H2H - Wishlist

Panzer Leo · Post by **Panzer Leo** » Mon Dec 23, 2002 10:49 pm

I know, I said there will never ever be an update or patch for H2H...well, after I found a few errors that really embarassed me (no, I don't tell you which errors these are

) and several requests from all kinds of players and SPWAW fans, I decided to release a patch, including some changes...but don't worry, this patch will be according to the following rules:

- All scenarios and campaigns converted to H2H or made in H2H have to be usable with the patch

- the patched version has to be playable against the "ce" version without OOB errors (in secure games you will ofcourse have a warning, but it will not cause any errors in gameplay)

That means changes are limited by these rules, but it is necessary to protect the work that went into H2H up to now and to avoid version conflicts and the chaos that would evolve if you don't have a patched version...

What I want from YOU now is, to put together a wishlist...things you don't like about H2H and want to see changed, or things you were missing in the "ce" version...

One example:

Goblin complained about the FJ Zugtrupp not being able to catch up with it's troops...an OOB error on my side, I forgot to raise the Zugtrupp speed to 10...easy correction - is done already...

Another thing that came up, was the true troop and pricing issue...as it is right now, it seems to be a coding issue...simply a problem with the way how these costs are calculated for different Exp levels and nothing I can really do about, unless I stumble across a really ingenius solution...but rather unlikely...

So whatever comes to your mind, bring it down here...there're a lot of things I cannot change, but there're also enough chances to have some influence on H2H right now...

Changes that already made it into the patch:

- various minor error corrections like the Zugtrupp above
- lethality of Snipers increased
- infantry in general a bit tougher and more competetive in defense

M4Jess · Post by **M4Jess** » Mon Dec 23, 2002 11:54 pm

Cool

(x3)

How about adding all to-date H2H scenarios to the patch?

H2H Peiper Camp is also almost ready...

M4 Jess

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Tue Dec 24, 2002 12:50 am

Hi Leo
Here are some of my wishes I would like to see.
This is only because I started playing some 1949 BPEM games where you pick what you think is the best possible order of battle you can come up with. Leberal use of the Nation button.
#1. The Czechs have that Panther II, I want to see that included in the purchase screen.
#2. They also have that 81mm mortar multiple laucher. Looks cool. Include that in the purchase screen.
#3. I only play the big 100X240 maps. I noticed that allot of the Rocket type artillery you are unable to purchase. Can some of that stuff be onboard like the Whizbang and the other rocket artillery that is on the Sherman??
Thanks again, because it is the only version I play.
Merry Christmas.

m10bob · Post by **m10bob** » Tue Dec 24, 2002 12:54 am

Your work is excellent...If this is a "wish list",I would like to see some "sandbag Sherman and M10's,and M5's..
Here's an idea nobody has been able to "solve"..Some kind of representation for the tanks equipped in the field with the so-called "culin-cutter" device..(It was usually a pair of railroad ties,stripped from the beaches of Normandy,and welded to the fronts of American Sherman and M5's,which when punched into the side of a hedgerow,prevented the tank from climbing over.Instead,the tank was able to keep pushing forward,creating an opening in the hedgerow,(with minimal speed loss)..
Well Panzer Leo,you asked!!!!!!!!!!!..With your past quality work,I suspect you could probably solve this,(if anybody can).
.bob(indiana via Gutleut Kaserne,FfM);)

Goblin · Post by **Goblin** » Tue Dec 24, 2002 1:01 am

Lose the cost cut for the Soviets and Americans? Maybe adjust a few prices too? A German 4-man MG42 team costs more (encyclopedia price) than an armored halftrack with a .50 cal and a .30 cal machinegun. This is just an example, and I know not your fault, but you did ask...

Goblin- A Goblin says Merry X-Mas Leo:D

Panzer Leo · Post by **Panzer Leo** » Tue Dec 24, 2002 1:18 am

Originally posted by M4 Jess
Cool (x3)

How about adding all to-date H2H scenarios to the patch?

H2H Peiper Camp is also almost ready...

M4 Jess

Great idea...I will bundle them and put them in...should be about 60-70 by now plus three small campaigns, the Stalingrad campaign, a few posted on the forum and everything Jess is throwing out...we'll see how many we can get till the patch comes out

Originally posted by Jack

#1. The Czechs have that Panther II, I want to see that included in the purchase screen.
#2. They also have that 81mm mortar multiple laucher. Looks cool. Include that in the purchase screen.
#3. I only play the big 100X240 maps. I noticed that allot of the Rocket type artillery you are unable to purchase. Can some of that stuff be onboard like the Whizbang and the other rocket artillery that is on the Sherman??

I am thinking of removing the rare German equipement to the Norway OOB and make it available for purchase...the main idea why a lot of equipement was taken from the German OOB and moved to the Czech is that I wanted to have a "standard set" of German equipement that is used for PBEM games and the like without Sturmtiger and Maus showing up in company strength...
If this stuff would be in the Norway OOB, one could easily agree on PBEM terms like "Germany no Norway OOB stuff" and the purchase will be historical...on the other hand, if players want to play what-ifs, they can easily access these units...still thinking it over...
US rocket artillery might be possible...I'll see...

Originally posted by m10bob

I would like to see some "sandbag Sherman and M10's,and M5's..

