Summary of frustrating issues

[Farfarer61]

Just a imple way to create Jadg whatever battalions, or have auto creation of interesting SUs if a pool of certain (cool and usefu) units reached a set level would be fine.

[Joel Billings]

Glantz lists Red Army losses in 41/42 as 6 million KIA/MIA/Captured and 5.4 million wounded/sick, with another roughly 5% additional losses for other services. In 43 another 2 million KIA/MIA/Captured and 5.5 million wounded/sick. Even so, he had the Red Army at roughly 6.4 million at the end of 42 and again at the end of 43. They took a licking and kept on ticking.

It's possible that our system of disabled return is too generous and/or we still have too much population coming into the Soviet army (we've reduced manpower multipliers once already for 41/42 and have considered some additional reductions especially later in the war).

[Joel Billings]

ORIGINAL: molchomor

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

I assume you are saying the planes were lost, and no replacements were available to fill them, correct? Or did the scenario start with no aircraft. In the latest version of the 41 campaign I'm looking at (not yet out to the public), the Rumanians start with 394 AC and have about 200 in the replacement pool. In a PBEM game I have a save for from the summer of 42, the Rumanians have 627 aircraft.

1) Romanian airgroups are mostly empty with zero planes. Root cause: Bug, they never get exports so they stay empty forever. Check it out for yourselves in the attached save.

Hi Joel I think I described the issue clearly enough ? OK a step-by-step then:

1) Open the attached save
2) Inspect the Romanian squadrons (many/most have 0 planes, this is a symptom of the suspected fault.)
3) Toggle "manual" selection of types for the squadrons with zero planes (most want types that are NEVER exported to Romania, at least not until the date of the save ~1/1 '45). This is the suspected fault.

I guess as they never get any exports except for a few fighters, and have a net production of maybe five (5) planes/week after attrition, accidents etc., their numbers dwindle towards zero.

I looked into the data for both campaign 41 and campaign 42 and you are right that aside from 150 fighters, most of the Rumanian imports are showing with 0 max imports (so no imports will happen). Not sure why this is, but I'll bring it up to some of the data guys and see if that was a mistake.

You still have over 400 Rumanian aircraft in 45 compared to the 394 they start the war with. There is something that looks odd that I don't know enough to explain. Most Rumanian air groups start with 9 AC but have a max ready of 24. This means that a few units could build up over time to 24 AC, leaving the other units to whither away for lack of replacements. Not sure why the Rumanian air force was organized this way.

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Glantz lists Red Army losses in 41/42 as 6 million KIA/MIA/Captured and 5.4 million wounded/sick, with another roughly 5% additional losses for other services. In 43 another 2 million KIA/MIA/Captured and 5.5 million wounded/sick. Even so, he had the Red Army at roughly 6.4 million at the end of 42 and again at the end of 43. They took a licking and kept on ticking.

It's possible that our system of disabled return is too generous and/or we still have too much population coming into the Soviet army (we've reduced manpower multipliers once already for 41/42 and have considered some additional reductions especially later in the war).

I will repost something I did jokingly in one of my AARs. Fighting the Red Army in WITE is like a horror movie:

[molchomor]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

ORIGINAL: molchomor

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

I assume you are saying the planes were lost, and no replacements were available to fill them, correct? Or did the scenario start with no aircraft. In the latest version of the 41 campaign I'm looking at (not yet out to the public), the Rumanians start with 394 AC and have about 200 in the replacement pool. In a PBEM game I have a save for from the summer of 42, the Rumanians have 627 aircraft.

1) Romanian airgroups are mostly empty with zero planes. Root cause: Bug, they never get exports so they stay empty forever. Check it out for yourselves in the attached save.

Hi Joel I think I described the issue clearly enough ? OK a step-by-step then:

1) Open the attached save
2) Inspect the Romanian squadrons (many/most have 0 planes, this is a symptom of the suspected fault.)
3) Toggle "manual" selection of types for the squadrons with zero planes (most want types that are NEVER exported to Romania, at least not until the date of the save ~1/1 '45). This is the suspected fault.

