Power Balance

[Shark7]

Carriers as attack priority...

The last Betty raid I had against an AI CVTF ended with a single hit on a CA. The Carrier didn't even get targeted. There is probably a sub-routine that checks to see if the priority target is located, and it goes down the list with each 'sub-group' of attackers and potential targets.

In other words, I just had lousy luck that time. Probably what happened in your PBEM game.

[Shark7]

A second thought.

To help your opponent, I would suggest he set all of his fighter squadrons to 20% on rest at all times, and to overload them with pilots. It really does help the whole fatigue/morale issue.

[vettim89]

I think Barb has discovered one of the biggest challenges in finding a PBEM oponent: finding some one of similar skill and commitment. This game can be played at a variety of levels of depth. You can play "by the seat of your paints" or you can play with the meticulous attention of detail you would expect to find at say a War College. Like life in general, fate rewards those that are best prepared in AE. SO if one player is spending 20 minutes on his half of the turn and the other player is spending two to three hours, you can bet that is going to show in the long run.

WiTP/AE is a very hard game to learn. While good advice from the Forum members helps always, for the most part you have just got to play the game. Barb, has your opponent played a CG against the AI say into '43 or '44? I ask that because I think there are some who only play an AI game long enough to get the mechnics down. I have played three PBEM's and still am playing the AI to refine some of the strategies and tactics I will use in my next PBEM. Yes, the AI does not offer the challenges a human opponent can and does, but it does allow a player (especially an Allied player) a chance to familiarize himself with the challenges of playing the game past 1942

I am sure I am not the only AFB who does hesitate to start a new PBEM because it is just not fun to have your butt kicked around the map for six months or more. Maybe you could convice your opponent to start an AAR. I am sure Grayjoy can attest that the "emotional" support provided by fellow AFB's has helped keep him going even when times are really tough

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: vettim89

I am sure Grayjoy can attest that the "emotional" support provided by fellow AFB's has helped keep him going even when times are really tough

Absolutely right! It's been a challenge of its own to remain on your "seat" and the AAR readers have been so helpfull - not only in giving suggestions but above all to support my morale - that without it i doubt i would have gone through all those massacre with a decent fighting spirit[:D]

[dr.hal]

In relation to being an allied player in the first few months of '42, I'm one right now. I think I learned very quickly that you have to pick your battles and be where his good assets are NOT! Right now my kill ratio is about 1 to 1. How? Well I do have some strengths, first the Brit pilots are not novices, as they have been fighting since '39. Thus out in India/Burma I'm doing well. This is coupled with the AVG, which although not combat hardened (the AVG didn't actually get to start flying combat missions until well after Pearl Harbor) they are good pilots with solid morale. This to is an asset. Finally I try to concentrate where his is not expecting it... for example over a few ships that are "fleeing" or a base loading assets and "L"cap it. Thus when my opponent's unescorted and somewhat overconfident bombers come in, I nail them (my second ace of the war is a Dutchman in a Buffalo). In other places, the feedback you are getting is right, flee/evade!!!! And one last thing, remember there is only one Jap KB and one mini KB, so although the USN carrier A/C are not a match yet, they can strike and hit hard where the Japs are NOT! So that is always an asset (thus you want to know where the KB is all the time!).

In relation to what your planes target in an attack, one has to step back into the shoes of someone in '42. We would like to think that all our pilots knew for sure that the flattop was queen of the seas and battlewagons a thing of the, and that CVs were target number one, but I fear that such a belief might be overdone. Planting an "egg" on a big towering Jap BB (or CA as the CAs looked a lot like a BB to a fast moving pilot who might be scared out of his shorts) would be a real "hit".... So human nature, something a game has great difficulty in replicating, is somehow at play here.... IMHO!!!

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: vettim89

I think Barb has discovered one of the biggest challenges in finding a PBEM oponent: finding some one of similar skill and commitment. This game can be played at a variety of levels of depth. You can play "by the seat of your paints" or you can play with the meticulous attention of detail you would expect to find at say a War College. Like life in general, fate rewards those that are best prepared in AE. SO if one player is spending 20 minutes on his half of the turn and the other player is spending two to three hours, you can bet that is going to show in the long run.

