The Power of Inexperience / GreyJoy(A)-Rader(J)

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: ADB123

3. We'll get 3 only CVEs+ the Long Island by mid june 43

You CAN'T fly combat missions off of the "Lost Island". You can only transport planes with it. One of my Allied opponents tried to use Long Island to provide CAP during an invasion and he was very surprised and disappointed to find out that his fighters just sat on the ship while I was sinking it.

This isn't correct. You can fly combat missions from Long Island. I've used it for CAP and I recall that Q-Ball used it for CAP in his game vs. Cuttlefish. I also think you can fly SBDs from it (and presumably torpedo bombers too) as long as you don't exceed the limit of aircraft.

[SoliInvictus202]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

ORIGINAL: ADB123

3. We'll get 3 only CVEs+ the Long Island by mid june 43

You CAN'T fly combat missions off of the "Lost Island". You can only transport planes with it. One of my Allied opponents tried to use Long Island to provide CAP during an invasion and he was very surprised and disappointed to find out that his fighters just sat on the ship while I was sinking it.

This isn't correct. You can fly combat missions from Long Island. I've used it for CAP and I recall that Q-Ball used it for CAP in his game vs. Cuttlefish. I also think you can fly SBDs from it (and presumably torpedo bombers too) as long as you don't exceed the limit of aircraft.

exactly - no problem here either - you just have to find a group that fits...

[ADB123]

ORIGINAL: SoliInvictus202

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

ORIGINAL: ADB123



You CAN'T fly combat missions off of the "Lost Island". You can only transport planes with it. One of my Allied opponents tried to use Long Island to provide CAP during an invasion and he was very surprised and disappointed to find out that his fighters just sat on the ship while I was sinking it.

This isn't correct. You can fly combat missions from Long Island. I've used it for CAP and I recall that Q-Ball used it for CAP in his game vs. Cuttlefish. I also think you can fly SBDs from it (and presumably torpedo bombers too) as long as you don't exceed the limit of aircraft.

exactly - no problem here either - you just have to find a group that fits...

Okay, that's news to me. Whenever I've transferred combat air groups to CVs where Long Island is in range LI always shows up as being unable to accept the planes.

[Canoerebel]

Long Island has a limit of 16, which you can exceed a bit, but if you try to send a 27- or 36-aircraft squadron to her it will be "red out" as you'd be exceeding the space limit by too much.
 
(Sorry for the hijack here).

[witpqs]

Maybe the confusion is that you can put single-engine non-carrier capable aircraft onto carriers, but they can't fly combat missions. They can only fly off to a land base (transfer).

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: ADB123

3. We'll get 3 only CVEs+ the Long Island by mid june 43

You CAN'T fly combat missions off of the "Lost Island". You can only transport planes with it. One of my Allied opponents tried to use Long Island to provide CAP during an invasion and he was very surprised and disappointed to find out that his fighters just sat on the ship while I was sinking it.

Yep, I second that. I used it for a squadron of dauntless DB for asw and scouting. Until it ate a few torpedoes that is.

[Mistmatz]

If you are sure you can hold Karachi until he begins to withdraw from India (which he has to at some point in time) I would consider only taking Ceylon and threaten his retreat. This might lure KB into the Indian Ocean and give you more operational freedom in the Pacific.

You will never get ahead of time reconquering India and Burma, this is only a mop up theater. In the Pacific though you can try to strike earlier and deeper if India is becoming a liability to the empire.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Aleutians - Since it is Nov 42, you face winter ground combat effects. Anything you want to do up here will have to wait until March 43. You can start moving assets up there now to move forward after winter is over. Like Canoerebel, Dan, has done this area can be a very strong area to operate from, but may be nothing more than a secondary front.


Central Pacific - A move into this area needs to be quick as KB is now at Truk and can react in very short amount of time. Any invasion here has to allow a quick build up of bases to allow land base air to carry the war on. The question here will be getting follow up forces (troops, planes, and supplies) in with minimal losses. This area is more a tactical filed of battle vs a strategic one, IMO.

