The Power of Inexperience / GreyJoy(A)-Rader(J)

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GreyJoy
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1943: I WANT TO BELIEVE

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: dekwik

Perhaps the Oz coast shipping will be safer sent to autodisband in the minor ports like Bundaberg, Port Kembala etc?

Taking Mare island (??) by sub sounds like he's trying to psych you out. It'll be worth taking it back just to hear the Marine cheer in the combat replay!

Since it sounds like everything is designed to suck dry your plane pools especially your fighters, maybe you have no choice but to "refuse" the combat by withdrawing ships and air groups for a few months until you can fight on even terms? That means Lunga will get pounded from the air too pretty soon but since you have good forts and supplies, invading there sounds like a bad idea for Japan.

Working on the theory that he can't be every where, maybe consider the early war tactic of using a handful of small STFs (even a single modern CL with long legs or a couple of modern DDs) that can slip through the gaps into his supply areas. You wouldn't be risking too too much, and the payoff might be significant if it forced him to react. If nothing else it will make the game a bit more fun for you!

If you DO get into LR CAPing of PM or Lunga, it used to be the case in vanilla WITP and I think the same in AE that subs in the ocean hexes on the flight path cut down on your pilot losses, although as you said that's not been a major issue yet.

Fight the good fight!

That small naval force unit on that un-named dot island has been pushed back by my NZ paras.. why would he land a naval guard unit there is out of my comprehension....[&:]

His shipping lines are all well protected by his naval search assets...i discovered that with my subs...there seems to be no way to get there without being spotted....

Retire for few months?...don't know...sincerly it doesn't fit me well this option...now with 1943 i'll start getting better equipment...and my will to fight remains strong... i really don't like the idea of simply falling back leaving my troops defenceless...
aztez
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RE: 1943: I WANT TO BELIEVE

Post by aztez »

Keep things simple and aggressive.

1) Train your pilots and do NOT throw away quality fighters for no gains.
2) He has fighters.. you get a lot of bombers. Thus move those where you can bomb his airfields into dust.
3) Advance where you can have mutually supporting bases. At least 1.. but +2 prefered.

To be honest I don't know whether Marianas route is viable much longer. He has dug in and most likely have forts and troops there in thousands.

Once you get solid carrier groups. Try to hunt down the KB. You need to "kill it".

When that force is gone you have more options and he doesn't.

Just do not lay low for 1943. He can freely build forts and with those extra troops he has you will get screwed.

Definately do NOT retire for months in your situation. As said bomb, bomb, bomb and than some.

As for PM well you might be screwed there no matter what you do.
aztez
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RE: 1943: I WANT TO BELIEVE

Post by aztez »

Oh.. and if CenPac / Southern Pacific are getting build up strongly by Rader.

Than start preparing for imminent landings at Northern Japan and those islands. Make that assault so strong that his head will spin.

That would be my advice.. but as said you need to "kill" KB as soon as viable. Any means necessary.
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GreyJoy
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RE: 1943: I WANT TO BELIEVE

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: aztez

Keep things simple and aggressive.

1) Train your pilots and do NOT throw away quality fighters for no gains.
2) He has fighters.. you get a lot of bombers. Thus move those where you can bomb his airfields into dust.
3) Advance where you can have mutually supporting bases. At least 1.. but +2 prefered.

To be honest I don't know whether Marianas route is viable much longer. He has dug in and most likely have forts and troops there in thousands.

Once you get solid carrier groups. Try to hunt down the KB. You need to "kill it".

When that force is gone you have more options and he doesn't.

Just do not lay low for 1943. He can freely build forts and with those extra troops he has you will get screwed.

Definately do NOT retire for months in your situation. As said bomb, bomb, bomb and than some.

As for PM well you might be screwed there no matter what you do.