Some kind of representation for the tanks equipped in the field with the so-called "culin-cutter" device

One sandbag Easy8 should be in (should be displayed on the pic aswell)...it is one of the very few Allied tanks, that has "armored skirts" to represent the toughness against HEAT rounds...others to be added is rather unlikely...the US OOB is pretty much full (completely if the Rockets make it in) and the sandbacks were very rare, I think...

The cutter is a tough call...I can't do much to add special vehicle behaviour, but an interesting wish...who knows, maybe someone has an idea

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Tue Dec 24, 2002 1:30 am

Thanks Leo,
For serously considering my request.

rbrunsman · Post by **rbrunsman** » Tue Dec 24, 2002 1:54 am

I agree with Goblin's concerns about purchase points. Whatever you can do to make equal point matches equal would be great for me. (i.e. X pts Germans v. X pts US or Russia or Brit. = fair fight)

Svennemir · Post by **Svennemir** » Tue Dec 24, 2002 2:35 am

Hi Pz. Leo

Just be careful when around those experience modifiers. As I stated sometime before, experience modifier is adjusted in 10exp increments - so if you change Soviet prices according to 65 exp, it will most probably be similarly unfair earlier in the war when the exp is 60. Also it will be a problem late, when the exp reaches 70.

Also remember that German exp ratings drop to 65 late in the war. US also has a period around '43 with 65 in base exp. So it's highly unlikely that balance can be improved by changing across-the-board OOB prices!

To correct the balance issues I suggest you instead lower the LEADERSHIP and/or MORALE ratings by one level (5 points) or so (open to discussion), only when exp=65.

Remember the great price-gap occurs only at exp=65, so countermeasures are only necessary for nations with exp ratings exactly there (or possibly slight modifications for exp=60)

What do you think of this solution? As I said, across-the-board price changes won't be feasible through all years of WWII, so something else must be done in order to restore balance.

Also be very careful not to tip the balance too far - point advantages tend to have much greater impact on the game than one woul estimate (try a 4:3 battle, feels like a 16:9 doesn't it?), so the present imbalance might be smaller than you think.

Goblin · Post by **Goblin** » Tue Dec 24, 2002 3:07 am

I agree with you. I only ask that some of the stuff that was out of balance before be corrected now. My MG/halftrack example above is one such thing. The MG, being far less useful than a halftrack, should cost less (base cost). It should cost more than a .30 cal by istelf though, it is more effective. See? There are numerous examples of this. Even if Leo was able to just change a few, it is a big improvement!

Goblin

Jacc · Post by **Jacc** » Tue Dec 24, 2002 3:26 am

Gee, thanks guys... You gave me a hard-on while waiting for this.

I have no other DEMANDS except the one already mentioned ... make the infantry a bit stronger, especially in defence.

Svennemir · Post by **Svennemir** » Tue Dec 24, 2002 3:40 am

Yes, infantry could be a bit stronger. And a slight bit cheaper too?

Anyway, when my computer was idle a while ago I made a small test:

3000 pts. worth of T-34/85 with exp=70 (total 32 tanks) vs.
3000 pts. worth of T-34/85 with exp=65 (total 43 tanks)

On a clean map, visibility 35, unlimited ammo (just for testing).

Result:

exp70 tanks all detroyed or disabled,
only

Svennemir · Post by **Svennemir** » Tue Dec 24, 2002 3:41 am

oops!

Only 17 exp65 tanks destroyed.

So there's an imbalace, yes, according to the test (which is random)

Svennemir · Post by **Svennemir** » Tue Dec 24, 2002 4:16 am

Next test:

Exp70 tanks vs exp60 tanks

exp60 tanks won, but lost 21.

Who wants to test infantry? ('cause I'm busy)

Redleg · Post by **Redleg** » Tue Dec 24, 2002 4:25 am

I would like to see for scenario design purposes:

An infantry unit tucked away in Norway OOB that has a carry capacity of 2.

The Watchtower and Lost Victories "special icons" added.
Especially the dogs and the icons for airplances.

Ammo cannister that has a weight of 2.

Some small rifle bunkers with size 1. These could be a slightly modified version of the command posts.

Lysander airplane put in both French OOBs.

I don't know if possible or not but adding some points to the document that contains those ratings of countries so there is not such a wild difference between nations would be nice.

Forgive me if any of this is already done.

Supervisor · Post by **Supervisor** » Tue Dec 24, 2002 9:08 am

My wish please create a smaller banner or picutre (the picutre has to be linked to a URL then I can add the link to the H2H site)so I can add it to my signature for quick linking, you have done a great job in providing all SPWAW gamers such a fine product.

Supervisor · Post by **Supervisor** » Tue Dec 24, 2002 9:18 am

Ok now I'm mad

not only have the forum GODS messed with our smileys now that have limited images in signatures, I can't add any more even if I were to remove 3.

M4Jess · Post by **M4Jess** » Tue Dec 24, 2002 9:22 am

join us G-man...join us....

x500

M4 jESS~MAD AS HELL

Supervisor · Post by **Supervisor** » Tue Dec 24, 2002 10:03 am

I'm lobbying for 7, do you feel this would be sufficent????

Goblin · Post by **Goblin** » Tue Dec 24, 2002 10:12 am

I would be happy with my 5 warfaces of death!!:mad:

(+2)

Goblin