3.4 supply related question ...

[Sensei.Tokugawa]

Greetings again everybody.

What is the case of units surrounded and subjected to destruction the next turn? Under the previous patch it was that those were not deemed unsupplied until the next turn so if they got surrounded and immediately destroyed by the enemy the equipment which was not lost due to a hostile action was returned to the replacement pool. Now I see in my save game .sal file that the enemy units who managed to encircle completely some of my divisions have already rendered them unsupplied even though I go the second and they were surrounded no sooner than in this turn which hasn't been concluded by me yet - therefore I think it may be due to the new supply rules and hence my invsetigation.

Is it then the case here that on getting destroyed the next turn no equipment gets saved to the replacement pool of the surrounded units? Does it - the fact that some units are destroyed while encircled and unsupplied - affect their ability to reconstitute later on - certainly regardless of the fact that reduced ammount of materiel in the replacement pool naturally limits both the ability of the still fighting units to recuperate and the rate on which the reconstituting units get rebuilt ...?

The situation observed refers to the Entente forces situation in the early stages of the Schlieffen Plan in Falotti's "The Great War 1914 - 1918" scenario if that matters at all.

Please advise.

[sPzAbt653]

Its not New Supply, its the New Turn Order that has changed what you are talking about. I assume you are playing with the New Turn Order Rules, in which case the calculations are done each half turn.

Under the New Turn Order, any unit that starts the Half Turn in Unsupplied status will not return equipment to the pool. So if the enemy surrounds, isolates, and then destroys your units all in the same half turn, those units are still Supplied and will return equipment to the pool. While those units remain Supplied for the enemies Half Turn, the situation is recalculated at the beginning of your Half Turn, and those units will become Unsupplied.

We also discussed this briefly here :

tm.asp?m=2851026

[Sensei.Tokugawa]

Thanks a lot.

Whatever the reason for is -I studied the discussion under the link provided and supply here is the issue; the Entente is facing a grim ordeal. The rest is a technical chatter. Hard to say whether it is fair or accurate in terms of the realism of the battlefield, but I do not pity playing under the new rules - after all hat should be an improvement enhancing the accuracy of the battleground related circumstances.

We'll se where it goes. Is it true that under the new set of rules if the advanced ones are applied the Burma campaign is unplayable due to the supply shortages? I think I have seen such opinion somewhere at the forums. I also experienced a stranage situation , playing the "Russo - Japanese War 1904 - 05"; my opponent upgraded his version while playing our PBEM and we had to move the game under the new patch - a few turns later the Japs who overrun Vladivostok run virtually completely off supply and their campaign ground to a halt, resulting in my opponent's prompt capitulation ( I was winning soundly anyway, Port Arthur has never been lost nor the MSR from Harbin ...). as it turned out when I studied the final situation each Japanese units and subunit was on 1% supply - bizarre as the kept the port open and had their corps and divisional supply trains along with rspective HQs everywhere nearby . Yet everyone of them was well in the deep red as if Tokyo cut them off completely - I didn't block the port or anything else. What the ... ?

[sPzAbt653]

Hard to say whether it is fair or accurate in terms of the realism ...

Well, its the same for both sides with the New Rules, whereas it wasn't under the old rules. I'm still thinking that I support 'Isolated' as an additional new step in the process. That would mean units that were supplied in the previous turn but cannot trace a supply line this turn would be isolated (no effect, just a state). Then, units that are isolated at the beginning of their turn and cannot trace a supply line would become unsupplied (with its effects). This would mean that under the New Rules, both players would have their turn to reestablish a supply line.

Is it true that under the new set of rules if the advanced ones are applied the Burma campaign is unplayable due to the supply shortages?

I haven't played Burma or even looked at it, but it bears repeating that if the scenario briefing (for any scenario) does not specify using New Rules, DO NOT use them. This would be automatic for any scenario that is described in the scenario briefing as being pre-3.4. Using New Rules in these situations can only work out negatively.