The Power of Inexperience / GreyJoy(A)-Rader(J)

[Saros]

I cant imagine fighting a close in battle like that with two day turns. Must be horrifically messy.

[Paladin1dcs]

For those of us just coming into the situation GreyJoy, could you give a recap of your capital warship situation?  I'm seeing a lot of CL/DD TFs and a small CA/DD TF, but where's the rest of your heavy units?

As for the air war, dear Lord man, I'm absolutely amazed at the kill ratio you've built to date.  Just today alone you've got a 3:1 kill ratio in your favor, and that's without Hellcats!  I think that ny59giants is correct that you've broken his stranglehold on good pilots and it's only going to get worse for him from here on out.

[GreyJoy]

Hi guys,

sorry if i've been a bit lazy during the last couple of days in answering but i was busy getting ready to leave for my summer vacations and now i just arrived and have many things to do here...
The game will be on hold till monday cause me and Rader are rather busy this w/e...

anyhow, Jeff, afaik the multi-subs TF doesn't work as one could think. The way to go is single sub TFs (at least for what i've read on other threads from people more acknoledged (sp!?!?) than me.

NY59: well, i hope so...but the "numbers war" is what made Rader win the air war over Karachi and already now i'm scraping the bottom of the barrel of my pools in the Solomons...i have to hold on for 20 more days...think it can be done!

I still have 16 SpitsVIII, but the backbone of my air force, the elite, is now rapresented by the Spits Vc...they are good and if flown by elite pilots they can be deadly too!

Stark: well, Rader can withdraw for sure...but he will have to abbandon the equivalent of 5 Divisions at Tulagi...it could be an amazing victory for me!!!! I don't think he can give up so easily...

Paladin: welcome aboard. Well, i've lost 8 BBs and several CAs during the PH week (rader bombed the hell out of PH for 7 days!!!) and lost 6 more Brit BBs during the following months...many more CLs and CA were lost in India too......however later tonight i'll check and post a detailed list for you!

Ok...i'll be back tonight when i get back...and will try to analyse a bit deeper the overall situation

Still thanks to everyone!!! It's a pleasure to have you here[&o]

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

...

Paladin: welcome aboard. Well, i've lost 8 BBs and several CAs during the PH week (rader bombed the hell out of PH for 7 days!!!) and lost 6 more Brit BBs during the following months...many more CLs and CA were lost in India too......however later tonight i'll check and post a detailed list for you!

....

Still thanks to everyone!!! It's a pleasure to have you here[&o]

I believe GreyJoy that was the begining of the end ... I am not sure it is a good strategy to use operational points [i.e. sorites] to bomb the hell of a place that will recover, the pre-war BB's and CL's are going to be replaced, and risk carrier aircraft to flak for no real gain besides to be annoying. As I read this thread your implementation of a strategy has resulted in your sucess today. I am more of a newbie than you, but the airwar is your favor ... you got a tremendous advantage before you even get the real stuff that inflicts endless damage.

I would be most interested in the direction this particular operation takes. I sense a lot of IJ resistance than collapse rather than a well-cordianted withdrawal....I entertain the thoughts of the experts commenting on this thread, but it seems he is over committed...???[&:]

It is my pleasure reading this thread . I have learned much!

[GreyJoy]

Palladin, here are the losses of my major ships. The situation is as greem as it looks like. At PH we¡¦ve lost the ENTIRE pacific fleet, save for the CVs¡Kmodern CLs, CAs and BBs¡K.he stayed 3 long turns (6 days) pounding the place and really nothing was left afloat¡K
Then we¡¦ve had some major losses¡Kthe force Z was lost during 2 battles between Java Sea and Colombo¡Kwhile the rest of the RN got bleeded to death during the siege of Karachi and at last, during the last terrible Scoodra mistake¡K then we had our CVEs sunk by a his sub fleet during the last 2 months, along with BB Warspite¡K
I don¡¦t post the DD losses¡Kjust know that I¡¦ve lost nearly 100 of them¡K

So yes, not much is left to me¡Kmy pacific fleet is staying with the CVs (all my old CAs and DDs and CLAAs, while the modern ships and the old CLs act separately in SCTFs and fighting in the front line).

