NKVD supermen

[Ketza]

Gods sake please nerf these guys. Deliberate attack #1.

[Ketza]

Deliberate attack # 2

[Ketza]

And whats waiting? Even more of them.

These security regiments are sucking my MPs dry. I was hasty attacking them but changed tactics to deliberate attacks to try and kill them off or rout them quicker. These are not isolated results either its happened in my game against Timmyab far to often and is actually impacting things on a macro scale.

Nothing wrong with Timmys use of them as they are in the game but this is ridiculous.

[Empire101]

ORIGINAL: Ketza

Gods sake please nerf these guys. Deliberate attack #1.

I TOTALLY agree[:@] They have driven me insane in the campaign against my brother [:@]

[Jakerson]

By spending time in army in real life I can say that. Border guards in most of countries witch these NKVD security units represent are specially trained for delaying enemy advance if country is surprise attacked. They are equipped and trained to blow up bridges, deploy mines and deploy snipers and guerilla warfare in short notice. Removing their ability for delaying would be step toward removing realism and historical use of border guards.    

[Flaviusx]

I love these guys. [:)] A lot of folks want to rush them off to the Finnish border or somesuch thing, but I use them for delaying tactics on the actual front.

[Empire101]

By spending time in army in real life I can say that. Border guards in most of countries witch these NKVD security units represent are specially trained for delaying enemy advance if country is surprise attacked. They are equipped and trained to blow up bridges, deploy mines and deploy snipers and guerilla warfare in short notice. Removing their ability for delaying would be step toward removing realism and historical use of border guards.

Well excuse me, if we are going to throw Army Service into the ring, I happened to serve for 8 years in the Army, and these so called 'border units' are nothing more than glorified secret policeman.
They are NKVD units, trained in interrogation, internal police duties, collecting information, 'encouraging' units to fight to the last man, and in the case of some units, just commiting cold blooded murder.

NKVD units were specialists in knocking on your door at 2am, and helping you disappear, if you were lucky, to Moscow to face a court martial. If you were'nt so lucky, you went for a walk in the nearest woods, never to be seen again. They were NOT specialist engineer/demolitions/partisan warfare experts.

[Flaviusx]

Border guards are, well, border guards. Beria wasn't sending these boys off to arrest and execute the enemies of the state, etc. He had actual nasty and evil secret police types for that.

The NKVD was a big organization doing many things, not all of which involved Lubyanka.

[Empire101]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Border guards are, well, border guards. Beria wasn't sending these boys off to arrest and execute the enemies of the state, etc. He had actual nasty and evil secret police types for that.

The NKVD was a big organization doing many things, not all of which involved Lubyanka.

You have a point....but they certainly were not specialist engineer units blowing bridges etc ( although I'm sure some did. ).
They were, as you so succinctly put it, just border guards, pure and simple.

[glvaca]

Be that as it may, in most games of this complexity, you just overrun the critters and be done.

Having no pursuit phase not only makes tanks ineffective but only makes this possible.

+1 for fixing this.

[Empire101]

ORIGINAL: glvaca

Be that as it may, in most games of this complexity, you just overrun the critters and be done.

Having no pursuit phase not only makes tanks ineffective but only makes this possible.

+1 for fixing this.

Excellent point [:)]

[Ketza]

ORIGINAL: Jakerson

By spending time in army in real life I can say that. Border guards in most of countries witch these NKVD security units represent are specially trained for delaying enemy advance if country is surprise attacked. They are equipped and trained to blow up bridges, deploy mines and deploy snipers and guerilla warfare in short notice. Removing their ability for delaying would be step toward removing realism and historical use of border guards.    

So what your saying is a bunch of guys standing around in an open field with submachine guns, rifles, no artillery and no forts can stand up to determined deliberate attacks by 2 seperate 100% toe German infantry divisions over the course of a weeks time and remain a cohesive fighting unit...

[8|]

[Empire101]

ORIGINAL: Ketza


ORIGINAL: Jakerson

By spending time in army in real life I can say that. Border guards in most of countries witch these NKVD security units represent are specially trained for delaying enemy advance if country is surprise attacked. They are equipped and trained to blow up bridges, deploy mines and deploy snipers and guerilla warfare in short notice. Removing their ability for delaying would be step toward removing realism and historical use of border guards.


