Japanese APs with no range or fuel

[el cid again]

Class slot 2041 is defined correctly. Yet all the ships
ship slots 2839 to 2847 inclusive
supposed to be using it have instead 0 in fuel and range fields.

I think the ships might move at 5 knots - as ships are supposed to do
that when out of fuel - but with range = 0 - maybe not?

This is easy enough to correct once identified.

Seems to be a stock issue, probably in all - but certainly in Scenario 1 and almost certainly in the
related scenarios.

[michaelm75au]

Replenish from port.

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Class slot 2041 is defined correctly. Yet all the ships
ship slots 2839 to 2847 inclusive
supposed to be using it have instead 0 in fuel and range fields.

I think the ships might move at 5 knots - as ships are supposed to do
that when out of fuel - but with range = 0 - maybe not?

This is easy enough to correct once identified.

Seems to be a stock issue, probably in all - but certainly in Scenario 1 and almost certainly in the
related scenarios.

Using the latest beta, I show 2819 thru 2843 with 525 fuel and the 2844 thru 2847 needing refueling.

[Don Bowen]

Lack of fuel in some ships is INTENTIONAL. Any fuel they would have is FREE FUEL and would upset the available fuel balance.

The editor feature to update ships from classes (used when the class changes) frequently gives back some of this fuel if one is not careful.

Basically, all new ships should arrive empty and need refueling. Some ships setting in port at scenario start should also be empty.

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


Lack of fuel in some ships is INTENTIONAL. Any fuel they would have is FREE FUEL and would upset the available fuel balance.

The editor feature to update ships from classes (used when the class changes) frequently gives back some of this fuel if one is not careful.

Basically, all new ships should arrive empty and need refueling. Some ships setting in port at scenario start should also be empty.

I understand this concept as to the ships arriving after start date and it makes sense. I previously asked a question here at
tm.asp?m=2850875&mpage=1&key=&#2850875

I wanted to add some ships at start date and got the impression from consensuses that a ship would be fueled in port having refueled as it arrived. Should I reconsider that those ships starting the game, and in port, would be normally fully fueled?

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach
I wanted to add some ships at start date and got the impression from consensuses that a ship would be fueled in port having refueled as it arrived. Should I reconsider that those ships starting the game, and in port, would be normally fully fueled?

Fuel and oil production figures for the various nations in WitP are meant to reflect real life values. Obviously ships that were built and launched did not appear with full fuel tanks conjured up from nowhere. The fuel was taken from the available supplies. So yes, all ships that arrive as a newly built ship should have 0 fuel, then have to be filled after launch from available fuel supplies. This applies to both the Japanese and the Allies.

As Don says it is easy for ships arriving with what I call "free fuel" (or "magic fuel" if you like) to creep back into the database, so it is an ongoing process to comb through the database and weed these out.

The exception is (Allied) ships that arrive from off-map instead of being built on the map. My preference for these ships is that they appear in the game with 50% of their fuel capacity. Also, ships that start the game on the map are an exception. These SHOULD probably be less than fully fuelled as well, especially if starting at sea.

Andrew

[Buck Beach]

Thanks

[JWE]

The latest Babes and BabesLite have done the best they can to conform to Andrew's suggestions in this regard. Andrew has provided a lot of compare and contrast files, and I think we have all the ships that arrive after opening day, scheduled with Andrew's fuel recommendations whether they are new construction or arriving in TFs at Cape Town, Balboa, wherever.

Only thing we haven't messed with is the actual opening day stuff - except that the KB has reduced fuel in the Dec 8 scenarios. Haven't messed with other TFs at sea because it's a real pita - what day is it, when did they leave, how fast were they going, yadda yadda. Anybody want to do that, I'll be happy to include it.

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: JWE

The latest Babes and BabesLite have done the best they can to conform to Andrew's suggestions in this regard. Andrew has provided a lot of compare and contrast files, and I think we have all the ships that arrive after opening day, scheduled with Andrew's fuel recommendations whether they are new construction or arriving in TFs at Cape Town, Balboa, wherever.

Only thing we haven't messed with is the actual opening day stuff - except that the KB has reduced fuel in the Dec 8 scenarios. Haven't messed with other TFs at sea because it's a real pita - what day is it, when did they leave, how fast were they going, yadda yadda. Anybody want to do that, I'll be happy to include it.

I ain't volunteering for nutin. I'm happy with everything.

[el cid again]

Reduced fuel is a great idea - the tankers should not start mid Pacific with full tanks - and the KB ALSO starts mid Pacific with
full tanks. It was barely possible to make the PH attack - Hiryu and Soryu had to have fuel in 55 gal drums to do it

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach
I wanted to add some ships at start date and got the impression from consensuses that a ship would be fueled in port having refueled as it arrived. Should I reconsider that those ships starting the game, and in port, would be normally fully fueled?

Fuel and oil production figures for the various nations in WitP are meant to reflect real life values. Obviously ships that were built and launched did not appear with full fuel tanks conjured up from nowhere. The fuel was taken from the available supplies. So yes, all ships that arrive as a newly built ship should have 0 fuel, then have to be filled after launch from available fuel supplies. This applies to both the Japanese and the Allies.

As Don says it is easy for ships arriving with what I call "free fuel" (or "magic fuel" if you like) to creep back into the database, so it is an ongoing process to comb through the database and weed these out.

The exception is (Allied) ships that arrive from off-map instead of being built on the map. My preference for these ships is that they appear in the game with 50% of their fuel capacity. Also, ships that start the game on the map are an exception. These SHOULD probably be less than fully fuelled as well, especially if starting at sea.

Andrew

What about ships that arrive at some forward base - on their date of commissioning? Japanese subs - which I reviewed in detail - and Allied transports - seem to appear just about anywhere - for example at Hanoi - which surely didn't build submarines - or at Kodiak - which surely did not build AKs.
What is the logic of that - or is it inherited from an earlier database?

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: el cid again
What about ships that arrive at some forward base - on their date of commissioning? Japanese subs - which I reviewed in detail - and Allied transports - seem to appear just about anywhere - for example at Hanoi - which surely didn't build submarines - or at Kodiak - which surely did not build AKs.
What is the logic of that - or is it inherited from an earlier database?

There would be no difference for ships "appearing" at a base they were not built at. They still didn't have fuel appearing in their tanks from a magical source. They should also start empty. Alternatively, you could start them full, but reduce the at-start fuel reserve of the owning nation by the same amount.

If you prefer ships to be constructed on-map with full fuel tanks, I don't see any problem with that, as long as the at-start fuel level of the owning countries are reduced correspondingly. I just prefer to have them be launched empty, as they were in real life. The matching fuel reserve reductions, if anyone took the "launch them full" approach, are important - for example, from memory, the amount of magic fuel that the Japanese received in the original WitP scenarios amounted to about 600,000 points (tons). That is not a trivial bonus!

By the way, do you have any examples of reinforcement ships appearing in Kodiak or Hanoi?

Andrew

[JWE]

I wouldn't worry about it Andrew. In Babes, USS Gillis (AVD) is the only ship starting at Kodiak, and nothing 'arrives' there. Nothing starts or arrives at Hanoi, either.

Probably looking at a scenario that came with the original game disk and not anything you, Don, and I have worked on. Not even the current 'official' GC scenarios have anything at Kodiak or Hanoi.