Fortress Java

[Bandkanon]

Hello everyone,

I am playing as Japan and my opponent has pulled everything out of Malaya (as much as possible) and garrisoned batavia and Java overall. He even threw in 11th Indian Division and the AVG into Java. He has about 2000av now in Java. Now its beginning of March and I have two divisions north of Batavia, but I lost several transports already getting those troops in.

First of all, I am a bit annoyed at this move. Is Fortress Java gamey by pulling out everything out to Java.

Second, how do I defeat this with minimal damage to my forces. Can I just ignore Java for awhile and take the rest of the SRA and leave Java last to wither away. Is there enough supply to make Java self sufficient?

Please help

[DivePac88]

No Fortress Java is not gamey, and now you know where he is, so go and get him.

[jeffk3510]

Completely cut him off, and choke the island...that would be a b***h to keep it supplied if you owned all of the DEI, Solomons, NG, you name it....

[Cribtop]

Fortress Java is easier to handle than Sumatra or Timor, IMHO, because Java is large enough that the Allies really can't afford to defend all the landing sites in strength. You should be able to put 5 or 6 divisions plus tanks and engineers ashore after you establish air superiority. It will take commitment of lots of LBA and probably KB, but isn't gamey and can be countered.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Bandkanon

Hello everyone,

I am playing as Japan and my opponent has pulled everything out of Malaya (as much as possible) and garrisoned batavia and Java overall. He even threw in 11th Indian Division and the AVG into Java. He has about 2000av now in Java. Now its beginning of March and I have two divisions north of Batavia, but I lost several transports already getting those troops in.

First of all, I am a bit annoyed at this move. Is Fortress Java gamey by pulling out everything out to Java.

Second, how do I defeat this with minimal damage to my forces. Can I just ignore Java for awhile and take the rest of the SRA and leave Java last to wither away. Is there enough supply to make Java self sufficient?

Please help

Hi Bandkanon,

How did your opponent manage to get so many troops from Singapore / Malaya to Java? By shipborne movement? How was this managed with your naval superiority in theatre. If you didn't have naval superiority in theatre, why not? Didn't you have IJNAF forces on hand to torpedo his ships making this move?

If he was able to strip all LCUs out of Malaya-Java, he must have largely bypassed building up Sumatra too. Why didn't you step into Sumatra to stop this movement immediately?

If you didn't have forces in place to prevent these moves, then you made a monumental mistake. Securing the DEI is a first order importance for Japanese players. Everything else comes after that. If your ships were busy chasing around the empty reaches of the Central Pacific or up by Bombay-way, you had them out of position to interdict his efforts at replacement.

Now, what can you do at this stage?

1. Bad news: You cannot ignore Java any longer. A heavily reinforced Java is a very, very dangerous Java. Take it and take it fast or you may never be able to secure the DEI properly. He will be interdicting oil and fuel out of Palembang, Soerbaja and Balikpapan. You will be hosed when you cannot utilize transport from these critical sectors.

2. Good news: You've got some sizeable LCUs that have cleared the Malay peninsula-hopefully ahead of the historical timetable. Use them to reinforce your efforts around Batavia and push him into the sea. Allied forces with lots of supply can hold out for quite some time in the mountainous and rough terrain of the middle of the island. Do what you can to keep him in the less-critical hexes.

Gamey?

Not at all. If the Allies can make this work, more power to them.

[Canoerebel]

It's tough for a fairly new player to know how to handle an unexpected and daunting situation, but I can tell you that an experienced Japanase player would only lick his lips and rub his hands together if an Allied player were so irresponsible as to maroon a big force on Java in early 1942.  You can isolate Java by taking the surrounding terrain, bomb and starve his troops to death, and probably get shots at his desperate attempts to reinforce, resupply, or pull a Dunkirk.  You've got him just where you want him if you can think rationally and proceed intelligently in dealing with the situation.  But that's easier said than done if you're relatively new to the game.  Good luck.
 
