Anzio 1944 Allied PO

[Cfant]

@ orger: Thanks. Yes, PO's aggression often turnes on itself

@airfields: The first one or two turns it attacked a lot of my airbases. From then I didn't care much for my airforces (they were quite weak), except naval strikes.

[Cfant]

Earlier Allied reinforcements is out of the question. The turnaround from Naples to Anzio was three days. Allied commanders and 'advocats of Shingle' struggled to get the required transport craft, not so much because these weren't available but because Allied High Command didn't want to risk losses which could influence the projected Normandy landings.

If you as the German Player want to have a tougher going then don't use the von Behr and 4.FJ TOs.

I don't complain if I win [:D] And I find it quite tough. I just wanted to point out Elmars problems. I also see no real reason not to pick all help I can get, the VP-price is not so high imo.

However what could be done is to reduce readiness/supply of arriving German reinforcements. Maybe this even needs to be done if i take a look at the losses you posted..

I sent you my save. There you can see the losses of both sides, maybe it helps you. I meant 420:1500 squads, counting all types of infantry together [;)]

We will have to look at this with the new version again as i changed some objective tracks which should reduce Elmer's stacking. I hope.

However note that according to Molony and Verney the British combat companies in the Campoleone salient were down to approx 40 - 60% personel strength after their offensive towards Campoleone. The German attack produced more losses and 56th Div's 168th Inf Bde had to be inserted into the line. One British unit - i can't recall which, except that it's been one of 1st Inf Div's battalions - would have ceased to exist if the remaining officers wouldn't have rebuilt it 'ad hoc' from freshly arrived reinforcements (source: Peter Verney).

A lot of small units evaporated on both sides. No problem with that. As I said - it has to be seen, how Elmar stands the test in a short, improved scenario. Having only 30 turns in your new version, it may be quite harder to achieve total victory than in 100+ turns.

I suppose that if you hadn't "sneaked in" along the coastal roads, but had fought your way down the Via Anziate your losses would have been significantly higher. These attacks costed the Germans dearly in men (as did Br. 1st Div's attack towards Ostericcia/Campoleone for the Allies).

Defensive artillery support is a factor here, too. Though i have tweaked cooperation levels so that regimental guns only can freely support its regiment, divisional artillery its parent division and only Heeres-Artillery and VI Corps Artillery respectively can freely coperate with everyone. Still there is the artillery support bug, which btw had first been discovered in the strategycon forums.. ( and which will be fixed in 3.5). I wonder if this bug also "works" for defensive fire support.

After Elmars troops in the west were destroyed in a cauldron (taking 17 turns if I remember right), only two or three units were left (mainly rbc-ing). You will see in my save, that the via anziata would have been not much more problem - the whole area behind the front was open. [:(] Unthinkable in real life, I guess.

[Telumar]

Thanks for the save. I just wonder why Elmer's units, especially those from the Br. 1st Div didn't react to your forces approaching the Overpass..? He also did nothing against the HG ferry unit that went for 3rd Division's cigarettes and Schnaps at X Ray beach.. Though i must say, it's a cheap victory, i mean, two and a half battalions rushing down the coastal road and a ferry unit at X Ray beach..lol. Btw, how did you get there? Across the Mussolini Canal? And the Rangers and the 509th Para stood idle?

In the new version i added a "Rear Area" ad-hoc combat/emergency unit that is stationed at Anzio. If this unit holds one turn, maybe two, Elmer should have enough time to react in some fashion. I think this unit could have resisted your force for several turns.

What could help is to have one of the later arriving Regiments of US 45th ID in garrison as a reserve. The first Regiment to arrive is the 179th on turn 14. This could be in garrison on the three likely approaches with one battalion each (coastal road Ardea-Anzio, Via Anziate at the Overpass or in the Padiglione Woods and the Anzio-Cisterna road). VI Corps had a Regiment (or a Brigade) in reserve at any time during the battle.

It also occurs to me that it couldn't hurt to increase Elmer's infantry replacements.[8|]

In the 2km version i had Naval Beach Battalions and the like in garrison mode at the beaches. Normally i would not model such mere logistic units in a scenario, but Elmer really needed them. Maybe he needs them here, too?