WiTP/AE is a very hard game to learn. While good advice from the Forum members helps always, for the most part you have just got to play the game. Barb, has your opponent played a CG against the AI say into '43 or '44? I ask that because I think there are some who only play an AI game long enough to get the mechnics down. I have played three PBEM's and still am playing the AI to refine some of the strategies and tactics I will use in my next PBEM. Yes, the AI does not offer the challenges a human opponent can and does, but it does allow a player (especially an Allied player) a chance to familiarize himself with the challenges of playing the game past 1942

I am sure I am not the only AFB who does hesitate to start a new PBEM because it is just not fun to have your butt kicked around the map for six months or more. Maybe you could convice your opponent to start an AAR. I am sure Grayjoy can attest that the "emotional" support provided by fellow AFB's has helped keep him going even when times are really tough

Take solace in the fact that you will only get kicked around the map for 6 months. JFBs get 3 years of it.

[vettim89]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Take solace in the fact that you will only get kicked around the map for 6 months. JFBs get 3 years of it.

I have a very high level of respect and appreciation for any JFB that stays in the game into 1945. That said, isn't it really about two years - from mid '43 to the end of the war? I view the game as three phases: Japan Triumphant (12/41 to mid/end of '42), period of parity (mid/late '42 to mid '43), Allied Steamroller (mid '43 to end of war). Player skill and game events can change the dates on those three periods but that is how it usually breaks down

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: vettim89

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Take solace in the fact that you will only get kicked around the map for 6 months. JFBs get 3 years of it.

I have a very high level of respect and appreciation for any JFB that stays in the game into 1945. That said, isn't it really about two years - from mid '43 to the end of the war? I view the game as three phases: Japan Triumphant (12/41 to mid/end of '42), period of parity (mid/late '42 to mid '43), Allied Steamroller (mid '43 to end of war). Player skill and game events can change the dates on those three periods but that is how it usually breaks down

It all depends on how lucky (or unlucky) the Japanese player is. If you can get into mid '43 with no serious losses, you stand a real good chance of putting up a decent fight to the end. Lose too much too early, and you start getting hammered as early as mid '42.

[Barb]

There are few things around to clarify

1. I played as allies three CGs in WITP - each one was "win" in terms of opponents disapearing (however nothing gamey was in it). This is my first AE CG and first time I am playing for Japs too.

2. My actual opponent is a friend of mine (i know him for some 20 years). He is not actually blaming me, but the game. He is also a "I must be the best" in whatewer game he is playing.

3. Just now he dropped the game (I hope its only "again") because he lost 25th Infantry Division on Luganville due to 4th, 38th Division, 16th Regiment and some artillery.

4. I am playing as much historically as I can (that means reasonable) - no cheap grabs, dividing KB, assets, allowing Burma army to escape from Rangoon even after I warned him, that it is a death trap, having units in their HQs zones and so on. Only major differencies in our game are:
A. that I got Port Moresby with Division and Regiment against three Australian Militia brigades in January.
B. Occupied Solomons in ferbuary, Lunga airfield lvl 4 in June
C. Got Java month later (about 15th April)
D. He is still in Northern Burma (but retreating)
E. I purpotedly waited until June to launch so called "second wave" with very limited objectives - Northern Australia (Broome-Darwin-Katherine, 4Divs + support), Luganville, Efate, Ndeni, Milne Bay and his three australian militia brigades in Owen Stanleys (again 4 Divs+ some support).
F. He is also trying to play historically - that means, he is trying to get into my way and deal me some losses. However this is going in two ways - if he is weak, he suffers twice my air losses, if he is strong, i simply do not fly )
G. He still have some forces allies didnt have in reality at this time (only one BB sunk in Pearl, Repulse and Prince of Wales are alive, lost only few light cruisers and destroyers in SRA, 18th UK Div is also still alive and well).

