The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (no Q-Ball please)

[cpt flam]

keep in mind that reserve will intervene a lot more if from the same command
in your case you had Pz Corp/PzArmy/AGN/OKH and Finn High Command/Army/Corp
a lot of chain command could not happen for me [&o]

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: cpt flam

keep in mind that reserve will intervene a lot more if from the same command
in your case you had Pz Corp/PzArmy/AGN/OKH and Finn High Command/Army/Corp
a lot of chain command could not happen for me [&o]

Actually not. I had transferred the panzer corps to the Finnish Kannas Army.

[ComradeP]

Tarhunnas, do yourself a favour and place those Finnish fortified zones on the 3 hexes west of Janisjarvi (one on the northwestern corner of Janisjarvi and two dot hexes west of the minor river south of Janisjarvi), which are much easier to defend than where you're digging in now. Two heavy woods hexes, one light woods hex and a minor river covering two of the hexes. Unless that minor river is frozen, it will be tricky for the Soviets to attack. The Finns have enough troops to cover those 3 hexes with 3 units each, and still provide some support elsewhere (near Leningrad for example).

I don't know why you've spread-out your fortified zones/why there are fortified zones east of the Volkhov river. From a defensive perspective, the forts they're preparing are not worth much because they can easily be attacked or flanked.

As with the Soviets, the Achillesheel for Leningrad remains the light woods hex on the northern bank of the Neva. Even with artillery divisions and a frozen Neva, it will be very difficult for him to bump you out of Leningrad proper as long as you put some quality troops in the city.

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Tarhunnas, do yourself a favour and place those Finnish fortified zones on the 3 hexes west of Janisjarvi (one on the northwestern corner of Janisjarvi and two dot hexes west of the minor river south of Janisjarvi), which are much easier to defend than where you're digging in now. Two heavy woods hexes, one light woods hex and a minor river covering two of the hexes. Unless that minor river is frozen, it will be tricky for the Soviets to attack. The Finns have enough troops to cover those 3 hexes with 3 units each, and still provide some support elsewhere (near Leningrad for example).

Hmmm, you're right, I didn't see that, thanks for the tip!

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

I don't know why you've spread-out your fortified zones/why there are fortified zones east of the Volkhov river. From a defensive perspective, the forts they're preparing are not worth much because they can easily be attacked or flanked.

Some of them are leftovers from winter. I built a couple more and thought of them as intermediate positions, with the intervals eventually filled in.

[Peltonx]

You can't run faster then the Reds during the Blizzard turns 42-43. I found that out the hard way.
His cav and tanks will easyly keep up with Infantry and he will have allot of them by then.
because of the front being dead for months. The key is German Infantry. The mech and tank units stay strong, bu there is not enough of them.

Q-ball will also be able to build up a reserve of 500,000 men in his manpower pool. So his numbers will beable to stay steady at 8.0 million for 20 or so turns (74 - 94)of hvy combat if he plans stuff out right.

A total pull back from the Leningrad area might be best idea, that save the Fins. Make sure you u put a few sercutiy units in Finland.

The Keiv north is very defendable, the weakest area is Keiv south. The key for Russian is not breakthrough, but to simply grind down the German army using the 1v1 =2v1 rule.

Not much you can do as German the forts really dont help much because the Russian stack will have 15 to 25 attack CV. I am seeing a few stacks of 35 attack CV in my game vs Hoops. The only defendable hexes are behind the major rivers. They freeze during winter. Which is why I say holding the landbridge and rivers during the summer of 43 is KEY to winning or a draw for German player. You be able to rebuild some of your units during the summer and be able to put up a good fight during the 43 - 44 winter before your army is a bunch of ants.

[Mynok]

True about the blizzard, but he's not in blizzard now. He'd better prepare now just like you recommend.

[Peltonx]

I prepared and it didn't matter, not much you can do about the 1v1 rule.

Hes in a little better plase then I was because he has an air forse left. I am guessing he can inflict ok losses on the attacker when its done near his airbases, but they cant cover the hole front.

Pelton

[Tarhunnas]

Turn 60.

Some further attacks on the Finnish front, but nothing dramatic. Soviet losses are up sharply in their attacks for some reason.

Menawhile, air recon has discovered suspicious activity south of Moscow, and the presence of many guards units and artillery formations. Might something be in the brewing? Reserves are moved to the area just in case...

