AA Reprise

[JWE]

Okey dokey, Michael did a code tweak back in 1107 that dealt with AA and which accommodated the Babes data tweaks. But Dp guns had to go to the hind teat because they also had to play within the SurfCom algorithm.

The amazing and incomparable Michael has coded in some hooks that let us play with DP gun specs, when used in AA mode, without upsetting their specs in SurfCom mode. And lions, and tigers, and bears, oh my !!!

This is not available in the editor. It takes a special program. Babes team been testing this for a month and it seems to work. A poop load of math is involved to get things lined up right.

It's already in the code, but unless the code sees the 'special' attribute, it will default to ordinary, everyday, stock.

Further information is only available to serious modders and serious players (and we know who you are) by pm.

Ciao. John

[Don Bowen]

OK. It's still AM in Texas but I'll wait until PM.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

OK. It's still AM in Texas but I'll wait until PM.

[DuckofTindalos]

A wise guy, eh? Nyuk-nyuk-nyuk!

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
OK. It's still AM in Texas but I'll wait until PM.

And obviously, it happens for your evening Stooges extravanganza.
pm sent. nyukkk, nyukkk, nyukkk. Hey, Moe .... !

Ciao [8D], J

[JeffroK]

Dumb question from a card carrying Luddite.

I assume

In the AA phase the code looks at weapons type and only allows AA & DP types to shoot.

It then says iff allowed to shoot, find accuracy/effectiveness etc ratings.

Is it hard to make this:

If weapons type is allowed to shoot, then use accuracy/effectiveness rating *2-4-50 whatever multiple is required.

Makes sense, the only problem is does the code allow something like this????

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: JeffK
does the code allow something like this????

Yes, the code roughly works that way, and it already tweaks DP gun values. But the data variables named Acc and Eff “mean” different things in the different algorithms, so it’s not quite copacetic to uniformly apply a multiplier. Some 3” DP guns were more “effective” as an AA weapon than some 5” guns, when one considers performance parameters that are relevant to AA performance (the 3”/50 comes to mind). Merely multiplying does nothing but move the whole paradigm up or down, and captures none of the relevant differentiation. So if one is going to dink with it, one should treat each gun individually. This is what was done.

As a simple example, here’s a range of different guns, with their “ultimate base AA variable” calculated in accord with the original model (A), Michaelm’s 1107 tweak (B) (with Babes numbers), and the optional results of this new paradigm (C) (again with Babes numbers).

‘A’ .. ‘B’ .. ‘C’
13 .. 28 .. 48 .. 3in/50
09 .. 26 .. 35 .. 8cm/40
41 .. 72 .. 71 .. 5in/38
38 .. 65 .. 60 .. 12.7cm/50
26 .. 49 .. 62 .. 4in/45 Mk XVI
21 .. 50 .. 64 .. 10cm/65

So one can see why it’s not a great idea to simply multiply column A or B by some number. And then there are the % ceiling calculations, and then there are the tweaks when VT shells and poop-hot directors come on line, and once again, it’s totally different when looking at Flak from a TF or looking at Flak from a Base or an LCU. Lotta math.

[JWE]

Also, as a left-handed answer to the people who sent pms and want to know how it works, I can’t say just yet. This thing requires a special program that michaelm wrote for us, and I’m not comfy schlepping it out without his ok. He says ok, and everybody can get it.

But what we did, within the limits imposed by the processing algorithms (the .exe code), was to tweak Eff, Pen, and Acc data values for AAA performance, for DP guns independently of those data values for their respective Naval performance.

Because Eff is viewed differently, it has a different calculative factor relating to RoF. In this specific context, RoF is more explicit. Pen has nothing to do with Nathan Oakun’s penetration tables, because the shells fired are completely unrelated thus, it also has a different calculative factor. Acc has a bit more of an inherency built in, and is also based on quality of the sighting/training/director apparatus thus, it also has a different calculative factor.

Everything is “based” on numbers and limits imposed by the code, but the proportional and relative values of one gun vs another are about as good as we can get.

[JeffroK]

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: JeffK
does the code allow something like this????

Yes, the code roughly works that way, and it already tweaks DP gun values. But the data variables named Acc and Eff “mean” different things in the different algorithms, so it’s not quite copacetic to uniformly apply a multiplier. Some 3” DP guns were more “effective” as an AA weapon than some 5” guns, when one considers performance parameters that are relevant to AA performance (the 3”/50 comes to mind). Merely multiplying does nothing but move the whole paradigm up or down, and captures none of the relevant differentiation. So if one is going to dink with it, one should treat each gun individually. This is what was done.

As a simple example, here’s a range of different guns, with their “ultimate base AA variable” calculated in accord with the original model (A), Michaelm’s 1107 tweak (B) (with Babes numbers), and the optional results of this new paradigm (C) (again with Babes numbers).

‘A’ .. ‘B’ .. ‘C’
13 .. 28 .. 48 .. 3in/50
09 .. 26 .. 35 .. 8cm/40
41 .. 72 .. 71 .. 5in/38
38 .. 65 .. 60 .. 12.7cm/50
26 .. 49 .. 62 .. 4in/45 Mk XVI
21 .. 50 .. 64 .. 10cm/65

So one can see why it’s not a great idea to simply multiply column A or B by some number. And then there are the % ceiling calculations, and then there are the tweaks when VT shells and poop-hot directors come on line, and once again, it’s totally different when looking at Flak from a TF or looking at Flak from a Base or an LCU. Lotta math.

Thanks,

[chesmart]

So John will we need the program to use this new data or can i copy it off the babes for my personal Mod ? BTW congrats to the Babes team and michealm for making AE even more realistic.

[oldman45]

This is died and gone to heaven time with the DP guns working as they are supposed to. Many many thanks.

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: oldman45

This is died and gone to heaven time with the DP guns working as they are supposed to. Many many thanks.

Are you saying that the subject of AA Reprise, has died when JWE has just posted more on the subject? Your statement has me confused.

[oldman45]

No, I am saying I am really happy the DP guns will finally be working the way they should have been. When the VT ammo kicks in they will be even more potent.

[JeffroK]

You are assuming the DP guns will work fine without the side affect being the map showing upside down.

Finger, Toes etc crossed!!

[oldman45]

If the guns work good enough I will learn to play with the map upside down [:D][;)]

[michaelm75au]

The revised witploadae to handle the secondary ability of guns can be found in the Beta2 directory (if you install the beta that is).
Once the guys have worked out the kinks, they can probably share what needs to be done to allow guns to execute in a secondary mode.

[JWE]

Hootz frikkin gazootz. Michael says cool, so ...

The special program is a modified WitploadAE. Also available here by attachment, along with instructions. The tweaks available from this program will NOT appear in the editor. So one must keep two minds when thinking about AAA stuff.

Data values, whether Nominal or Secondary, have to play within the code parameters. Babes data values, on the website, are pretty close to what we think about the whichness of why.

Literally tons of math relating to real effectivity of tubes from folks who do that for a living. Our team has tested this and it seems to work.

Both DaBabes (version 8) and BabesLite (version 11) have the new values embedded. One must read the Readme, and the Changelog, and do wht it says. Help is available here, if necessary.

[String]

Is there a possibility of this modification ever ending up in official patches?

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: String
Is there a possibility of this modification ever ending up in official patches?

Yes. That would be BabesLite. Otherwise, no.

[JWE]

I think Michaelm is going to put the new WitploadAE into a Beta, if he hasn't done it already. So it will eventually replace the present version and one won't have to keep track of which is which. Isn't osmosis wonderful?