I¡¦ve now ordered to my Cactus Force to move to Tulagi from Lunga, while the Boise TF and the Releigh one will got back to Ndeni to refuel. The CAs TF will bomb again Russell, while another SCTF ¡V flagship Columbia- will be moved to Tulagi.
Torpedo bombers are placed at Tulagi, Lunga and karakira¡K

We need to last 20 more days¡KI¡¦ll demand the impossible to my brave pilots¡Kthey will have to resist against overwhelming odds for 20 more days¡Kavoiding battles, fighting when needed¡Kstayin alive as an active force¡K
If needed I¡¦ll move my CV air groups to the theatre¡Kbut I¡¦ll use them as an extreme measure¡Kwould like to keep them for the Hellcats ƒº
My fast BBs are ready at Suva¡Kif he invades the Solomons I¡¦ll move them to the front line along with my CVs¡K
Our Eastern Army reached Hyderabad in India¡Kwe¡¦ll wait few more days and then we¡¦ll move towards Multan¡Kstill no sign of enemy air activity there¡Kpretty strange¡K

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: House Stark

Does anyone think that Rader might attempt a massive evacuation or withdrawal in late March-early April if he still hasn't attained air superiority? He's got to know that once the Hellcats will get involved he won't be able to win with numbers alone.

No, don't fool yourself here. Hellcats are good but in scen #2 Japan can advance all types of fighters very rapidly. Japan will have George, Tony, and Jacks all by mid 1943 and will have the Frank fighter by the end of the year. If Rader is willing to forgo other production (like he said he was) then he will easily outproduce Greyjoy in all types of aircraft until well into 1944. Pilot quality for Japan might be a issue but not as much as you would think. Scen #2 also gives Japan a boost in pilot quality and he can train very easily because he will have plenty of spare air units and plenty of airframes. I personally don't think Rader is using his planes as well as he should but he if he is willing to keep grinding, it might just break the Allied air force.

[House Stark]

True, as Greyjoy has said, Hellcats won't singlehandedly win the day. But they are better than most of the fighters he is producing now, and come in a much larger quality. Rader's next generation fighters can match the Hellcat in quality, but will he be able to double his fighter production again to keep up (I'm not sure how many fighters Greyjoy produces now, but 130 Hellcats is going to increase that by a large percentage)? Greyjoy is getting considerably positive kill ratios now, and that could very well spike for month or so before the advanced Japanese fighters come to play. And doesn't it seem that Rader's pilot quality is already suffering, if Greyjoy's current aircraft can getting such good kill ratios. Also keep in mind that Greyjoy now has a few squadrons of truly elite pilots comparable to the Japanese pre-war ones; Rader does not unless he's been hiding them well. I guess what I'm trying to say is, it seems like the arrival of the Hellcat might do a bit more in this game than in the average Scenario 2 game.

[GreyJoy]

Hi CrSutton and House of Stark.

The "math" is simple to my eyes here: i do produce 65 P40, 25 P39, 30 KittiHawk, 45 Wildcats, 20 P-38s, 16 SpitsVc, 32 Hurri MkIIc and 30 Corsairs.
So nearly 270 decent fighters every month. With 130 Hellcats, even not considering the plane superior quality, my production will be boosted
by 50%. That means i'll be able to resist more days than i am right now.
If i manage to keep this loss ratio (which is somewhere around 1-2), considering that most of the battles are fought on "point defence", right over my own bases,
the pilot losses ratio should be even more on my side. Probably 1-4 - at least -.
So on the long run the arrival of 130 brand new fighters is a valuable new asset.
if you add to this the fact that the Hellcat is defenetly better than the P-40K (which is the backbone of my fighter force) - better service rating and can fly higher than 31k -
i do think that the situation in the Solomons will improve. We'll not win the campaign with the Hellcat arrival, but we'll make another step towards the parity.

Rader is for sure able to outproduce me. No matter how good my pilots are, he's going to always have the air superiority in terms of numbers. I have to rely on a better pilot quality and on
a better pilot survivability. Nothing more.

However, i still have my crack navy CV pilots on reserve. If the situation will get worse before the Hellcats arrival, i can throw in a reserve of 216 wildcats, flown by the best of the best: my Navy pilots.
15 more turns to go before i can equipp the first Hellcats squadron...i think i can handle it.