You say bomb...i know...but my bombers pools are almost dry...and as soon as i create a "bomber base" he comes with 300 fighters sweeping, followed by 350 LBA bombers and the KB's ones...and there ends my bombing campaign. The idea was to build up bombers base in NE coast of Oz...we just saw what happened. If i cannot defend my bases, bombers become a target themselfs...and the numbers of fighters he can put in the air are so big that even 100 4Es won't close the base...they'll get clobbered...The memory of what happened in India remains strong in my mind...120 Crack 4Es were annihilated by CAP and flak...
B-25s and B-26s are simply out of question...they are so delicate that they fall in droves if any CAP is present...and the replacement rate is so little that only a couple of bad mission will dry the pools.

Hunt the KB? yes...easier said than done. I'll try to hunt it but i bet that as soon as i get Hellcats he'll remain in his LBA area...

The Mariannas are for sure a NO-NO right now. I have evidence that those are heavily fortified since day 1...no, the only way i see is coming up through NG...but to do that i need PM and a huge number of 4Es...and i don't have neither of them right now.

I just need to be patient i think...considering PM lost i need to focus on the Solomons and on the Gilberts opportunity
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SoliInvictus202
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RE: 1943: I WANT TO BELIEVE

Post by SoliInvictus202 »

indeed - going up NG is the "safest" way! - that's why the Allied chose it in the first place


another thing - remember as long as he has all his FLAK in India (which you might wanna make sure) he cannot have them elsewhere - the Japanese only get a certain number of "decent" FLAK units - other stuff is mostly "machine gun coy" etc... which only help when you're strafing which you aren't...

aztez
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RE: 1943: I WANT TO BELIEVE

Post by aztez »

You should have steady replacements coming up in respect of bombers.

Just don't waste fighters and bombers on fights they can't win or makes no diffrence.

If you mass 80-100E bombers into one target than that airfield will go boom!

That is the allied advantage you will have in later years.

I meant that Marianas might not be the route in this game period... not now, not ever.

I'am not convinced that going through Solomons is worth the efforts either. Ofcourse duel there but start thinking where you will send your main hammer... unless you have not done that well you be screwed in 1944 too. You need supplies transfered etc etc etc.

As for KB.. well hard as it may it is definately worth it.
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GreyJoy
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RE: 1943: I WANT TO BELIEVE

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: SoliInvictus202

indeed - going up NG is the "safest" way! - that's why the Allied chose it in the first place


another thing - remember as long as he has all his FLAK in India (which you might wanna make sure) he cannot have them elsewhere - the Japanese only get a certain number of "decent" FLAK units - other stuff is mostly "machine gun coy" etc... which only help when you're strafing which you aren't...


I'm sure his best Flak is still in India. However 100+ zeros on CAP can ruin my 4Es day, no matter how strong they are. I've already experimented it...he'll suffer ground losses, no doubt about that, but my groups will need weeks of rest after one raid like that and pools dry fast.

Artez...yes, i'm thinking about that. NG is the safest way imho, cause Timor and the southern DEI are strongly fortified and lots of AFs built up at their max...however i'm already sending to Perth Seabees and base forces. Soon we'll start building the NW of Oz in order to open another future front.

However remember that we still have India to re-open. Plans are developing and units are moving towards UK and CT
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RE: 1943: I WANT TO BELIEVE

Post by ADB123 »

and as soon as i create a "bomber base" he comes with 300 fighters sweeping, followed by 350 LBA bombers and the KB's ones...and there ends my bombing campaign.

Why don't you take a look at what I did in the Indo-Burma region in my Allied pbem? I didn't build "one" bomber base; I built a Dozen. I built my main bomber bases inland where his Bombardment TFs can't hit. I built my bomber bases on Railroad lines where I could move planes in and out without losing any. My opponent tried bringing in the KB... he lost Naval Attack planes and accomplished zip. I'm happily pushing southwards in January 1943 and bombing where I please. He brings in Tojos, I send out P-38s and 4Es. I've been enjoying the results.

At the same time I did the exact same thing in Eastern Oz. Once my Air Bases were up to Level 4 I started to bomb his bases in northeastern Oz. He moved out quickly.

