Spain or Russia

[Centuur]

This is a really empty country indeed! Partisans paradise... And look at all those gaps in the frontlines! There isn't one at all! Even if the Chinese and Japanese did set up a little better, there are not enough units to prevent the Chinese from doing all kind of nasty things by trying to cut supply lines.
I think I just got a nasty feeling that says that conquest of China is going to be a very different thing in MWIF. It probably means killing the Communist first in 1939 going along the railway in the north and than slowly aim for the heartland around Chungking, since that is has the shortest way through the mountains. No fun in the south with those huge mountain ranges there... The problem is that as a Japanese you really have to invest in land forces to kill the Chinese army...
I wonder what playtesting will result here. Is China easier to conquer with those new cities and the larger map? Supply can easily be cut by Partisans... Terrible. Now from an historical point: this is probably the reason why the Japanese didn't conquer China...

[Shannon V. OKeets]

You should look at the new roads we added in south central China. These reflect the fact that the rivers were important supply routes. So what we did was to add a road that 'parallels' a couple of the rivers. This alleviates supply problems to some degree. They can't be used for rail movement, but they can be used by HQs tracing supply via a "railway path".'

[oscar72se]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

You should look at the new roads we added in south central China. These reflect the fact that the rivers were important supply routes. So what we did was to add a road that 'parallels' a couple of the rivers. This alleviates supply problems to some degree. They can't be used for rail movement, but they can be used by HQs tracing supply via a "railway path".'

I have never tried this map, but the way I see it the first priority for JA in the south should be to seize control of Changsha and Hengyang. These cities seem to be absolutely vital for the Chinese and have no nasty defense bonuses. If the Chinese lose control over these cities they would have no other option than to retreat from eastern China. A strong force striking at Changsha/Hengyang from the north, backed up by a smaller force from the south should do the trick.

After these goals are accomplished, it seems to be a loooong walk to Kweiyang... I wonder if the enlarged map enables the Japanese to simply walk around the Chinese in order to get across the rivers?

Anyway, it appears to be a totally different scenario in comparison with good old WiF [:)]

Regards,
Oscar

[Extraneous]

This is the “Spain or Russia” thread.

Shouldn’t this be on the “How do you handle Barbarossa? And the Pacific War?” thread?

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

This is the “Spain or Russia” thread.

Shouldn’t this be on the “How do you handle Barbarossa? And the Pacific War?” thread?

Technically, yes, but it developed from a discussion of blitzing on the Russian steppes. It's hard to split a conversation between two threads. I'm probably to blame, since I posted the first screenshot of China. Sorry about that.

[Centuur]

We can always say that the development of the Chinese Campaign is off course something which might decide the choice "Spain or Russia" for the Axis. [:D]

Everything in WiF tends to get together somewhere in decision making... [8D]

[Red Prince]

The greatest Theory of Everything that I've ever met . . . or is this Universal (battle)Field Theory?
[X(]

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

Here's a shot of the main Chinese front. It's from just after setting up Japan for a Missed the Bus scenario (not a terrific setup, but what can I say), at Zoom Level 2. Sorry about the image quality -- I had to reduce it to get the jpg under 500 kb.

Yes, this is still in the wrong forum, but I want to keep these together. I remember there was some interest as to what could be done, given this setup. Well, here's how things look at the end of the S/O '40 turn (2nd turn):

[Centuur]

This is a really big and empty country... Bad weather is coming in the North, so the Chinese Communists should survive (provided some units will arrive as reinforcements...). I assume Mao is just off the northern board edge?

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

This is a really big and empty country... Bad weather is coming in the North, so the Chinese Communists should survive (provided some units will arrive as reinforcements...). I assume Mao is just off the northern board edge?

Yup, but looking at it now, I realize this is actually from in impulse before the turn ended. The Japanese have actually moved forward even more. The Communists will definitely survive, though.

[Red Prince]

Okay, I have a question for you strategists out there. I'm still running that test game of the Global War scenario, trying to push it as far as I can . . . all the way to 1948 (extended game optional rule) if possible. The progress has been slow due to other work I've been doing, but I've gotten back to it this past week, and I want to know what I should do with some CW naval units.

I'll lay out the situation in this post and the next one.

This is the same game in which the USSR made a disastrous attack in Persia that cost it the HQ-A Zhukov (in the first turn!), and also the same game in which Germany found itself in position to conquer France, instead of declaring Vichy -- and to make a strike at Spain.