[Tarhunnas]

I make some counterattacks. Those on the Finnish front are satisfactory in loss ratio. One near Bryansk is a bit odd, even though routing the enemy with a far larger force, I take more casualties than the Soviets. Apparently, one has to be careful in making counterattcks.

Edit: Typos.

[Klydon]

That is a pretty impressive stack. 40k guys with 3 rifle divisions and some support units? 600+ guns is pretty impressive as well. 

[jzardos]

More like an example of how messed up the combat mechanics can be in WitE.  The axis attacked with double the manpower and more of almost everything.  Was only a fort 1/clear and the commando style retreats of the Soviets.  I guess they're never going to fix this in WitE.  Have already done tests (over 1000 battles) to prove that the battle results are very odd/plain wrong in some cases, like 25%.  So I guess the devs are never going to fix this stuff, 75% correctness is ok with them.
[:(]

The real sad part is the 184 tanks to none didn't seem to cause much issue with the Soviet defense and less losses then the axis.  Good luck showing me an example of this force compilation and results EVER happening in 1942.  Great historical accuracy here.  Sorry so go on, but this crap has been annoying me for months now after I found it.

<sigh>

HINT to devs: stopping using stupid ratios to calculate battle results... like the ridiculous attack with more you lose more, no matter what force you fight. This happens in many cases. Same crazy concepts applies when I've seen 2 full pz div fight a lone Soviet Rgt of 1000 men and the Soviets lose 200 men and retreat.

[Baelfiin]

Can't see what got bombers got through to pound the ground troops. If the soviets cleared through and the luftwaffe didnt, that might be the extra damge done. Plus could have just plain rolled bad on the combat......

[Joel Billings]

Do you have a save before this battle where it can be run again? I'm also curious who the leaders were for both sides in the battle. Please send it to 2by3@2by3games.com if you've got one. I think you're using standard PBEM, not Multiplayer, correct?

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Do you have a save before this battle where it can be run again? I'm also curious who the leaders were for both sides in the battle. Please send it to 2by3@2by3games.com if you've got one. I think you're using standard PBEM, not Multiplayer, correct?

Files sent!

[jzardos]

Sorry for my earlier rant. I've always been impressed at the devs at least taking the time to explore where people might see an issue in the game. I know it will take a lot to change devs mind (especially Gary's) about the combat engine and some of the ways it calculates loses.

But I have to try and help the game and the community with what I see as issues. I'm not new to WW2 games and or the history of the eastern front.

[Tarhunnas]

Turn 61. All quiet on the Eastern Front.

Nothing dramatic happening to show a screenshot of, only some attacks on the Finnish front and a slight withdrawal by me.

[Peltonx]

Yes I have to agree on combat engine being a little wierd.

In one of my AAR's the Russian losses are basicly historical for April 43, but the German losses are 40% higher then historical.

I also see allot of battles where German losses seem really high for a battle that should have next to nothing for losses and the Russian losses should be allot higher.

I say that the engine can simply be tweaked a little to reflex looses better and the 1v1 2v1 rule needs to be thrown out completely. I just don't see the logic of that rule, unless the combat engine is so messed up that was the only thing they could do to try and save it.

Not sure they can tweak the combat engine when they can't even get the 20 mp HQ build-up rule fixed, its still at 19 mp after several "fixes'.

[Tarhunnas]

Well, it seems they are concerned about that and looking into that combat, so I am happy with that. I have had several results in the same vein, so I am extremely cautious about conterattacking Soviet rifle corps. Tank corps are much more brittle, and will lose scores of tanks in a similar retreat.

[mmarquo]

Tarhunnas,
&nbsp;
What is&nbsp;the initiative rating for the Finnish commander controlling the Panzer Divisions?
&nbsp;
From the manual :
&nbsp;
1. "then the unit must pass a leader initiative roll to be committed to the battle,"
2. "Corps sized combat units are less likely to be committed offensively as they add one to the leader initiative roll. Brigades and Regiments are more likely to be committed as they subtract one from the leader initiative roll."
&nbsp;
I have not yet tried breaking down the reserve PzDs into regiments - it seems like this should work
&nbsp;
Marquo

[Tarhunnas]

Seems ok, see below. I usually don't break them down. The chance of reacting might be higher, but a regiment will not add very much to combat strength. I want the odds shifted substantially in my favor, to really clobber the attacker, and given the 1-1 rule, it is better to be on the safe side.