[USXpat]

Really, for units sliding around the corner and sneaking into objectives - just need a few small rear area elements to serve as triggers. Only need to bring them in for scenarios played against the PO. Figure an MP detachment, a small supply depot, even a small recon patrol - just a platoon each. So if they catch some havoc, or their objectives points are taken, a larger formation can be diverted by the PO to check out the situation. Just adds an extra layer of "awareness" for the PO that usually a player doesn't need - and of nominal combat value.

[ogar]

I'd vote for some beach units -- a la Anzio 2KM - with very limited movement MP = 1, 2, or 3. They can serve as triggers, as USXpat suggests, as well as form part of the final defensive line.

I'm still shocked that Cfant got as far as he did coming down the coast road -- the PO must not have recognized any movement there until too late and not had any units free to react. That is tough to do (which means I have not been able to get away with it - but wish I could).

And in A2KM I was able to get some of the HG PZAA just outside Anzio, and I think, I got the bridging unit near XRay -- that was before the beach defense units were added. (The sections of the Canal between Padi and the Cisterna road are not considered important by the PO, so they are usually thinly populated if at all -- and that's how I sneaked in.)

[Cfant]

I didn't plan to take anzio with this attack, but to cut off the osterricia-troops from supply and maybe form a cauldron. fact is, there were simply no troops left there. So I tested it out - and came to anzio. there I found the first resistance: two artillery-counter, that rbc'd.
On the other hand, Elmer had not much time to react. My guys entered Anzio within two turns after the breakthrough was achieved. And Elmers thinned out lines were under pressure already.

The guy who went for cigarettes and bretzels, (no schnaps on duty), marched over one of the bridges south of mussolini canal. The PO guarded some bridges, but left others alone, not reacting to the little lost german unit. As ogar said: There was no reaction, as long as I avoided direct contact.

one more thing: not one time a moving unit was intercepted by allied air fleet. So I could move freely as if I had total air superiority.

But even if I had not gone to Anzio: Look at the losses. Elmer was still standing, not knowing he was dead already.

@Beach Bataillons: I'd prefer reinforcements in garrison mode, which are released if the germans come within xx hexes of anzio. So a march to anzio like mine would have a bitter ending for the germans [;)]

Most important are higher rates for Elmer, I think. Looking at the losses, I could have been sitting still while waiting for the allies to be down to the last man. I also would suggest higher rates for tanks, not only infantry. Elmer tends to press on with his tank units, finding himself surrounded by quite angry germans with anti-tank-equipment. [:'(]

[ogar]

I'm testing out the newest (I think) version of this, and Telumar has made even more improvements -

yes, the fleet does not stack up next to the beach -- and spread out, they are harder to sink.

And the land units, as well, are less likely to stack (well, two 5-stacks is better than a 9-stack).

The PO is still extremely aggressive -- I cannot remember which technical setting in the editor is more aggressive ('beserk' or 'banzai'), but whatever -- Elmer is dialed to 11 on it. Still, at 5 turns done, I do not see round after round of large Allied losses for small gains -- again, some large losses, but not as many as before.

And as before, Elmer is pushing me around with ease; I'm bringing in von B, and Balkan air, and may opt for early release of the 4 FJD. To me, one of the strengths of this scenario is that you really do feel like you're on the edge, until some luck and some extra units buy some time and then you think, "Okay, now I can win this game."

[Cfant]

I too accepted the challenge. I decided for the "30-Turn-Option". First reason: To test it out. Second: To "force" me to become offensive.
Elmer presses on, with some more success then last time. He doesn't bleed dry so fast, crossed rivers quite fast and in force and somehow seems to hold his lines. Beeing on turn 10, I have to think how to achieve a victory agains allied hordes. Of course I called in all reserves I could get. [:D] Let's look, if this greed for units costs me a victory. [;)]

[Cfant]

Again, the balkan air fleet proves to be a good choice. [:D]

[Cfant]

Although Elmer still doesn't guard all bridges, he kicks out my "schnaps&bretzel" mission quite soon [:'(]

[Cfant]

It took till turn 8, till the loss-ratio started to climb in my favor. Now I have the feeling, Elmers offensive cools down a little. Still I could not destroy much of his tank-force. Lacking the whole mass of artillery I had in my first run (or is it due to Elmers higher reinforcement-rate?) he still is stronger than in my first try.
Elmers left flank contains british and US troops, who arrived lately at this part of the front. While the british are out of steam, the Yankees still are a danger. Nevertheless I will try to launch an attack there. Well, just in case, you know [:D]

[ogar]

Thanks for the pix. I guess I need to start snapping and posting some screenies of my own.