South Pacific and Solomons - You are already here and can use this for steady attrition of his forces. I would keep the pressure on here, but not make it your main focus. Like the Central Pacific, it is of tactical significance only.

NE Australia and New Guinea - I would be building up Cooktown and then Portland Roads to be able to suppress Port Moresby. Again, I would rely on being able to do as much as I could with land base air power due to the number of warships you have lost to this point. Before I invaded PM, I would probably have an invasion take place in the Gilbert to draw KB away and just have to deal with his Nell/Betty from Rabaul (I hope). This area would tighten the noose around Rabaul and then allow you to slide up the southern side of New Guinea towards the SRA.

Northern Australia - I would be focusing here, as he has to respond. You can use the massive numbers of transport planes to supply any armor thrust up the middle like Andy Mac did and and make short hooks around the coast to take bases. Since I haven't read anything in your AAR about this area, I would need more info on what is there on both sides. Your 4e bombers should be able to close down multiple bases. This would give you a third axis to advance from (India and Solomons).

India - You will need to hold Karachi at all cost, but trying to counter invade that close to that amount of force involves too much risk unless he is forced to send troops and planes somewhere else before it happens. This may happen later, but moving out from Australia may allow this to happen later.

In summary, I would be attacking out of Australia in the near future (6 month or so) and keep him tied down to India to allow you freedom to hit him somewhere else.

Comments from GJ and others.......

Tomorrow i'll reply in detail cause i do like the clean "order" of this kind of analysis (order that i always seem to translate into chaos )

For the moment we've done another turn...God, almost falling asleep...it's very late here...

Nov 8, 9 1942

Another "usual turn" at Karachi. 300 sweeps (200 Tojos and 100 A6M2s and Oscars).
Seems that he's using again the A6M2s...which may mean he has run short of the "3" model...after the horrible losses he has suffered i think... the "air2air" was again a 2-1 in my favour (30 against 60) but the considering op losses we got a 1,5-1... so again...too harsh to sustain[:-].
My Pilots are reaching really some incredible skills...with almost every single spit pilot above 20kils and all of them eligible for the TRACOM[:D].

we bombed Multan again and the base should be not operative for another couple of days. he's not moving yet from there, cause he's concentrating in reducing Ralpawindi now (some 20 units moving there).

He sent again 9 DDs leaded by 1 CL...we had a force of 5 DDs, with the best captains and the best british leader i could find...they didn't achieve surprise but they crossed the T at 2000 yards[:o]....my british DDs never seem to have any will to use their torps...result? one of mine on the bottom, while the whole enemy fleet run away without a scratch...only after sinking 2 AKs full of supplies[:@].

The morning after the enemy fleet was far away (8hexes south)...then it happened that the combat replay tells me that my beauforts didn't find any target or aborted while the combat report shows that we had bombed with heavy damage a jap CL...cannot know which is the good report to look at but i like to think we got something in return of the last DD gone in defence of Karachi...

We heard also the sound of a mine...we've mined Colombo and Palembang...hopefully something got hit [:D]

In the pacific the KB moved back to Truk, while his subs are keeping a strong ring of fire around the Solomons...nothing can get in or get out...at least 25 of them are there and my Air ASW doesn't seem to do anything better than my naval search [:(]...i'll have to wait before doing anything here...don't have enough ASW ships to cover any convoy to resupply Lunga for the moment and i don't wanna throw away my transports that are harmless against his super subs [:-]

The first convoy with tanks have left PH...direction SF...then by rail to EC and then UK....[8D]

I'm also moving engineers to Perth so that i can start to build NW OZ...while for northern Oz i still have to understand how it can be done without a secure naval sea lane...

...ok guys...really falling asleep...tomorrow i'll have plenty of time to discuss everything...

sorry and thanks again

nite

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

If rader does that and then just waits for your eventual counteroffensive then he is insane.  Since he's not insane, he won't do that.

