How to treat combat animations and combat report as a source of information

[crsutton]

Yep, you don't know the pleasure to watch your ship get hit by torpedoes in the replay only to find out that it is untouched when you load up the turn. It is like coming back awake after a near death experience...[:D] In the main, combat reports are fairly reliable but sometimes they are not. But if you see multiple hits on a ship, you can be fairly sure you have messed it up a bit. One thing, it seems to me that when the combat report records a "hit" and penetration on a sub, it seems like is is always true.

FOW is one of the great features of this game.

[offenseman]

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Also there were already a couple of reported torpedo hits on warships on different occasions
(also shown in combat animations) where the targeted ship was not even dented, so I assume
the hit was FOW.

I'd be interested if the reverse were true. If a torpedo miss in the anims might actually be a hit in some cases. It is certainly possible that a sub might fail to notice a hit in real circumstances such as having to crash dive and avoid a DD. Missing the explosion might be more difficult but some explosions might be missed under certain circumstances.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: offenseman

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Also there were already a couple of reported torpedo hits on warships on different occasions
(also shown in combat animations) where the targeted ship was not even dented, so I assume
the hit was FOW.

I'd be interested if the reverse were true. If a torpedo miss in the anims might actually be a hit in some cases. It is certainly possible that a sub might fail to notice a hit in real circumstances such as having to crash dive and avoid a DD. Missing the explosion might be more difficult but some explosions might be missed under certain circumstances.

I recently had during the reply the message "xxx bombers unable to locate the target due to range or weather conditions"....so no naval bombing attack occurred during the reply....however in the combat report those bombers were reported to have reached and hit the target (a japanese CL)

[offenseman]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

One thing, it seems to me that when the combat report records a "hit" and penetration on a sub, it seems like is is always true.

FOW is one of the great features of this game.

My impression of the first paragraph is the same as yours. Subs fog does seem to be less dense than for surface vessel.

and... FOW is definitely one of the best things about the game. I like the mental challenge of planning for best and worst case for each event.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: offenseman

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Also there were already a couple of reported torpedo hits on warships on different occasions
(also shown in combat animations) where the targeted ship was not even dented, so I assume
the hit was FOW.

I'd be interested if the reverse were true. If a torpedo miss in the anims might actually be a hit in some cases. It is certainly possible that a sub might fail to notice a hit in real circumstances such as having to crash dive and avoid a DD. Missing the explosion might be more difficult but some explosions might be missed under certain circumstances.

Well, if a torpedo explodes it make a big noise-especially if you are in a sub underwater. It is hard to miss. The problem is there are a lot of detonations going on such as sympathetic explosions and torps cooking off at the end of a run. So, hits were typically over reported. But basically if the torpedo did hit they would have been aware of it and reported it as so. I would think that the chances of a sub not hearing and reporting a hit to be very slim. But not unheard of.

It is true that many times ship captains were hit by torpedoes and reported it as a mine and the opposite as well. That would add some FOW.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

FOW is one of the great features of this game.

+1

Could be the biggest differentiator compared to other games ... not only having FOW, but it 'feels' like real FOW. Some things are close, and some are just wildly off ... just like RL.

[crsutton]

Yep, I spent 40 years playing board games and as good as some of them were, it was almost impossible to really institute FOW. Computers changed all of that.

[AW1Steve]

How to treat combat animations? Ignore them, they'll go away![:D]

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve



Combat animations lie! [:D] My favorite showed an I boat torpedoing Nautilas (with 3 fish!!!). That sub was in dry dock , 6,000 miles away. I lost no sub that day, sufferded no attacks of any kind. Lost no subs (of any kind). For that matter , I had no ships attacked that day. It was made up of whole cloth![:D]


Obviously the game was channeling what I call "The Sake factor!".[:D]

I think that this report came from our abortive GC, Steve-if I'm not mistaken.

We had a number of technical glitches that precluded our completion of that game, so I'm wondering if this was one iteration of the borkulated or at least buggy game that we were playing.

But yeah, I remember that CR too...[:D]

[Chickenboy]

The Combat Report is (or should be) the same for both sides.  It lies like a rug re: exact losses.  I think the combat replay is closer to the truth for A2A, ASW, SCTF and other 'blow by blow' exchanges.  The final arbiter for me is the turn's intel screen-that's the gospel truth for my losses.  The intel screen (as far as I understand) is subject to FOW for the enemy losses too.

[inqistor]

ORIGINAL: LoBaron
On CR being identical for both sides thats news to me. Did you make comparisions?

Nope, however:
When you run a turn, in your save folder should be several new "j", and "a" (Ops, SigInt etc.) text files. There should be txt files with date, and current turn - without date. However, there is only ONE Combat Report file. So unless they are randomized during reading in-game, report should be identical for both sides.

As a side note, I have seen this in few AARs, daily aircraft loses can be HIGHER, than overall loses for this plane model. So it seems there is FOW for daily loses, and different FOW for overall loses.

[dr.hal]

One thing I find strange about the game's FOW is the fact that during the animation, the target ship's name is stated, even with subs! Now some ships can be IDed by their unusual profile, etc... but if there is a class of ships, how can a pilot or ship commander know the name? Does the FOW include names in the animation? If I'm attacking I-30, is it indeed I-30???

[dr.hal]

Something that folks have not talked about is the intel screens victory points.... here is something I usually believe as I've never seen them "go down".... lets say a CV is hit, that's over 300 points, a big jump, but almost always the VPs don't budge...until the sinking is confirmed by the home government.... or am I missing things yet again???

[LoBaron]

ORIGINAL: inqistor
As a side note, I have seen this in few AARs, daily aircraft loses can be HIGHER, than overall loses for this plane model. So it seems there is FOW for daily loses, and different FOW for overall loses.

Just because daily losses may be higher than overall losses that does not signal a FOW for daily losses. FOW for overrall losses would be enough. [;)]
Not that believe this is the case.

[inqistor]

Yeah, and speaking of FoW, I find it weird, that suddenly you discover, that TWO DAYS AFTER BATTLE your enemy CV sank, because you can see massive ground loses for CV planes.

Especially, when you have no units in the area. Friendly fishermen found parts of wings in water?

[LoBaron]

Interesting point, the game being capable of increasing FOW influence on those occasions would be a nice addition.

OTOH, op losses of CV capable AC does not neccesarily mean a ship sunk but just a ship with a closed flight deck.
And you have to assume that pilots ditching report this over radio, and in vincinity of enemy ships these radio signals would be picked up.

[Erkki]

I believe that the combat animation is accurate when it comes to aircraft vs. aircraft action - every destroyed plane is a kill, and any damaged one might become one, so one can count minimum losses for both sides. However, when the planes attack ships or other targets... I'm playing only my first PBEM, but I have already seen an SBD place a 500lbs bomb on CV Hiryu, where later in combat animation it was Kaga that was burning, Soryi in the combat report, and in reality it was Akagi. [:D] Also seen B-17s that bomb my field only get 3 or 4 planes in the combat animation, but as damaged ones might become kills(as OPS losses at least), my casualties might be even double the number reported in combat animation and up to 4-5 times greater than the combat report figure.