I too elected to try out the 30-turn option -- and it will be tough. I'm up to turn 7. The PO did not take the air drop option in my game -- so I have to wait for 4 FJD; and wait for the Nashorns, as well -- they are about the only thing that really helps against the Shermans, and more importantly, those AT-dodging Stuarts.

I held the Canal till Allied turn 4, and it looks like Elmer pulled the some slick side-step on you that he did to me -- on the Cisterna road, instead of forcing the destroyed bridge hex, and putting an engineer to either re-build or at least re-base an attack, Elmer sidestepped across the super-river (3 US ID has 3 major ferry eng. companies) and Elmer used them to cross an undefended super river hex, and then land 3 Sherman co's on that engineer. He almost got away with turning my fragmented line - but I had a unit defending in what I thought was a back-water. Turned out that unit held the line for a turn, and saved Cisterna from a quick attack. Very slick movement on Elmer's part -- kudos to Ralph for adding to Elmer's capability, and to Telumar for making use of that with the formation objectives and paths.

Like you, I lost Aprilia by turn 6. And Elmer is just outside Osteraccia in your game. Then all he needs to take is Cisterna. It may be a bit too early for hitting his flanks with a full out offensive.

Oh, and where are the 504th PIR ? They do have foot movement, remember, and you have no one guarding the wadis between Ardea and Campo -- 12 companies of paras crossing the badlands and turning your Campo flank will give you a taste of your own medicine.

Good luck.

[Telumar]

ORIGINAL: Cfant2

Again, the balkan air fleet proves to be a good choice. [:D]

Hmm ..night attacks on the Allied fleet. With only the Allied Beaufighters in the air i guess. I would see this as an exploit. Exploiting the design, the engine, whatever you want.

Will a house rule prevent players from this or do we need some events that set the according units (German He-177s and Do-217s) to garrison every PM turn..?

[Telumar]

ORIGINAL: Cfant2

It took till turn 8, till the loss-ratio started to climb in my favor. Now I have the feeling, Elmers offensive cools down a little. Still I could not destroy much of his tank-force. Lacking the whole mass of artillery I had in my first run (or is it due to Elmers higher reinforcement-rate?) he still is stronger than in my first try.
Elmers left flank contains british and US troops, who arrived lately at this part of the front. While the british are out of steam, the Yankees still are a danger. Nevertheless I will try to launch an attack there. Well, just in case, you know [:D]

Looking forward to your flank attacks. This time you shouldn't so easily walk into Anzio. Schnaps&Bretzel missions in force towards Xray Beach could however be successfull again, don't know.

Would you mind sending or posting a sal or screenshots regarding Elmer's losses? I've increased his replacement rates for infantry.

[Telumar]

ORIGINAL: ogar

Thanks for the pix. I guess I need to start snapping and posting some screenies of my own.

I too elected to try out the 30-turn option -- and it will be tough. I'm up to turn 7. The PO did not take the air drop option in my game -- so I have to wait for 4 FJD; and wait for the Nashorns, as well -- they are about the only thing that really helps against the Shermans, and more importantly, those AT-dodging Stuarts.

The StuGs of 3.PzG Div don't help against the Shermans?

Also, beware the M10s.

ORIGINAL: ogar
I held the Canal till Allied turn 4, and it looks like Elmer pulled the some slick side-step on you that he did to me -- on the Cisterna road, instead of forcing the destroyed bridge hex, and putting an engineer to either re-build or at least re-base an attack, Elmer sidestepped across the super-river (3 US ID has 3 major ferry eng. companies) and Elmer used them to cross an undefended super river hex, and then land 3 Sherman co's on that engineer. He almost got away with turning my fragmented line - but I had a unit defending in what I thought was a back-water. Turned out that unit held the line for a turn, and saved Cisterna from a quick attack. Very slick movement on Elmer's part -- kudos to Ralph for adding to Elmer's capability, and to Telumar for making use of that with the formation objectives and paths.

I was stunned when i saw Cfant's screenshot, it was exactly the same thing that you showed me from your game. But don't credit me, this was neither intended nor did i have any background knowledge about Elmer routines that you don't.