He either needs to back off gradually starting soon or he needs to plop his army atop yours at Karachi, then pin it in place with perhaps 5,000 AV while seeing to the evactuation of most of the rest of his troops and preparing to go on the defensive.  (But if he does that, he's going to lost alot of that 5,000 AV when he finally has to retreat,  as you'll be able to follow and strike and destroy much of that army).

If you let yourself, you'll talk yourself out of every operation.  Don't let your fears get the best of you.  Use reasonable caution, devise and implement good plans, and then resolutely proceed.

India is your best battleground.  Not because rader poses a threat to you now, but because you can sink your teeth into the greatest number, and eventually the most vulnerable, mass of Japanese forces there.  So your first priority needs to be India.  And you have to choose a beachhead that you can successfully invade.  Don't take chances on invasion of a heavily defended base, even if it's one that you want or can best use.  Search around, find one that is reasonably feasible, and then figure out how to take it and how to exploit out of it quickly and effectively.  If that means you have to move down the coast to Goa, Mangaore, or even Calicut, so be it.  Better there than getting thwarted at Surat (though Surat is your best choice if rader leaves it unprotected).

You need to have one or two follow up operations far away - invasions that are likely to suceed in the vacuum if rader commits the KB to the Arabian Sea again. 

You also need to establish some maskirovkas.  For instance, buildng up ships and troops and airfields to threaten the Kuriles or New Guinea or Oz or Timor.  Anywhere that you can credibly create the perception that you intend to strike, and can feed that perception by parking important (but spare) capital ships and transports there.  By basing planes there.  By having subs and recon operating from there.  By building bases.  That takes thought and time, so you have to get started now.

The Solomons can be one such maskirvoka.  You've already got his full attention.  Halt any further major offensive plans since he's obviously aware and aroused.  Moving into the teeth of a gale doesn't make sense.  But having tons of activity at your present bases will feed his perceptions.  And you can nibble off some nearby, low risk dot hexes and begin building those too.  Such a great buildup will continue to draw his attention and forces.

Meanwhile, you'll be preparing to hit India plus smaller raids on Wake or the Gilberts or whatever.

Yes, these feints (maskirvoka) are exactly what i need.

The problem is to be "credible".
I'll so start with building NW Oz , as NY59G has said, starting from Exmouth. He'll noticie it because exmouth is still a "red" dot base.

At the same time we'll build up Portland Roads and Cooktown in NE Oz and we'll keep to build up our Solomons perimeter reinforcing it.

I'm also considering conquering with a couple of Infantry companies one of the Ellice Islands (North of Pago pago) and place there an AVD in order to operate a group of Cats so to give him the constant feeling that his perimeter is getting smaller everywhere.

And, in the meanwhile, i'll prepare for the "Big Jump". I still consider Surat or Bedawathever the best two places to land in India. Both have a level 9 AF and they are clean terrain, plus the relative proximity to the wormhole makes them the "safest" place to land. Going much southwards will mean expose my whole fleet to a longer threat of his Netties and give more time for his KB to eventually come in and squander my plans. So surprise and a fast pace are crucial for this operation.
And even if Surat is decently defended...well, with all his eggs at Karachi trying to reduce my 9500 AVs (yup, we got 500 more AVs due to upgrading and replacements), i don't think there will be much to counter a 4000 AVs allied counter invasion...plus i'll have LOTS of tanks that could operate in the "clean terrain" of Surat...