Now i'd like to look at the map and at the overall situation in the Solomons.
He has built a chain of islands, with lots of operative AFs very close to the front line, facing my "only" 5 AFs (Lunga, Tassafaronga, Tulagi, Karakira and Ndeni).
He has brought 150k men in the islands south of Shortland (mots of them beinng engineers units and base forces).
But yet he has to rescue his 5 Divisions stuck at Tulagi. And to rescue them he has to invade and conquer the Solomons...Every day that passes by is a day used by the allies to reinforce their positions.
Soon Tuklagi will have its forts built up to lvl 6, with 880 AVs, fully prepped and supplied, with HQs supporting them.
If i was him i'd invade at Tassafaronga instead. But he had to do that earlier...maybe taking some risks but earlier...when i had only 113 AVs there.... now i managed to
bring the Tassa garrison up to 400, with 6 forts, CD guns, artillery units, tanks and 2 fully prepped regiments...and every day more men are flown in...
Yes, if he committs 5000 AVs he can probably take the base...but the risk is very very big imho...he will have to land facing CD guns, PT boats, mines...under the threat of 3 enemy AF 1 hex distant...my my CVs possibly lurking in the shades...
with my SCTFs very close and ready to come in...if i was him i'd be sweating with the idea of a big landing there...
he will need to close all my bases at once to achieve a decent "safety rate" and even with that...we've seen how went the landing of 5 divisions at Tulagi...and the landing was unopposed safe for the PTs...
the way i see it he's the one who has to risk the most. He's the one who has to committ.

the flow of supplies to the Solomons is going well. Every day we manage to bring in some 5/10 k supplies, both by air and by transport ships. These are all assets i can
efford to lose, so i don't care much if a transport out of 3 is going to get sunk if this means giving my men more chances of survival.

[Canoerebel]

I hereby proffer a resolution that GreyJoy cease and desist from any activity that impedes (A) playing the game, and (B) updating his AAR, to wit:  vacations, work, spending time with naturally hairy girlfriends.

[jeffk3510]

hmm

[Paladin1dcs]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I hereby proffer a resolution that GreyJoy cease and desist from any activity that impedes (A) playing the game, and (B) updating his AAR, to wit:  vacations, work, spending time with naturally hairy girlfriends.

I second this motion! Who needs women, there's a war to fight!

[GreyJoy]

What is that Jeff? A "NATURAL BUSH" ?[:D]

Ok, here we go guys

Mar 10, 11 1942

We moved our 150 CAP over Tulagi from Lunga. Our Bombardment TF (2 old CAs and 4 DDs) bombed Thousands Ships Bay during the night, sinking 2 more PBs in the process, then retired to Tulagi under the CAP cover
Our Boise SCTF (Boise CL + 6 Fletcher DDs) remained at Lunga (again a mistake of mine).
He sent more than 300 fighters to sweep Lunga, finding it empty. Only 150 enemy fighters swept Tulagi in different uncoordinated waves and our CAP did pretty well (1-1.5).
His Betties, Vals and Kates arrived without escort to bomb our CAs and got chewed by my CAP.
More Betties and Vals came for the Boise but none of them found the target and at least 15 enemy bombers were downed by my ship AA. That proves to my eyes the fact that the avg quality of his aircrews
is lowering....one year ago his Vals would have never missed a target like that without a CAP!
Air losses of the last 2 days are 50 to 112 in my favour with "only" 12 pilots KIA.

Our 4Es bombed Thousands Ships bay, doing some minor damage (bad weather) and losing 3 bombers, but my P-38s that followed ate alive what remained of his LRCAP, killing 15 enemies for no losses on my side
The second day our bombers were grounded due to the bad weather over Thousand S.B.

Our subs sunk a small TK near Menado and 2 PBs south of Truk...no losses on my side.


Now we've spotted a big CA TF steaming down on the slot...we have to decide what to do. We can avoid the combat or we can keep on playing and gambling...
The idea is to bomb Russell Island again with 1 CA + 3 CLs escorted by 4 DDs and covered by the Boise TF and then retire at Tassafaronga, under my CAP umbrella which will be moved there from Tulagi (i wanna remain very mobile with my fighters. Don't wanna give him a fixed target like Karachi).

In the meanwhile more supplies are flowing in using single ship xAK TFs...as long as i keep my big warships there his bombers are going to target those ships, leaving alone my transports...

I'm preparing another CAP-TRAP at Karakira and Tassafaronga...SDBs and Torpedo Bombers are based at Tulagi, Lunga and Karakira...if we're gonna face another surface engagement i wanna try to help my ships when the day will come. Range will be very short not to get involved in a counter CAP-Trap on my side.