So send out the hordes of Engineers that you have and build up clusters of bases simultaneously. You've got a foothold in the eastern Solomons, build up EVERY base, dot or not. He has only so many planes and ships.

As far as his subs go, send out 4-DD ASW TFs and hunt the subs aggressively. If your CVs are sitting in Port, you've got nothing better to do with your DDs, and as a bonus they are almost impossible for the KB to hunt and hit.

BTW - as far as northwestern Oz goes, build up ALL of the bases there. Once again, the more bases, the better. Plan what you want to be doing in June 1943, not two turns from now.

Good luck.
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GreyJoy
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RE: 1943: I WANT TO BELIEVE

Post by GreyJoy »

That's what i've been trying to do in the Solomons ABD...building up a chain of mutual supportive bases...i managed to build 5 of them at decent levels...but those bases now need supplies and aviation support...and to bring those stuff there you need ships, not just C-47s...and ships got sunk if i don't cover them with fighters...and fighters got shot down by his mighty air force when i move them in...
Anyway, i'm not losing hope. On NW Oz i'm already moving ships and engineers...but it takes time to get there from WC...

Yes, i need to dispatch some aggressive DD TFs...no other choice...and need to support their activity with some good Air ASW...i'm trying to close the gap there...thanks!

I read your AAR mate...you're doing defenetly better than me...and it's a bit discouraging to compare how the allies do there and how badly they suffer here...

There's another thing...2-days-turn really changes things for what concerns ambushes...the KB can move 17/18 hexes per day...so it means that she can be everywhere the next turn...the risk of getting your bombers mauled on the ground is very very high... In India i was saved by the Spits VIII...he didn't dare anymore to face them with the KB and went away...but that was close...

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Erkki
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RE: 1943: I WANT TO BELIEVE

Post by Erkki »

This game is nearly exact opposite of my game, me playing the Japanese.

I failed to capture even Rangoon, facing probably half a million Brits, Aussies, Indians and Chinese. Then I failed to secure the Solomons, used 4 months to secure just Java, and my offensive in China stalled after 3 months, to lack of supplies, troops for garrison requirements and a massive Chinese counter offensive of 10-ish Corps.

Sinking 3 American CVs(to no Japanese loss) and a ridiculous number of cruisers(at least 18), destroyers(at least 44) and other ships(including at least 3 BBs) as well as leading 1,5:1 in aircraft losses(111 4Es downed in July 42), I feel like I dont have enough troops to fight even the Chinese, let alone secure the DEI, Burma and NG, all simultaneously.

Japanese might be on the top initially, but they cant really afford to make mistakes, and have very, very strict invasion schedule. Rader of course is a very experienced player, compared to my incompetence. [:D]

But even he cant be everywhere.
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ny59giants
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RE: 1943: I WANT TO BELIEVE

Post by ny59giants »

SLOC issues

Christmas Island maxed out by now and you can move supplies and fuel from USA to there and not need to refuel to get back. A PBY for Naval Search and aan Army bomber squadron used for ASW patrol only.

Penrhyn Island have the port expanded to size 3 and hopefully the AF to size 1 or 2. Place a PBY group here.

If needed, Bora Bora, Tahiti, and/or Nuka Hive (Marguesas Islands) should be maxed out and be a fuel supply depot to get stuff to Australia eventually. Each can reach the magic "9" to prevent spoilage in total size.

ASW TF - I would form multiple TF to patrol from these bases with 1 DD and 2 or 3 SC. The DD has radar and sonar to find the subs. Plus, you don't have enough DDs to spare for 4 ship ASW TF. You get plenty of SC to use in this role.

Use your Navy PB4Y in the role of ASW and Naval Search if you are getting too many losses from your PBY groups.

Your opponent is able to use massive amounts of planes to overwhelm you in a particular area all at once. The numbers he has in the Solomons area and India would have me believe that he is very thin in other areas.

OT - Where you able to get significant British TKs to the USA before they were isolated in Adaban and Aden??
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GreyJoy
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RE: 1943: I WANT TO BELIEVE

Post by GreyJoy »

Ok, few considerations...

