in invasions sizes. In addition there are so many bases that you always find some islands to invade which are not defended.

Wake is a nice prison camp when KB is around, Marcus Island the same. Iwo Jima is not defendable for the allies until at least mid 1943 so not worth is too in my opinion.

Centpac islands suck and do not really threat anything, take too long to capture, are to small to provide a base for further invasions, are to small to be a good supply hub/fleet base. You can invade there if you really want and train you invasion skills but in general attack somewhere else.

[DOCUP]

Grey I understand your pain. I am useing your game to see how my ideas (newbi here also) would work. I missed most of the indian campaign. So now thinking of my ideas and comparing them to what the experts are saying. I'm not doing any better than you. I respect you for sticking with this game and working out YOUR plans for good, bad or the ugly. Keep up the good work. One of my fav AAR's so far.

doc

[DOCUP]

Oh PS Have fun with your fam.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

However, talking about starting positions...what i'm looking for is a place from where i can start to ruin his perimeter.

When in doubt I usually look at what those very smart real-life five-stars did. You keep looking for a hail Mary option that gets you half-way home at no cost. Small, lone islands, as has been said many times, can be isolated and starved, then killed, especially in the early war.

If you're looking for a forward toe-hold, look at the Solomons. Boring? Maybe. But mutually supportive, phased steps forward toward Rabaul, good airbase options, and friendly country at your back (Oz.) There were good reasons why the US went for the Solomons in 1942 and waited another year-plus to test the Marshalls.

No free lunches. Just grinding out the geographic gains while you build strength. There are players who can pull off the elegant multi-pronged operation in 1942, but you're not there yet. If I were in this game, as I've never played PBEM, I couldn't either. Which is why I'd be planning to hit the Solomons. It may be a Chevy, but Chevys get you to your destinaiton just as well as a Jag. Less style, but hey . . . style is over-rated.

[GreyJoy]

I'd like to have time to reply to you Beppi DOCUP and Bullw. but i really have no time right now. Just know i really thank you!

...now just an headline news before leaving...

August 29 1942

LOD is finally CROSSED. 3 units entered at Hebadan (north of surat) and 139 units moved from 44,19, while paras were dropped over those bases south and west of Dehli... can't wait!

CV Saratoga is torpedoed while she was moving back from Wake towards the replenishment TF and the Amph TFs...She now has 10 sys and 39 fld....



...we'll have some fun for sure the upcoming week end guys...looking forward to get back asap!!!

[terje439]

[CaptBeefheart]

I'd like to second the Moose's idea that the Solomons/New Guinea axis is a good axis to attack through. You can use your LBA to good effect and you don't have to worry about stacking limits and atoll attacks (you almost have to have LSTs, LCIs and APAs to do those properly). Also, if you get into a CV battle, having LBA and emergency airfields nearby is key.

Operation Cartwheel (i.e. the Solomons/New Guinea campaign) plays to your strengths 1942 to mid-43. Once mid-43 comes around, you will have the option of continuing on that axis, going the Cenpac route and/or going into the eastern DEI.

One more thought: I really wonder if this whole LOD thing in India is a bluff, what with the KB disappearing. Very interesting.
EDIT: Oops, missed the part above saying LOD was crossed. As Emily Litella would say: "Never mind."

Cheers,
CC

[beppi]

As the LOD is crossed and you got around 200 Ind Inf 42 Squads the first thing you should do is to bring all you indian division to the Ind Inf 42 Squad type. Do not fill them out and drain you pool to much prior to bringing everything to the new type.

Ind 42 Squads are stronger than the old type and that strength might influence the comming battles. Best way to do is to turn your replacements of every unit which has Ind42 Squads and does not have a full TOE off. Turn the replacements of one division with the older squads on and split it into three parts (A/B/C). As soon as a part of a division has upgraded turn the replacements off as you do not want to drain you Ind 42 Squads to much right now. As soon as a division is fully upgraded rebuild it and keep the replacements off and proceed to the next division.

You goal should be to upgrade all you indian divisions to the new squad type prior to filling them out with the reinforcements.

In addition depending on the patch you play, ask Reader to turn on the automatic squad device pool upgrade option which was added with one of the latest beta patches. It is absolutly possible to optimize your upgrade manually and completly drain all squads (in my PBEM the Ind 42, Ind 42, AIF, AIF42, AIF 43, Brit, Brit42, Chinese 41) are completly emtpy to optimize you strength and to not lose any older squad but is is hughe PITA and you have to micromananage to the extreme to not lose any older type squads in the pool. The option would allow an auomatic migration of old squad types to the newer ones which reduces the micro management in this part massivly.

[DOCUP]

Grey

Couple of questions on your amphib landings. Did you have your follow up TFS ready? I'm talking about support troops, extra supplies etc. Were they at sea close by to drop off there contents when the islands were taken?

I also agree with Bullwinkle and the others the Solomons looks good. As your advisors have mentions to look to the future. The Solomons make that easy to do. Or atleast I think it does. Example take Canal several months later take another island, and so on till you reach Rabual. I can't give you real specifics about your game because I don't remember what is going on in this area.

Example
Day one: D-day land and take Canal

1 month later: Take another island

6 months later: Take Rabual

Remember I am new at this also so I could very well be wrong. Hopefully one of your advisors will tell you and me if I am wrong.

doc

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: beppi

Ind 42 Squads are stronger than the old type and that strength might influence the comming battles.

I agree with this, but, given the huge pile of Indian LCUs sitting at an isolated Karachi, he needs to be very aware of the supply costs of upgrading whole division TOEs.