So what your saying is a bunch of guys standing around in an open field with submachine guns, rifles, no artillery and no forts can stand up to determined deliberate attacks by 2 seperate 100% toe German infantry divisions over the course of a weeks time and remain a cohesive fighting unit...



M'Lud, I rest my case.


+1 Ketza[:D]

[LiquidSky]

I find them fairly easy to dispose of. After the initial hit by a division, I will break down into three regiments and hit it with them (individually), since the security unit is very weak strength wise. Each loss lowers its morale until they finally go poof from loss of men, or rout.

The game doesnt seem to have an overwhelming odds threshold where the unit being attacked is overrun, so it is more efficient to hit it at around 10-1 odds then 200-1.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky


I find them fairly easy to dispose of. After the initial hit by a division, I will break down into three regiments and hit it with them (individually), since the security unit is very weak strength wise. Each loss lowers its morale until they finally go poof from loss of men, or rout.

The game doesnt seem to have an overwhelming odds threshold where the unit being attacked is overrun, so it is more efficient to hit it at around 10-1 odds then 200-1.

That tactic costs alot of MPs, as Regts pay big movement penalties in enemy territory.

NKVD Regts should not be holding up Germans divisions over and over

[Jakerson]

ORIGINAL: Ketza
So what your saying is a bunch of guys standing around in an open field with submachine guns, rifles, no artillery and no forts can stand up to determined deliberate attacks by 2 seperate 100% toe German infantry divisions over the course of a weeks time and remain a cohesive fighting unit...

It is perfectly possible to deploy troops in the way that it is hard to destroy them. Numbers dont tell the whole story. Sometimes larger side with tanks and artillery is totally decimated by side who barely have any.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tolvajarvi

4000 men attacking against 20 000 men supported with tanks and artillery.
Finns lost 350 casulties Soviet 10 000men and this battle happened in real life. Effects like this are hard to simulate in computer games and have balance but still it is perfectly possible hold even larger forces with small number of troops and without artillery or forts.

[Ketza]

ORIGINAL: Jakerson

ORIGINAL: Ketza
So what your saying is a bunch of guys standing around in an open field with submachine guns, rifles, no artillery and no forts can stand up to determined deliberate attacks by 2 seperate 100% toe German infantry divisions over the course of a weeks time and remain a cohesive fighting unit...

It is perfectly possible to deploy troops in the way that it is hard to destroy them. Numbers dont tell the whole story. Sometimes larger side with tanks and artillery is totally decimated by side who barely have any.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tolvajarvi

4000 men attacking against 20 000 men supported with tanks and artillery.
Finns lost 350 casulties Soviet 10 000men and this battle happened in real life. Effects like this are hard to simulate in computer games and have balance but still it is perfectly possible hold even larger forces with small number of troops and without artillery or forts.

Tanks and unusable artillery in the middle of a frozen forest being hacked to pieces by ski troops is a much different situation then a bunch of border guards in the open. Your example is not even remotely close to what I am talking about. I really would not have an issue if the NKVD were in a swamp or heavy forest as I would give the defender a higher ability to slip away.

If you cannot see that this is an unreasonable outcome then there really is no way I can convince you otherwise.

[glvaca]

Speaking for myself, I'm not saying a freak event once in a while wouldn't be fun. But as a rule, always, hmmm...

I haven't checked the link, but wouldn't that be high quality fins, in highly forested terrain, on homeland against very poorly led and trained Russians?

[Jakerson]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
That tactic costs alot of MPs, as Regts pay big movement penalties in enemy territory.

NKVD Regts should not be holding up Germans divisions over and over

Splitting divisions for Regiments have low utility in offence becouse of high penalty in MP use when moving enemy controlled hexes. Regiments cannot paint adjacent hexes either.

But regiments have their use in defence mostly it is good tactic if used right but I would not use them in offence.

[Jakerson]

ORIGINAL: glvaca

Speaking for myself, I'm not saying a freak event once in a while wouldn't be fun. But as a rule, always, hmmm...

I haven't checked the link, but wouldn't that be high quality fins, in highly forested terrain, on homeland against very poorly led and trained Russians?

Finns weren’t professional soldiers either 95% of manpower in Finns army were civilian conscripts. Many finns didnt have even military equipment other than rifle. Many troops bring their own clothes and gear to war since there was not any in the military other to give than rifle.