PM may be lost. In fact i think it's doomed, but the battle for NG has just started. Mylne Bay is one of my objectives and Mereuake too. But first i need to get enough air power in the NE coast of Oz in order to be able to defend against these damned KB raids. I have 2 divisions, 1 Combat Eng Rgt and 2 para units prepping for Mylne...but cannot risk a landing under these conditions...

Tarawa...yes, i have the troops...i have the ships...but i foresee a slaughter there...he has 4 AFs built up to lvl 4 or 5 in Zero/Netties range, plus the KB which is 1 or 2 turns (2 or 4 days) of travel at flank speed close. My CVs will have their hands tied cause they'll be devoted to protect the transports (and the fleet is huge...cannot hope to land in 1 turn everything i need) and for sure Rader will put the KB 8 hexes distant...

No...don't wanna make these idiocies no more. Will wait for Hellcats (just 4 months away) and will keep on seeking the right opportunity (which could be the KB raiding Oz or the Solomons) to use my CVs (so to say having his CVs away from his LBA umbrella).

In the meanwhile we'll move troops and supplies to western Oz. Need to start building there.

Always in the meanwhile, we'll move troops and ships to UK and CT...we have to be ready by june 1943 to jump to Aden...

In NOPAC we've just ended the re-conquest of the Aleutinas...slowly building a decent chain of bases.

I decided to divert some assets to CENTPAC in order to create a corridor of safety for my ships against his subs.

This corridor will be patrolled constantly by 2 groups of 12 Catalinas (one starting from Pago Pago with a very restricted and small arch, and one starting from Christimas Island). In the middle of this corridor i'm building up a patrol base (don't remember the name), filled with an AVP ship, supplies, and 2 groups of KingFishers. Fuel will be delivered from PM in order to make 2 ASW TF operate from this base.
If this system works the idea is to expand this "corridors" in the whole pacific, creating 100% subs-free areas in my communication lines.

Scraping every one of my pools i managed to obtain a so-called bombing force at Luganville, composed of 40 "old" B-17Ds, 20 B-24s, 12 B-17Fs and some 60 B-25s... The idea is not to use them for the moment...and wait till i have at least a full 25 planes squadron of P-38Gs...then move them all to Lunga and start reducing his Bouganville bases, with sweeps of P-38s, followed by 100/150 bombers... let's see if i can do this at least...

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GreyJoy
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RE: 1943: I WANT TO BELIEVE

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

SLOC issues

Christmas Island maxed out by now and you can move supplies and fuel from USA to there and not need to refuel to get back. A PBY for Naval Search and aan Army bomber squadron used for ASW patrol only.

Penrhyn Island have the port expanded to size 3 and hopefully the AF to size 1 or 2. Place a PBY group here.

If needed, Bora Bora, Tahiti, and/or Nuka Hive (Marguesas Islands) should be maxed out and be a fuel supply depot to get stuff to Australia eventually. Each can reach the magic "9" to prevent spoilage in total size.

ASW TF - I would form multiple TF to patrol from these bases with 1 DD and 2 or 3 SC. The DD has radar and sonar to find the subs. Plus, you don't have enough DDs to spare for 4 ship ASW TF. You get plenty of SC to use in this role.

Use your Navy PB4Y in the role of ASW and Naval Search if you are getting too many losses from your PBY groups.

Your opponent is able to use massive amounts of planes to overwhelm you in a particular area all at once. The numbers he has in the Solomons area and India would have me believe that he is very thin in other areas.

OT - Where you able to get significant British TKs to the USA before they were isolated in Adaban and Aden??

Hi mate!

You read in my mind....that's exactly what i want to do with subs...

How do i use the PB4Y in the role of the PBY? i mean...the latters cannot upgrade to the first ones...and i couldn't find a single USN group that could upgrade to the PB4Ys... i already have 22 of them in my pools but i don't have any group that can fit them...