Overall i'm happy cause i'm gaining time. This "dance" between Lunga, Tulagi, Tassa, Karakira and Ndeni is buying me the time i need to reinforce my position and to get those Hellcats...supplies and men are flowing to the Solomons at a good rate. We've lost some ships, we've lost some men and devices...but we're fighting well and when the time will come we'll be for sure more prepared and ready than 2 months ago (remember that the invasion of Tulagi took place at the first week of Jan 43...)

[GreyJoy]

Both Thousand and Russell are damaged but, somehow, are still active. He has brought 15 units to Russell (30k men), 9 to Thousand (15k men ) and 7 to Auki (5k men).
Overall my recon counts more than 300,000 enemies spread between Bouganville and the Solomons...not counting the 90 units at Rabaul...

[GreyJoy]

Mar 12, 13 1943

Another bloody turn for both of us.

The Enemy SCTF spotted yesterday went for Karakira, passing south of Lunga. It revealed to be a strong CA/CL TFs, composed of some of the best CAs Japan can put in line.
Our third TF which was ordered to move from Ndeni to cover Karakira, managed to intercept in the Channell the enemy TF. Thanks to the radar we suprised enemy ships, but our
firing wasn't precise and soon the japs had themself from the initial shock and started to fire back. We got some of them burning and they did the same to us...the battle was almost over with
a parity when a torp hit the Nashville CL, one of my most modern ship. The proud ship begun to list on her side and got afire...so the burning ship soon became a target too easy to be missed
in the dark night...we lost her with all her crew.
However we did did some good damage to the enemy and they had to divide their big TF. They sunk 4 precious AKs and their escort at karakira before starting to retire...
Their retire route was a bit strange with the fastest partial TF that passed by the iron bottom sound, while the slowest took the souther route.
Unfortunately my CA TF (CA Vincennes and Salt Lake City) found themself in the middle of the japanese ships right between Tulagi and Karakira. We had no ammo left from the yesterday bombardment mission
so the japs had easily the upper hand during the following battle. Nonetheless we managed to deliver some good shells on the enemy, sinking a DD and damaging another CA.
The Vincennes was left burning and sinking... while the japs, somehow, managed to retire in good order...

CA Nachi, left behind by her sisters, with only a DD as escort, was chased by the CL Leander's TF which however failed to reach the fleeing ship...My Subs Pogy,Halibut and GreyBack however did manage to follow here and
put a total of 4 finishes in her belly...she's reported sunk and i bet that, even with some FOW...she really is!

My Bombardment TF and my Boise TF did some minor damage to Russell Island and, after having sunk a couple of PBs and 1 APD, retire unharmed to Tassafaronga.

Then when the day came, the japs sent all they had to smash my forces in the area.
300 Fighters swept Tulagi and Lunga...just to find both of them empty, while waves of betties and Vals attacked my warships at Tassafaronga and karakira. The escorting zeros did good and some 40 Vals managed to catch the Vincennes CA at karakira. My CAP there is
never working fine...however the badly damaged CA (who survived of 2 months of intense battles right in the line of fire) was finally sunk by 12 250kg bombs that ended her days along with a DD of her escort.

No other major ships were lost and my CAp prooved to be good in all other circumstances, shooting down nearly 150 enemies for the loss of only 24 of my fighters.

Our SDBs and Torpedo bombers at Lunga did try to attack the fleiing enemy's CAs but his LRCAP did a wonderfull job, shooting down in droves my unescorted planes...

Our 4Es attacked Russell Island finding a stiff LRCAP there, but, somehow, managed to get through and to deliver their ordinances. However the base isn't damaged as i wish after 4 days of constant bombings.

Our subs did more good jobs, sinking 3 more PBs in different locations.

So by the end of the turn we've lost 1 CA, 1 CL, 1 DD and 4 AKs (damn!) in exchange of 1 CA and 1 DD. In the air we lost 54 planes against his 174...is that a good exchange ratio overall? Sincerly i don't know.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Kirakira at 116,140, Range 11,000 Yards

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
SOC-1 Seagull: 2 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CA Takao
CA Atago, Shell hits 2, on fire
CA Maya, Shell hits 2
CA Nachi, Shell hits 5
CA Suzuya, Shell hits 3
CL Jintsu
CL Tatsuta
DD Takanami
DD Onami
DD Asashio
DD Michishio
DD Natsugumo
DD Arare, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Kasumi
DD Harusame, Shell hits 1
DD Yamakaze, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Tadeshiwa
DD Takakaze