The main problem remains the CVs which are not strong enough to hope to defend against the whole KB equipped with A6M5s.
After reading PzB-Andy Mac AAR and what happened to Castor roy and Freeboy against Zeta, i do come to the conclusion that my best best won't be to place a huge number of fighters on CAP...they'll got through anyway!...i have to considerate my CVs as lost...but i need to use them in order to harm HIS own CVs and if CAP is not waterproof for the allies, same goes for the Japs...My CVs will be called to sacrifice themself, giving the landing fleet enough time to deliver the package (land the invasion army at surat) looking for a decisive engagement with the KB with the only and clear intent to damage or sink some of his priceless Carriers and so forcing him to focus on my CVs, rather than on my landing fleet. If i manage to conquer Surat and land my 4000 AVs there...well i think he'll have a hell of a time to retreat from Karachi in good order[:)]

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Aleutians - Since it is Nov 42, you face winter ground combat effects. Anything you want to do up here will have to wait until March 43. You can start moving assets up there now to move forward after winter is over. Like Canoerebel, Dan, has done this area can be a very strong area to operate from, but may be nothing more than a secondary front.

Well, i think i can advance till Attu Island without any risk and start building the bases around it. This should contribute to make him feel some pressure even in the deep north and, at the same time, prepare a good starting base for any possible operations for 1943.

Central Pacific - A move into this area needs to be quick as KB is now at Truk and can react in very short amount of time. Any invasion here has to allow a quick build up of bases to allow land base air to carry the war on. The question here will be getting follow up forces (troops, planes, and supplies) in with minimal losses. This area is more a tactical filed of battle vs a strategic one, IMO.

I do think we have to change the tactic here. I can no longer allow myself to go overconfident. Need to move as the KB was always ready to smash me. So smaller vassels, feewer troops, maybe a less fast advance but with less risks.
For the moment we'll limit ourself in some small background operations. We'll base some engineers at Rannell Island and the steward Islands...in order to fortify my perimeter and follow the Beppi's suggestions.
Considering that my big xAPs and xAKs will be used to move my indian counter invasion army to the UK, we'll use in this area mainly xAKLs and the small xAPs (those with 4000 endurance)...so eventually their lost won't be a tragedy.

South Pacific and Solomons - You are already here and can use this for steady attrition of his forces. I would keep the pressure on here, but not make it your main focus. Like the Central Pacific, it is of tactical significance only.

Ops, i inverted the theatres...however in CentPac i still have the Tarawa invasion plan to be completed...my little invasion force is still ready at Christmas Island, waiting for the right moment to get to Tarawa unseen and possibly with the KB confirmed somehwere else...Tarawa for the moment will be the only real target (it should still be almost undefended and not built up). But i'm not in hurry anymore for this...i can wait...think i'll let things slow down a bit here...so that when i'll arrive i'll achieve a total surprise.

NE Australia and New Guinea - I would be building up Cooktown and then Portland Roads to be able to suppress Port Moresby. Again, I would rely on being able to do as much as I could with land base air power due to the number of warships you have lost to this point. Before I invaded PM, I would probably have an invasion take place in the Gilbert to draw KB away and just have to deal with his Nell/Betty from Rabaul (I hope). This area would tighten the noose around Rabaul and then allow you to slide up the southern side of New Guinea towards the SRA..

Yup, totally agree. Building up CookTown right now and Portland Roads as soon as i manage to get some seebees to Oz (matters of days now)

Northern Australia - I would be focusing here, as he has to respond. You can use the massive numbers of transport planes to supply any armor thrust up the middle like Andy Mac did and and make short hooks around the coast to take bases. Since I haven't read anything in your AAR about this area, I would need more info on what is there on both sides. Your 4e bombers should be able to close down multiple bases. This would give you a third axis to advance from (India and Solomons)...

I'll post a screenshot right away.... however the situation is more or less the same of 12.07.1941...except that i evacuated all the fighting units from Darwin back to Alice Spring when, in Jan, it seemed that Rader wanted to invade Oz...then i didn't redeploy cause i could not send any supplies there and i would have left my men there to rot.
Now i'll try to get to Darwin slowly, by building up the NW of Oz, starting from Exmouth...already moving ships and engineers to Perth. it will be slow but i agree that my presence there cannot be ignored by Rader.

India - You will need to hold Karachi at all cost, but trying to counter invade that close to that amount of force involves too much risk unless he is forced to send troops and planes somewhere else before it happens. This may happen later, but moving out from Australia may allow this to happen later. ...