TKs?...very few...most of them got stuk at Adebadan when the corridor of Scoodra got cut...however i still have a decent numbers of them...my fuel-Supply chain at the moment is: WC-PH-Christmas-Pago Pago-Suva-Noumea-Brisbane....obviously there's too much space between Pago and Christmas and those waters are too dangerous....gonna do that ASAP!

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ny59giants
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RE: 1943: I WANT TO BELIEVE

Post by ny59giants »

PB4Y-1P Liberator VD-1 arrives around 1 Dec 42, but is only for recon, which is very good for you. This is the Navy version of the B-24 and as a heavy bomber will need a large AF.

PB2Y-3 Coronado VP-13 arrives around 8 Jan 43. This is a "super sized" PBY-5 and is great for moving troops, but has tremendous range to perform patrols. Since it is a float plane, can operate from a port with adequate Aviation Support.

PB4Y-1 Liberator VB-104 arrives around 10 Apr 43 and is the first of these to arrive that I can find. Again, these naval B-24s need a large AF to operate from.

I don't think you have any naval bombers that can upgrade to the PB4Y-1 and you will have to wait until April 43 to use them. [:(]
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GreyJoy
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RE: 1943: I WANT TO BELIEVE

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

PB4Y-1P Liberator VD-1 arrives around 1 Dec 42, but is only for recon, which is very good for you. This is the Navy version of the B-24 and as a heavy bomber will need a large AF.

PB2Y-3 Coronado VP-13 arrives around 8 Jan 43. This is a "super sized" PBY-5 and is great for moving troops, but has tremendous range to perform patrols. Since it is a float plane, can operate from a port with adequate Aviation Support.

PB4Y-1 Liberator VB-104 arrives around 10 Apr 43 and is the first of these to arrive that I can find. Again, these naval B-24s need a large AF to operate from.

I don't think you have any naval bombers that can upgrade to the PB4Y-1 and you will have to wait until April 43 to use them. [:(]

Thanks again! As always you are a book of science for me[:)]

Ok, so my PB4Ys pools will, in the meanwhile, grow bigger. I'll have to stick with my catalinas for the time being...but i'm losing a lot of them to attrition with enemy KB CAP...

Looking forward to have the Coronados...wanna really make his subs life unpleasant[8D]
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RE: 1943: I WANT TO BELIEVE

Post by crsutton »

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

SLOC issues

Christmas Island maxed out by now and you can move supplies and fuel from USA to there and not need to refuel to get back. A PBY for Naval Search and aan Army bomber squadron used for ASW patrol only.

Penrhyn Island have the port expanded to size 3 and hopefully the AF to size 1 or 2. Place a PBY group here.

If needed, Bora Bora, Tahiti, and/or Nuka Hive (Marguesas Islands) should be maxed out and be a fuel supply depot to get stuff to Australia eventually. Each can reach the magic "9" to prevent spoilage in total size.

ASW TF - I would form multiple TF to patrol from these bases with 1 DD and 2 or 3 SC. The DD has radar and sonar to find the subs. Plus, you don't have enough DDs to spare for 4 ship ASW TF. You get plenty of SC to use in this role.

Use your Navy PB4Y in the role of ASW and Naval Search if you are getting too many losses from your PBY groups.

Your opponent is able to use massive amounts of planes to overwhelm you in a particular area all at once. The numbers he has in the Solomons area and India would have me believe that he is very thin in other areas.

OT - Where you able to get significant British TKs to the USA before they were isolated in Adaban and Aden??

Hi mate!

You read in my mind....that's exactly what i want to do with subs...

How do i use the PB4Y in the role of the PBY? i mean...the latters cannot upgrade to the first ones...and i couldn't find a single USN group that could upgrade to the PB4Ys... i already have 22 of them in my pools but i don't have any group that can fit them...

TKs?...very few...most of them got stuk at Adebadan when the corridor of Scoodra got cut...however i still have a decent numbers of them...my fuel-Supply chain at the moment is: WC-PH-Christmas-Pago Pago-Suva-Noumea-Brisbane....obviously there's too much space between Pago and Christmas and those waters are too dangerous....gonna do that ASAP!