5. He hasnt suffered any CRIPPLING loses yet. He is also getting twice the number of fighter planes I am producing. I rarely see any allied bomber (except those at SRA).

6. I think he is too much inactive and defensive - and this gives me a lot of free space tactically. I told him about it. I revealed to him how weak I am everywhere except where my focus is, but no carrier raids (I made one down to Noumea in january/february and he bitched about it a lot for losing some 7 cargo ships and escorts in total). He thinks that to stop japanese, he had to STOP them COLD somewhere.

7. Strategically I am not moving anywhere beyond North Australia and Luganville - I feel weak and spread very thin (for example I had only the original 5th Air Division from Philippines for North Australia - two fighter sentais (one still have Nates), one Lilly, one Helen sentai, One Mary sentai + recon supported by 3rd Ku (zero) and 4th Ku (Betty).
And as a bonus I am coming to him to allow him to engage my air forces on short range, and my strategy in those areas are only of denial of their early use.

8. We are not playing on CAP ambushes, nor CAP draining, nor stratosweeps, ...

[Barb]

I didnt accept any of my opponents quitting the game as my victory. In this last case, I feel realy sorry, because I didnt get anywhere further with the game - and we are plying this CG almost since AE came out thats for two years.

I know how allies can feel frustrated in first year (however I never sunk so deep). But I feel frustrated personally that I am not able to play this great game for and enjoy it as a whole, not only few game-months.

If I fail to get my friend back to the game, i would feel very, very, VERY sory. I could also try to find a replacement (get into the line orderly along that wall and no overtaking, please [:)] ). But maybe I can go to my idea of 2x3 multiplayer game.

So if you know about anything that could help me to persuade my opponent to continue, go, get them and bring them here.

[Shark7]

As far as losing LCUs is concerned, if you are playing one of the later betas it helps, because you can rebuild most of your losses.

Honestly, this knowledge tends to make me more agressive in my defense.

From what you describe, your opponent is playing too defensive, but it seems more like he is unable to accept that he will suffer some losses. That is inevitable, as either side in this game. You know what they say about the best laid plans of mice and men.

[Archangel85]

Indeed - stuff gets broken in war, that is the way it goes. The first half of 1942, at the very least, is the time where the Allies basically trade one thing for another - a cruiser for an invasion delayed by a week, an island for forces to hold another island, a fleet carrier for 60 trained aircrews and planes. I do somewhat agree with him, that at some point you have to force excessive losses on your enemy. Like ambushing an invasion convoy with a carrier group after getting SIGINT. And I agree with him that it is incredibly frustrating at times, to watch a carrier battle where you lose everything and your return strike hits nothing.

But tell him this: The Allies are playing the long game. An allied carrier that is sunk will eventually be replaced (and bring two buddies with him, just because). If you lose a troop transport on the allied side, you reach behind you and pull out another 5. A Japanese carrier sunk is gone, and they need every single tiny advantage to get them through 1943. Downing a dozen Betties is a major victory, right there. Sinking one of the large 15ktons tankers the Japanese have is a big victory. The same applies to fast transport ships, cruisers and so on. Those are all assets they can not afford to lose, and sinking 2-3 fast transports in an invasion is a victory even if the base is taken.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: Archangel85

Indeed - stuff gets broken in war, that is the way it goes. The first half of 1942, at the very least, is the time where the Allies basically trade one thing for another - a cruiser for an invasion delayed by a week, an island for forces to hold another island, a fleet carrier for 60 trained aircrews and planes. I do somewhat agree with him, that at some point you have to force excessive losses on your enemy. Like ambushing an invasion convoy with a carrier group after getting SIGINT. And I agree with him that it is incredibly frustrating at times, to watch a carrier battle where you lose everything and your return strike hits nothing.