It is now the beginning of S/O '40, Zhukov has just returned, but the J/A '40 turn was horrible for the Allies. While the aggressive play by the Axis did allow the USA to Pass the War Appropriations Bill quite early, the Allies lost a lot of units it really couldn't afford to lose:

(Notice there are 4 Allied HQ units that were crushed under the Axis boot)

[Red Prince]

In the final Axis impulse of the last turn, Italy managed to take Suez to cut off supply from India, and is almost certain to take Cairo in the first impulse of this turn. (I should note that I'm using an odd combination of Optional Rules for supply here):

Other items of note:

• The Balkans are Axis-controlled, with Greece conquered by Italy and Yugoslavia aligned to Italy
• Syria and Palestine have been conquered by Italy, and Iraq is aligned to Italy
• Germany has conquered Cyprus, has HQ-I von Leeb in Syria, an INF in Iraq, and 2 more units waiting in Greece for Italian TRS to take them to Syria this impulse (trying to get Turkey through the back door)
• Persia was finally conquered by the USSR last turn, but is open to attack unless reinforced
• Italy dominates the Med sea areas
• Things are going badly for the Commonwealth in Spain, and Germany can probably take Gibraltar this turn (CW got stuck with too many units in Malta, and not enough units to defend Gibraltar)
• The Commonwealth has 14 naval units in a well-defended Malta (soon to be OOS), and 19 naval units (including 2 TRS) in a weakly-defended Gibraltar (soon to be in enemy hands)

So, here's the question: Does the CW do whatever it can to evacuate the Naval units from Malta? It will mean fighting through the Italian Navy, but should be possible. And, should the CW try to use the TRS in Gibraltar to reinforce it with the Land units it has in Malta?

I'm assuming the answer to the first question is "Yes". The second question, however, poses a problem -- at risk are not only the 2 TRS that the CW would rather not lose, but also the fleet that will be required to protect them. If things go poorly, as many as 33 ships could get stuck OOS in the Med. That makes them useless, since Isolated Reorganization Limits are being used. That's a significant portion of the Allied fleet.

However, can the CW simply give Gibraltar to Germany? Does it need to do whatever it can to try to keep the Med open? I'd really appreciate your thoughts.

[AstroBlues]

I cannot remember where I read this, but I read an Allied strategy would be just to abandon the med and Gibraltar giving the US many entry chits and having them come into the war a lot quicker.

[BallyJ]

In this situation I would try to reinforce Gibralta
with everything I had.
Also try to hold Er Rif in Nth A.
you can try to run the blockade in the west Med.
Get the fleet out of the Med \
Make him fight for Gibralta.
If the US has passed War A bill
every turn bring the jolly green giant closer.
regards John

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: BallyJ

In this situation I would try to reinforce Gibralta
with everything I had.
Also try to hold Er Rif in Nth A.
you can try to run the blockade in the west Med.
Get the fleet out of the Med \
Make him fight for Gibralta.
If the US has passed War A bill
every turn bring the jolly green giant closer.
regards John

I'm sorry, but I don't understand the "Er Rif" reference in North Africa.

Part of the problem here is that the CW and France do not co-operate, since France was conquered instead of Vichy being installed.

[Extraneous]

Er Rif - A hilly region along the coast of northern Morocco. The Berber peoples of the area remained fiercely independent until they were subdued by French and Spanish forces (1925-1926).

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Er Rif - A hilly region along the coast of northern Morocco. The Berber peoples of the area remained fiercely independent until they were subdued by French and Spanish forces (1925-1926).

Thanks. I wasn't aware of that, and I was trying to find some notation on the MWiF map, thinking it was there. [X(]

[composer99]

They're referring to the Spanish Morocco aligned minor.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Ronster

I cannot remember where I read this, but I read an Allied strategy would be just to abandon the med and Gibraltar giving the US many entry chits and having them come into the war a lot quicker.

At best, I think this would only give the US 2 chits, and in my game the roll for Suez has already been made -- and failed to add any chits.

[composer99]

Otherwise, I agree with BallyJ:

- get the Royal Navy out of the Med asap
- if you can keep a couple of elite (white-print) units in Malta while also reinforcing Gibraltar I recommend it; otherwise stuff Gib to the gills (feel free to risk the TRS to bring units from Malta to Gib - you are building extras, right?) and put an HQ and artillery in the adjacent hex in Spanish Morocco
- fight to keep sea supply to Gib open

If US has passed war appropriations entry into the war is looking pretty good.

Once the US is in, it will be a whole lot easier to fight back into the Med if the Allies control Gib than if they don't.