P.S.  It aint in the least bit gamey.

[Miller]

IMO if you play it right then Java is no more than a huge self serving POW camp for the Allies. Build up all the AF on Sumatra, the west coast of Borneo and Timor and he will not be able to resupply without taking unacceptable losses. Throw in some airfield and port bombing/bombardment and his troops will be eating grass by late 42..........

[Miller]

Damn beaten to it by the rebel scum[:@][;)]

[SuluSea]

ORIGINAL: Bandkanon
He has about 2000av now in Java. Now its beginning of March and I have two divisions north of Batavia, but I lost several transports already getting those troops in.

Hopefully you have plans to cut the island in two with a landing somewhere in the center of the island. I agree not gamey at all as you can't expect the allied player to sit and wait to be destroyed at their starting locations if escape is allowed.

[Nemo121]

Festung Java is a sub-optimal choice, far inferior to Festung Sumatra.

Much has been written in AARs on how to defeat it, it shouldn't be all that difficult at all.

As to gameyness. Just because something is unexpected and you didn't prepare for it doesn't make it gamey. In real life the Spartans couldn't accuse Epaminondas of "being gamey" after Leuctra. They were too busy being dead because of his unorthodox and contrarian arrangement of the line.


On the plus side.... now's your time to innovate yourself and come up with something HE wasn't expecting.

[ny59giants]

Build up Oosthaven on southern tip of Sumatra and place an Air HQ there. Base Nell/Betty and Zeros there to make any reinforcement or supply convoys expensive for him to get in.

Take Denpasar off the southern tip of Java and build it up (see Oosthaven).

Break down your large recon units into thirds and recon each base for a few days to see where he is hiding his troops. This will help determine where to invade at a later date, plus start to bomb those bases to prevent fort building.

[AW1Steve]

Fortress Java? DAMNED! Why didn't I think of that![:D]

[Bandkanon]

Thanks for the encouragement everyone.

Yes, this is my first PBEM game. As for asking about it being gamey, I just wanted to know.

And Chickenboy is right, I absolutely screwed up on using my naval assets. I was too conservative and fearful of naval LBAs. So I didn't do as much as should in interdicting shipping.

Now, I think what is causing me to panic is the slowness of the game (not that it is bad, just that as someone coming from RTSs, I am somewhat uncomfortable to long term strategies). A strategy of slowly grinding him down and blockading Java will take how long? How deadly would land based bombers be to transports landing in the middle of Java. That was my biggest fear as to why I landed north of Batavia. I could actually give really heavy CAP from Sumatra.

Anyway, so now I think its best to start taking over the rest of the DEI and isolate Java. But how long would this take on average?

Thanks for all the replies, gentlemen.

[Bandkanon]

Hey Miller,

You mentioned late 42. Ok so it is a long term grind. That makes me feel better. Damn RTS and FPS games have made a younger generation of gamers into responding to faster environments. If I don't see an immediate positive result I begin to think something is horribly wrong.

[topeverest]

Bandkanan,

good advice here. You have a great opportunity...

[Fallschirmjager]

ORIGINAL: Bandkanon

Thanks for the encouragement everyone.

Yes, this is my first PBEM game. As for asking about it being gamey, I just wanted to know.

And Chickenboy is right, I absolutely screwed up on using my naval assets. I was too conservative and fearful of naval LBAs. So I didn't do as much as should in interdicting shipping.

Now, I think what is causing me to panic is the slowness of the game (not that it is bad, just that as someone coming from RTSs, I am somewhat uncomfortable to long term strategies). A strategy of slowly grinding him down and blockading Java will take how long? How deadly would land based bombers be to transports landing in the middle of Java. That was my biggest fear as to why I landed north of Batavia. I could actually give really heavy CAP from Sumatra.

Anyway, so now I think its best to start taking over the rest of the DEI and isolate Java. But how long would this take on average?