I think i can hold Karachi at least till june 1943. I think he'll need at least one year to reduce a base with 9500 AVs and 9 forts.
At the same time i agree that i need to draw some of his assets somewhere (Timor or Rabaul) in order to reduce the risks of a counterinvasion...but i do see now that a counterinvasion is a MUST. If i don't counterinvade in the long run there's not way Karachi can free itself alone...the city needs an aid from the outside and the more i wait the less supplies will be left there...i cannot risk of losing the entire theatre...have to try to save it.


Thanks!

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

As for CAP, my experience to this point, and without the latest beta patch installed, is that the best Allied CAP and AA isn't sufficient to stop enemy bombers from hitting my carriers.  Even with 500 Hellcats vs. a clearly overwhelmed enemy strike package, leakers will get through and create mischief.  So, no, seven carriers isn't sufficient against the full KB.  But you don't want to face the full KB.

Which are the differences concerning AA and CAP between the official and the latest betas patches? We're using the beta....

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I find the hellcat to be an overall great fighter for 1943. It eats up tojos, tonys, and jacks and is slightly better than the george. And, there is no type of Japanese carrier fighter that can come close to it. If Rader collects his wits and gives up the sacrifice of his air force you will need every one of them in 1943. With PUD on and a Japanese player on top of production you will just not have enough army fighters. I found myself frequently putting carrier based airgroups ashore as fire brigades where they did an excellent job. And the hellcat is the one fighter produced (1943) in numbers enough to replace large losses.

well watching the production numbers when the Hellcat will enter into production i think i'll make a party! 130 monthly!?!?!?...that's a dream....

Consider that now i dream about having a single marine wildcats squadron at Karachi...i would really need those 45 monthly wildcats there...while i only have army fighter groups in India[:o].

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

If you are sure you can hold Karachi until he begins to withdraw from India (which he has to at some point in time) I would consider only taking Ceylon and threaten his retreat. This might lure KB into the Indian Ocean and give you more operational freedom in the Pacific.

You will never get ahead of time reconquering India and Burma, this is only a mop up theater. In the Pacific though you can try to strike earlier and deeper if India is becoming a liability to the empire.

I'm just sure i can hold Karachi untill june 43...so when i'll be able to try to send a good number of supplies there...but i'm not sure he's going to retreat anytime soon...he keeps on advancing and now with Multan...sooner or later he'll get there.

I don't even hope to get in time for Burma...have to abbandon the RL timeline...but i want to exploit his overcommitment in India!

[GreyJoy]

Good Lord...take a look at the two spitfires squadrons based at Karachi...

[String]

i think you should withdraw those groups to save those good pilots.

[GreyJoy]

Those pilots will be moved out of action as soon as i run out of spits. With those machines, these crack pilots are alone keeping up the fight against an overwhelming enemy and their survivability rate is very good so i'm really losing few of them...
Also without their efforts, Karachi now would be only a crater of ruins...while the fortress is still fighting and biting back

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: String
i think you should withdraw those groups to save those good pilots.

I don't understand this advice. India is the critical battle of the game, and GJ is bleeding rader badly there. Why in the world would he pull his best pilots from the most important battle? To save them for a less important battle later? [&:]

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

These are my two squadrons equipped with Spitfires... These guys improved so much during the last months of the Karachi defence

Take a look at this screenshot of the 23rd october.... you see how much those guys have improved in 20 days of heavy fightings (consider that they fight every day against 200/250 tojos and more 100/150 zeros-oscars with an inferiority number of 1-5 at best)... they are very hard to kill and they deliver havoc among the attackers!

[witpqs]

I am actually surprised that their Air Skill has risen so slowly in comparison to their Experience.

[GreyJoy]

When you reach 70 in air skill i have noticed that it's very very difficult to move any further...same goes for defensive skill...while the experience really goes up fast with so many kills in the bag