ORIGINAL: ogar
Like you, I lost Aprilia by turn 6. And Elmer is just outside Osteraccia in your game. Then all he needs to take is Cisterna. It may be a bit too early for hitting his flanks with a full out offensive.

Oh, and where are the 504th PIR ? They do have foot movement, remember, and you have no one guarding the wadis between Ardea and Campo -- 12 companies of paras crossing the badlands and turning your Campo flank will give you a taste of your own medicine.

Good luck.

Everyone seems to be obsessed by that coastal road/across the Mussolini Canal approach. Operationally and with the knowledge of Elmer formation objectives this is surely a good option. So why didn't von Mackensen attack along the coastal roads? Maybe this should be better worked out. Naval Gunfire was an issue, also the lack of an adequate road net (as opposed to the Aprilia area/Via Anziate) plus the terrain (in the northwest you have the various Fossi, Wadis etc and on the eastern flank the Mussolini Canal).
But let's see how (if) your offensive goes.

[ColinWright]

ORIGINAL: Telumar
Everyone seems to be obsessed by that coastal road/across the Mussolini Canal approach. Operationally and with the knowledge of Elmer formation objectives this is surely a good option. So why didn't von Mackensen attack along the coastal roads? Maybe this should be better worked out. Naval Gunfire was an issue, also the lack of an adequate road net (as opposed to the Aprilia area/Via Anziate) plus the terrain (in the northwest you have the various Fossi, Wadis etc and on the eastern flank the Mussolini Canal).
But let's see how (if) your offensive goes.

Offhand, I'd guess the prospect of trying to advance through point-blank naval gunfire was the decisive factor in reality.

[Telumar]

Yes it was.

Usually Elmer shells everyone he sees with his navy, the problem with Cfant's last attempt was that he didn't send his boys. Also, i think in a human vs human game, such an endeavour is quite risky. It could well end with the Germans - and not the Allies [:D] - being driven into the sea. Especially the northwestern road can easily be cut due to the "terrain choke point" on the south bank of the Moletta creek. I wouldn't do it in a PBEM. Not unless an Infantry division gets across the Moletta on its length and then there's still the navy.

[Cfant]

@naval attacks: tell me if I'm wrong, but I remember it to have been a dawn-attack, using the air shock bonus. The news is from the night-turn, so the attacks have to be from the turn before. [:)]

However, not a single ship has been sunk since. PO now bombs the hell out of my Luftwaffe. That's the same like in the first try, but back then Elmer never attacked the balkan air force. This time, they are attacked and therefore shocked time after time.

[Cfant]

The difficulty of this scenario has incredibly improved. (god, my english is bad. sorry for that!). Elmer kicks my ass, at least he denies me a easy victory. [&o] The Fuhrer is not pleased, maybe General Cfant has to report to Wolfsschanze, never to be seen again [:D]

The changes work out very well. You have to keep in mind, that I only have 30 turns to achieve a victory. But Elmer has a lot more steam now. The british all over the front are ready for harvest, but the US boys have a lot of Tom Cruises and Bruce Willis in their units [;)]

@oger: the allies paradropped on turn 2 near osterricca. So they just took one or two hexes in this area. Nothing to worry about. Well, maybe a little. But not much. [:D]

I'm on turn 17 now, the match is a "minor victory" in the moment. Since turn 13 I have launched a counter offensive. There are three operations.

Center: As Oger said: An all out offensive on the flanks would be quite dangerous. I fully agree to that. So I planed an operation to relieve the city. The boys in black this time ara moved to the center. They should support the forming of a cauldron. After three turns of intense fighting the cauldron was finaly formed in turn 16, but Elmer broke the siege in his turn. So there still has been no cauldron, but allied forces have suffered, several units evaporated. Osterricia is not in danger.
Due to the success of operation "Anzio" allied forces moved back, the ones remaining are depleted and not able to start a really dangerous offensive.



The second one was the "rush for anzio" on the left flank. It began quite successful. The allied forces there were surrounded and destroyed. My forces then went south.

[Cfant]

Then things started to go wrong [;)] First, Elmer made a crossing of Fosso del Fisco. not a danger, but I had to send in reinforcements who were planed to be used elsewhere. In the red cross you see the last stand of elmers left flank.