Allied Ships
CL Leander
CL Richmond, Shell hits 1, on fire
CL Raleigh, Shell hits 3, on fire
CL Nashville, Shell hits 18, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
DD Lardner, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Bailey, Shell hits 3
DD Anderson, Shell hits 3
DD Hammann
DD McCall, Shell hits 2
DD Maury, Shell hits 2




Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 35% moonlight: 12,000 yards
R


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Kirakira at 116,140, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Takao, Shell hits 1, on fire
CA Atago, on fire
CA Maya, on fire
CA Nachi, on fire
CA Suzuya
CL Jintsu
CL Tatsuta, Shell hits 1
DD Takanami
DD Onami
DD Asashio
DD Michishio, Shell hits 1
DD Natsugumo
DD Arare, heavy fires
DD Kasumi
DD Harusame, Shell hits 1
DD Yamakaze, Shell hits 8, and is sunk
DD Tadeshiwa
DD Takakaze, Shell hits 2, on fire

Allied Ships
CA Salt Lake City, Shell hits 4, on fire
CA Vincennes, Shell hits 19, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Benham
DD Lang
DD Sterett, Shell hits 3
DD Dale, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage




Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 35% moonlight: 12,000 yards




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Kirakira at 116,140, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Nachi, on fire
CA Suzuya
CL Jintsu
CL Tatsuta
DD Takanami, Shell hits 1
DD Onami
DD Asashio
DD Michishio
DD Natsugumo

Allied Ships
xAK Liloa, Shell hits 59, and is sunk
xAK Admiral Halstead, Shell hits 31, and is sunk
xAP Prominent, Shell hits 15, and is sunk
xAP Morinda, Shell hits 20, and is sunk


Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 8 (3 destroyed, 5 disabled)




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Kirakira at 116,140, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Nachi, on fire
CA Suzuya
CL Jintsu
CL Tatsuta
DD Takanami
DD Onami
DD Asashio
DD Michishio
DD Natsugumo

Allied Ships
AK Crater, Shell hits 52, and is sunk
AK Leonis, Shell hits 16, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
PC Kimball, Shell hits 11, and is sunk





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Kirakira at 116,140, Range 10,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Suzuya
CL Jintsu
CL Tatsuta
DD Takanami
DD Onami
DD Asashio
DD Michishio

Allied Ships
AK Arided, Shell hits 41, and is sunk
AK Cassiopeia, Shell hits 22, and is sunk
SC PC-578, Shell hits 5, heavy fires
PC Jackson, Shell hits 4, and is sunk





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Kirakira at 115,139, Range 29,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Nachi
DD Natsugumo

Allied Ships
CL Leander
CL Richmond
CL Raleigh
DD Lardner
DD Bailey
DD Anderson
DD Hammann
DD McCall
DD Maury



Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 29,000 yards
Japanese TF attempts to evade combat
Range increases to 29,000 yards...
Japanese Escort TF evades combat


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Kirakira at 115,139

Japanese Ships
CA Nachi, Torpedo hits 1
DD Natsugumo

Allied Ships
SS Pogy





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Lunga at 113,139

Japanese Ships
CA Nachi, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Natsugumo

Allied Ships
SS Halibut



SS Halibut launches 4 torpedoes at CA Nachi
Halibut diving deep ....
DD Natsugumo fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Natsugumo attacking submerged sub ....
DD Natsugumo fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Natsugumo fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Natsugumo fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Lunga at 113,138

Japanese Ships
CA Nachi, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Natsugumo

Allied Ships
SS Grayback



SS Grayback launches 4 torpedoes at CA Nachi
Grayback diving deep ....
DD Natsugumo fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Natsugumo fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Natsugumo fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Natsugumo fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Natsugumo fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

[GreyJoy]

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[GreyJoy]

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[GreyJoy]

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[GreyJoy]

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[GreyJoy]

So the second big naval clash is done.
I must say i'm happy about the results.
He didn't broke my back yet. Since the beginning of the
Solomons campaign i think we've achievede an overall parity in terms
Of ships lost and damages inflicted.
But, above all, i like the idea that Rader doesn't feel
Too safe anymore in sending in his big ships. Mines, PTs, planes and above all my surface ships showed to be able, even when outnumbered and outgunned, to inflict enough damages to leave a bad taste in his mouth.
So we're now at the middle of march and we're still fighting!

[JohnDillworth]

Any Sign of his BB's? How about yours? I believe you should have 4 new ones now. I'm sure neither one of you wants to commit them with all that air power about, but you should both have enough fast ones to bombard and get away.