Random weather - Again

[Taipan61]

The thing I do hate with historical weather is just that...Everyone knows the exact turn when mud/snow/blizzard appears, and accommodates many turns in advance for this situation. The same situation occurs when playing the AI. Yeah, it is very nice to know from opening turn in 41 that you will get mud on such-n-such turn and get the terrible winter of 41-42, but that in itself is very a-historical. Just as a-historical is not having a clue what the weather will be like in one weeks time if the random weather option is chosen.

What needs to be added to the game is a "forecasted weather" information tab.

The tab would advise the predicted weather for the next turn. If the historical weather option is chosen this predicted weather is what will happen, however if "random weather" is chosen this predicted weather will have a good chance of happening, but the result is not absolute. At least then you have a turns grace knowing what you could be up against next turn, instead of suddenly being up to your neck in mud and your panzers way out of position, while the weeks before had been full of brilliant sunshine.

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: Taipan

The thing I do hate with historical weather is just that...Everyone knows the exact turn when mud/snow/blizzard appears, and accommodates many turns in advance for this situation. The same situation occurs when playing the AI. Yeah, it is very nice to know from opening turn in 41 that you will get mud on such-n-such turn and get the terrible winter of 41-42, but that in itself is very a-historical. Just as a-historical is not having a clue what the weather will be like in one weeks time if the random weather option is chosen.

What needs to be added to the game is a "forecasted weather" information tab.

The tab would advise the predicted weather for the next turn. If the historical weather option is chosen this predicted weather is what will happen, however if "random weather" is chosen this predicted weather will have a good chance of happening, but the result is not absolute. At least then you have a turns grace knowing what you could be up against next turn, instead of suddenly being up to your neck in mud and your panzers way out of position, while the weeks before had been full of brilliant sunshine.

The problem now is that random weather is too random and non-random weather is too predictable. Something along the lines of what you suggest would be good, though what you say is not too far from how random weather works now, it is just that the table is a bit "wild and crazy".

An other alternative would be to let the historical weather have a chance of being either 1 or a ½ turn early or late. That means that both players know that mud is likely to occur on turn 18, but i might occur in the German turn 17 or in the Soviet turn 17, or in any player turn of turn 19. Similarly when it ends and snow starts. Thus the uncertainty would go both ways and not as now create unlikely maneuvers because you know that there will be mud the next enemy turn. The end of mud could be adjusted so that the length of mud would very likely be the same as non-random weather so as not to alter balance too much.

[Ridgeway]

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

ORIGINAL: Taipan

The thing I do hate with historical weather is just that...Everyone knows the exact turn when mud/snow/blizzard appears, and accommodates many turns in advance for this situation. The same situation occurs when playing the AI. Yeah, it is very nice to know from opening turn in 41 that you will get mud on such-n-such turn and get the terrible winter of 41-42, but that in itself is very a-historical. Just as a-historical is not having a clue what the weather will be like in one weeks time if the random weather option is chosen.

What needs to be added to the game is a "forecasted weather" information tab.

The tab would advise the predicted weather for the next turn. If the historical weather option is chosen this predicted weather is what will happen, however if "random weather" is chosen this predicted weather will have a good chance of happening, but the result is not absolute. At least then you have a turns grace knowing what you could be up against next turn, instead of suddenly being up to your neck in mud and your panzers way out of position, while the weeks before had been full of brilliant sunshine.

The problem now is that random weather is too random and non-random weather is too predictable. Something along the lines of what you suggest would be good, though what you say is not too far from how random weather works now, it is just that the table is a bit "wild and crazy".

An other alternative would be to let the historical weather have a chance of being either 1 or a ½ turn early or late. That means that both players know that mud is likely to occur on turn 18, but i might occur in the German turn 17 or in the Soviet turn 17, or in any player turn of turn 19. Similarly when it ends and snow starts. Thus the uncertainty would go both ways and not as now create unlikely maneuvers because you know that there will be mud the next enemy turn. The end of mud could be adjusted so that the length of mud would very likely be the same as non-random weather so as not to alter balance too much.