But tell him this: The Allies are playing the long game. An allied carrier that is sunk will eventually be replaced (and bring two buddies with him, just because). If you lose a troop transport on the allied side, you reach behind you and pull out another 5. A Japanese carrier sunk is gone, and they need every single tiny advantage to get them through 1943. Downing a dozen Betties is a major victory, right there. Sinking one of the large 15ktons tankers the Japanese have is a big victory. The same applies to fast transport ships, cruisers and so on. Those are all assets they can not afford to lose, and sinking 2-3 fast transports in an invasion is a victory even if the base is taken.

This is very true, even from the Japanese side as the war progresses. Sure you want to save the BBs and CVs for missions in 44-45, but I've been known to run subs or destroyers in to disrupt landings or even unloading operations at enemy ports. It may cost me 2 DDs, but there is that chance I sink a transport carrying the bulk of a combat LCU that will force an opponent to change plans or delay an invasion.

It's all about risk versus reward. Allied players have a lot more to play with due to the fact that they will get replacements for lost ships, planes and pilots down the line.

[Barb]

My opponent said I should find another "dick" to play this "broken" game against. [:D][X(][8|][:(]

[Puhis]

It's probably better that way... 

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Barb

My opponent said I should find another "dick" to play this "broken" game against. [:D][X(][8|][:(]

What a putz.

Well, congratulations on your victory, Barb. You've earned it. Take a few days to relish the breaking of your opponent's will and then get right back on that horse, sir.

[Barb]

Well, I cannot consider it as a victory, as my opponent blames the game and air/land combat.

I will take a little pause and maybe someone will take over ... If theres anyone interested in taking over almost untouched allied forces and play them in historical fashion, PM me.

[Chickenboy]

Doesn't matter what your opponent 'blames'. He concedes if he leaves the game. You win, he loses. You're selling yourself short and you're giving your flaky opponent much more credit than he deserves. Quitters never win, they lose. He lost, you won. Embrace your victory, dude. [8D]

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: Archangel85

.....

But tell him this: The Allies are playing the long game. An allied carrier that is sunk will eventually be replaced (and bring two buddies with him, just because). If you lose a troop transport on the allied side, you reach behind you and pull out another 5. A Japanese carrier sunk is gone, and they need every single tiny advantage to get them through 1943. Downing a dozen Betties is a major victory, right there. Sinking one of the large 15ktons tankers the Japanese have is a big victory. The same applies to fast transport ships, cruisers and so on. Those are all assets they can not afford to lose, and sinking 2-3 fast transports in an invasion is a victory even if the base is taken.

About the only victories I have as of Jan 15th 1942 are a IJ disaster cordinating a Neil attack on Manilla and an ambush of some Betty's after I got some RAF fighters to Burma a little earlier than expected [8D] Your words resound hope for the cause!

Otherwise I watch the IJN terrorize the land of OZ at the moment and ahve very little reosurces besides Dutch Subs to provide any threat .... but ... just wait!

[Erkki]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: Archangel85

.....

But tell him this: The Allies are playing the long game. An allied carrier that is sunk will eventually be replaced (and bring two buddies with him, just because). If you lose a troop transport on the allied side, you reach behind you and pull out another 5. A Japanese carrier sunk is gone, and they need every single tiny advantage to get them through 1943. Downing a dozen Betties is a major victory, right there. Sinking one of the large 15ktons tankers the Japanese have is a big victory. The same applies to fast transport ships, cruisers and so on. Those are all assets they can not afford to lose, and sinking 2-3 fast transports in an invasion is a victory even if the base is taken.

About the only victories I have as of Jan 15th 1942 are a IJ disaster cordinating a Neil attack on Manilla and an ambush of some Betty's after I got some RAF fighters to Burma a little earlier than expected [8D] Your words resound hope for the cause!

Otherwise I watch the IJN terrorize the land of OZ at the moment and ahve very little reosurces besides Dutch Subs to provide any threat .... but ... just wait!

Only little success? You have downed 630 aircraft with aircrew he will never be able to replace, to just 280(and many of these probably on the ground, so no pilot losses...) of yours. Congrats! [;)]