My memory is a little fuzzy but, if I recall there was one group of catalinas that could convert to the PBY4 in late 42. I had to hunt but I eventually found it. Otherwise you just have to wait for the groups that come in April
but don't fret as any ventura squadron can convert and you will have plenty units soon enough. In fact the risk is converting too many units as the replacement rate is very low.

Once again the coronado only has a one hex normal search range advantage over the cat but is a 4E plane with a 4 service rating. The advantages of the liberator and coronado is durability and defensive armament plus great bomb load but the cat is a much more useful search plane.

The coronado is a pure seaplane and can carry a tremendous load. It is great for moving troops to and from dot base hexes as it does not need an airfield to do so. Great for evacuating stranded units as well. At 1,000 feet the coronado seems to murder small shipping.
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Prydwen
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RE: 1943: I WANT TO BELIEVE

Post by Prydwen »

Have you considered a KB trap?  Something like gathering as many 2E (and 4E if you want) bombers together that you can.  Hold them out of sight.  Send an expendable TF (transports or warships, whatever you feel like you can afford to lose).  Maybe it could look like a relief force for PM?  Where depends on many factors.  When the KB and LBA smacks it run back towards Australia (or wherever home is).  Hopefully KB follows and gets within strike range of your 2E/4E bases.  I'd keep the bombers back off the front lines so Rader doesn't smell the trap and stay away.  Once he commits to following is when I would move them to their operating bases.  Hopefully they can at least score a few bomb hits on some of his CV's and take some of them out of the fight.  Then your CV's can come in and have some better odds.  A flood of subs can help pick off stragglers.  Any thoughts?

Best of luck!

IAMH
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RE: 1943: I WANT TO BELIEVE

Post by SqzMyLemon »

ORIGINAL: ItsAMadhouse

Have you considered a KB trap?  Something like gathering as many 2E (and 4E if you want) bombers together that you can.  Hold them out of sight.  Send an expendable TF (transports or warships, whatever you feel like you can afford to lose).  Maybe it could look like a relief force for PM?  Where depends on many factors.  When the KB and LBA smacks it run back towards Australia (or wherever home is).  Hopefully KB follows and gets within strike range of your 2E/4E bases.  I'd keep the bombers back off the front lines so Rader doesn't smell the trap and stay away.  Once he commits to following is when I would move them to their operating bases.  Hopefully they can at least score a few bomb hits on some of his CV's and take some of them out of the fight.  Then your CV's can come in and have some better odds.  A flood of subs can help pick off stragglers.  Any thoughts?

Best of luck!

IAMH

I think a lot of Allied players forget about what the 4E's and B-25's can do to Japanese naval CAP. Nevermind trying to hit the Japanese CV's with them, if they do it's gravy. What the 4E's will accomplish is the decimation of the enemies carrier CAP. Then they can be in serious trouble if Allied carriers appear right after or even a day later after a few rounds with the B-17's. The Allied 4E's are the best fighters you'll ever have! [:D]
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Prydwen
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RE: 1943: I WANT TO BELIEVE

Post by Prydwen »

I read somewhere the best escort for 50 B17's is 50 B24's. [:D]  But if I was doing this I would have pretty much everything.  All the 4E's I could get.  Above whatever the HR altitude for naval attack of course.  And every 2E with decent enough legs to get in the fight.  B18's, B25's, B26's, Hudsons, if it can carry a bomb send it!  Day 2 send in the carriers for the killing blow and subs to help with the cleanup.

IAMH
schwartzkie
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RE: 1943: I WANT TO BELIEVE

Post by schwartzkie »

My memory is a little fuzzy but, if I recall there was one group of catalinas that could convert to the PBY4 in late 42. I had to hunt but I eventually found it. Otherwise you just have to wait for the groups that come in April
but don't fret as any ventura squadron can convert and you will have plenty units soon enough. In fact the risk is converting too many units as the replacement rate is very low.

VP-51 Catalina group can convert to PBY4 when they become available in 12/42
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