That is not a bad idea. The other possibility that I can think of would be to add a "rain" weather event, with movement etc. effects similar to snow, and provide that there could be no mud unless there had been a rain or snow event in one of the previous 2 weeks or so. This would mitigate the most catastrophic effects of random "mud" in 1941 -- that it comes literally out of the blue with instantaneous effect.

[KamilS]

I assume these numbers mean weather roll after modifications. If so, why I didn't get snow or mud? I am referring to results from 1st (Europe and south Soviet) and 3rd (south Soviet) winter turn

[Joel Billings]

Because of the rule that is in the readme file from several versions ago:


Missing Rule – Section 22.2 should contain an additional exception that states there will be no snow or mud during December 1941 and January 1942 (only Blizzard).

[KamilS]

Joel Billings

Because of the rule that is in the readme file from several versions ago:


Missing Rule – Section 22.2 should contain an additional exception that states there will be no snow or mud during December 1941 and January 1942 (only Blizzard).

I don't underestand. According to manual there is max one of each during dec and jan.

Do you mean that there was update and now random weather doesn't apply to December and January?

[KamilS]

Joel Billings

Because of the rule that is in the readme file from several versions ago:


Missing Rule – Section 22.2 should contain an additional exception that states there will be no snow or mud during December 1941 and January 1942 (only Blizzard).

Yes, you are right it was changed in V1.03 Beta 2 – January 21, 2011. So all this talk about how random weather balances itself - Germans get mud during summer soviets snow during blizzard was not true. What is the point of random weather then, if only Germans suffer?

I am extremely angry, because in game options I should have been informed that choosing random weather equals unbalancing game. I would never have choosen that stupid option if I knew about that change. Obviously reading manual doesn't help in understanding the game.

During summer, I got mud on turn 5th. Not only lost turn and got mu panzers badly damaged, but I lost 3 mot div and 1/3 pz div. Now I learn that Soviet won't find themselves in similar unfavourable conditions.

Thank you very much.

[Tarhunnas]

Random weather leaves things to luck. Unfavorable weather at the wrong time can benefit the Germans or it can benefit the Soviets. Less mud in the autumn or less blizzard in winter will be a big help to the Germans, while obviously mud in the summer will upset the German offensive. It will usually even out, but of course if you have a lot of good or bad luck in a game it will change the balance. If you look at history, a mild winter in 1941 would have "unbalanced" the second world war in favor of the Germans.

[KamilS]

Tarhunnas

Random weather leaves things to luck. Unfavorable weather at the wrong time can benefit the Germans or it can benefit the Soviets. Less mud in the autumn or less blizzard in winter will be a big help to the Germans

How can it even up? I don't really see it.

Snow can appear only in February, when Germans are quite strong. It would have impact in December and January, but it won't happened. No snow in Dec and Jan, should equal no mud in Jul and Aug otherwise there is no balance at all.


So I guess there is unwritten rule, that only people with lots of luck should try to play as Germans.

[henri51]

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

Random weather leaves things to luck. Unfavorable weather at the wrong time can benefit the Germans or it can benefit the Soviets. Less mud in the autumn or less blizzard in winter will be a big help to the Germans, while obviously mud in the summer will upset the German offensive. It will usually even out, but of course if you have a lot of good or bad luck in a game it will change the balance. If you look at history, a mild winter in 1941 would have "unbalanced" the second world war in favor of the Germans.

Not in the early game: unfavorable weather in 1941 or even 1942 can favor only the Soviets, since it is the Germans who are on the offensive.

Henri

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: Kamil

Tarhunnas

Random weather leaves things to luck. Unfavorable weather at the wrong time can benefit the Germans or it can benefit the Soviets. Less mud in the autumn or less blizzard in winter will be a big help to the Germans

How can it even up? I don't really see it.

Snow can appear only in February, when Germans are quite strong. It would have impact in December and January, but it won't happened. No snow in Dec and Jan, should equal no mud in Jul and Aug otherwise there is no balance at all.

Yes you have a point!

It can even up by less mud in the autumn though, but I guess that might be scant compensation for mud turn 4 or 5.