Thanks for all the replies, gentlemen.

You really don't need to fear early Allied LBA. I don't mean send your transports in escorted and I don't mean don't provide CAP or run sweeps. But unless your opponent has trained up his bombers from day 1, then most of the Allied plane models are pure shit and their pilots can't even hit anything.

Move KB into the area and hope that he is dumb enough to attack. If he is then his air power will be shredded by your Zeros and chances are is that all you will take is OPs losses.
If he won't attack you, then run sweeps over his bases to see if you can draw out the fighters. If he won't do that then I think you mentioned that he drained Singapore of it's infantry. Take Singapore and build it up into a LBA for your IJA two engine bombers. You get get massive airfields there as well as a big port. Build it up and then pound Java unmercifully day in and day out. You can either destroy him in the air on or the ground.
Allied air power until late 1942 is absolute garbage. You really have nothing to fear. Be aggressive and force him to fight you or watch as all of his air power is destroyed on the ground.

[Schanilec]

Don't totally discount early allied airpower. PBY's at 1,000 feet are pretty potent. Also, since Singapore was abandoned. You must be having dinner in Calcutta. If not, why?

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Bandkanon

Hello everyone,

I am playing as Japan and my opponent has pulled everything out of Malaya (as much as possible) and garrisoned batavia and Java overall. He even threw in 11th Indian Division and the AVG into Java. He has about 2000av now in Java. Now its beginning of March and I have two divisions north of Batavia, but I lost several transports already getting those troops in.

First of all, I am a bit annoyed at this move. Is Fortress Java gamey by pulling out everything out to Java.

Second, how do I defeat this with minimal damage to my forces. Can I just ignore Java for awhile and take the rest of the SRA and leave Java last to wither away. Is there enough supply to make Java self sufficient?

Please help

It can be gamey in that the new map allows Java to "truely" be turned into a fortress by use of the two Mountain Redoubts located within Java. Due to the way the supply rules work, Player 2 can ignore the need to protect cities and resources both politically as well as economically and create two very formidable "telephone poles" in those two hexes that will take weeks for Player one to reduce. Yes....it "is" annoying when it's done to that extreme, unfortunately it's also a legitimate game move. The effect of a large telephone pole of troops defeats counter-mechanisms of morale failure and low supply to a degree and of course the new Mountain defensive bonus makes it an extremely tough nut or couple of nuts to crack.

[Smeulders]

Then again, the mountain redoubts aren't a danger either. The Japanese player can take all the important bases and then take his sweet time reducing the redoubts. It will take some time and weaken the follow-up Japanese attacks, but it's not an insurmountable problem.

[Nikademus]

yes and no.

like the PI situation, leaving not one but TWO very large telephone poles full of enemy troops in your rear area is not something one wants to have to contemplate. First off it required Joe and I to station a good amount of troops there to make sure they "stayed put" Sooner or later they had to be dealt with and it cost us weeks of game time to acomplish. It bugged me because of course it was a move designed to exploit to the max the defensive terrains now present in AE but also because it defied the real life logic of the situation. Price one pays however for having a system that tries to do it all. As has been mentioned, the origins of the land combat code trace all the way back to the mostly jungle warfare module of Pacwar. It, along with no stacking limits per hex (outside of Atoll hexes now) makes reducing large telephone poles anywhere problamatic....more so in defensive friendly terrain like the mountain redoubts. There, low morale and experience and a complete lack of supply or replenishment are largely counteracted and it makes for a very tough nut to crack unless one is an offensive genius OR...unless the defender gets cocky and launches a counterattack that fails. (best strategy is to never attack and just sit there defensively)

The only way i know of to get around such things is to attack such locations first before the telephone poles can be established, which in turn begets more gamey play.....the most famous of them all.....the attack the fringes first and work your way back tactic. Since Joe and I refused to play along such lines we basically handicaped ourselves and ran into "telephone poles" whenever we advanced to a distant future objective.