I guess as they never get any exports except for a few fighters, and have a net production of maybe five (5) planes/week after attrition, accidents etc., their numbers dwindle towards zero.

I looked into the data for both campaign 41 and campaign 42 and you are right that aside from 150 fighters, most of the Rumanian imports are showing with 0 max imports (so no imports will happen). Not sure why this is, but I'll bring it up to some of the data guys and see if that was a mistake.

You still have over 400 Rumanian aircraft in 45 compared to the 394 they start the war with. There is something that looks odd that I don't know enough to explain. Most Rumanian air groups start with 9 AC but have a max ready of 24. This means that a few units could build up over time to 24 AC, leaving the other units to whither away for lack of replacements. Not sure why the Rumanian air force was organized this way.

Of course it is a bug. I opened the save and had a look at one of the many empty fighter squadrons. Of all available plane types to them only one type would be possible for them to actually get - the IAR-81B of which is allegedly produced one (1) each turn (probably lost in training anyway). So they stay empty as exports never happen and nothing is produced.

Meanwhile I have thousands of good planes collecting dust in the german pool.

[molchomor]

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Glantz lists Red Army losses in 41/42 as 6 million KIA/MIA/Captured and 5.4 million wounded/sick, with another roughly 5% additional losses for other services. In 43 another 2 million KIA/MIA/Captured and 5.5 million wounded/sick. Even so, he had the Red Army at roughly 6.4 million at the end of 42 and again at the end of 43. They took a licking and kept on ticking.

It's possible that our system of disabled return is too generous and/or we still have too much population coming into the Soviet army (we've reduced manpower multipliers once already for 41/42 and have considered some additional reductions especially later in the war).

I will repost something I did jokingly in one of my AARs. Fighting the Red Army in WITE is like a horror movie:

hehe yes it never ends...the campaign save i attached started in '42, now at 1/1 '45 about 13M Soviets are wiped off the board and they still keep coming

[von altair]

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

I don't think the fact that someone is doing well should disqualify them from having an opinion on play balance.

I am doing rather well in my game "The Wolf and the Bear", but nevertheless I feel that the Soviet army is somewhat overpowered in WITE. That coupled with the lack of a good VP system makes the GC for both sides something of an endless grind with no clear purpose to strive for, except in the very long term.

In most other East Front games, German possession of Leningrad, Moscow, Stalingrad and perhaps Sevastopol would render a German win. I am not saying they are right, but I am saying that in game terms they have definable victory conditions and clear objectives that make the games more exciting and tense.

Edit: Typo.

I totally agree with Tarhunnas.

I've been playing 2 games (with latest patch. 7 games total) atm. One game against Soviet AI and another against my Soviet PBEM friend. I consider myself as average++ player.

Soviet is way too overpowered atm But saying that is not so clear and easy.

- Soviets can launch way too strong winter offensive at -41 blizzard. In real life they didint have supplies for long advance (nor skills for that kind of maneuver)
- Soviet unit density is too high at -42 (remove brigades or force soviets to convert them)
- Soviet ability to build forts at -42 is too high and removes all kind of mobility game. The game turns out to WW1 trench war. Engine should make it harder for russians to make forts at 42-43
- Soviets gets too much manpower + armament bonuses at -42 spring

The game engine basically simulates USSR at -42 same as they were real in 1943. The Germans still had edge at -42 and engine should allow that.

[Joel Billings]

Nice poster. I've read many cases of German generals feeling and saying exactly that. It happened at Smolensk and Moscow in 41, and at Stalingrad in 42, and I'm sure many other times during the war. Soviet Reserve armies would show up and the Germans would be amazed at how many new troops they were facing. Glantz has the Soviet army forces taking 29.5 million casualties during the war (half of which were KIA/MIA/captured), so they did in fact regenerate their army many times over.

[randallw]

That's an impressive amount of Soviet corps destruction.