WB's Moment of Truth

Anzac · Post by **Anzac** » Thu Dec 21, 2000 7:59 am

Just finished your Kursk scenario WB.

It was a hard graft but eventually thanks to my undoubted skill

I managed to seize all the objectives by turn 19.

Mind you those mines were killers!

I lost a lot of tanks and almost all of my a/c's to those.

But unfortunately for Ivan I was just too good and my Tiger's obliterated the wave of T-34's coming at me.

And this is where I think that there was a weakness if you don't mind me saying so.

There wasn't enough tank attacks by the Russians. In the real battle the LAH was rushed by hundreds of tanks but yet in this scenario the attacks are piffling. I was hoping to get much more opposition then this!
Sure there were heaps of those pesky pillboxes and bunkers but good ol' smoke and manoeveuring counted them out.

So as much as I enjoyed this excellent scenario could you think about making it harder for us hardened vets?

Results
German tank losses - 30 (inc. 9 a/c's)
Russian tank losses - 42 (inc. 5 a/c's)
German casualties - 389 men
Russian casualties - 772 men

Score - German/12,672 vs. Russian/3,951
Marginal victory for the Germans.

Prokhorovaka falls, Kursk next!

Keep 'em coming WB!

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Anzac

"Lest We Forget"

Figmo · Post by **Figmo** » Thu Dec 21, 2000 11:00 am

Oh No!! Now you've gone and done it!!

Now he'll have to make some harder ones - ARGH!!

He got in that mood a while back and made this SP3 campaign against the Iraqies - and it took me three trys to get past the first battle - but it was fun!!!

Figmo

skukko · Post by **skukko** » Thu Dec 21, 2000 1:13 pm

Indeed now you've done it

Ok, back to topic: I've played this scenario against human. I was the axis player. 2/3 of my losses were from mines. Nice way to find out where those mines exactly were was: 'I don't like the way your squad performed, sgt.-Go and find yourself a mine'

It was cool scenario where sovjets really had no chance against germans combined forces act. I drove one Rad-car right to the mine at my first turn. Get pissed off(mines!) and smoked whole area, the hill and its banks and ran out of smoke pretty soon. Then I had two squads of engineers (after I feared that I don't have any) in one hex to clear the road. Half of the game went clearing one path thru the village. And when my forces finally(walking) reached the village and get first look beyond it: Whoom! Pillboxes waiting just for that... I did get insane and drove whole company of my panzer n:s at the village's surroundings and shooted all the smoke with D -key at once they got first boom at hull. I did let tanks stay in places they just occupied and called for infantry. It was so heavy of smoke on that hill, that even today sovjet commander don't know what happened at there in that day. Tigers? They were flanking from the beginning of the game from west.(there was 3 ATpillboxes, mines and few para' -squads) Tigers were there on the road sitting on the one mine. One mine... Gosh! When I drove recon there with minenramtank it didn't notice that mine, it was killed before ot reached area. Same happened to the next tank. AT-bunkers showed their capabilities. I rushed with all Tigers to the place and took out one pillbox with one single shot of a 88Kwk. My - I was yelling: Miracle! Then Tigers located other two AT-boxes and screened them with smoke. After done this they continued their flank-operation. First Tiger stopped when it did get a shot from somewhere front of it. I drove not-so-buttoned Tiger to same hex, but it couln't see a thing. Finally there were four Tigers at one hex looking after one shot. Beside was At-bunker, mines allover the place, and all the Cat's sitting on one single mine. It didn't explode! When I was moving again next turn, without warning Bang and I jumped off the chair and had almost a heartattack. Mine just blowed one Tiger and did get others to sitting ducks to any armor or infantry attacks. And there were many. It took four turns to get at the place one minenram to clear up the hex. ( First I sent engineer squad at the place: They were sitting on Panzer IV and surprisingly they got killed when they drove on mine...) Tigers came back to use 3 turns before Sovjets surrended. One flag was in So-hands and he had almost one whole platoon of infantry left... It was victory, but not decisive one. Russian AC? They were shooted down in two turns. Recon Rads took them all

I had none of problem with So-tanks. Mines were my problem, but now I can manage any minefield in the quick way, I've learned míne.

Now you said it. Let WB create harder stuff for us...

mosh

Anzac · Post by **Anzac** » Fri Dec 22, 2000 6:19 am

Nice one skukko! You sound like you had a lot of fun like I did. Yes those mines were killers weren't they?

But I perhaps was a little more cautious than you. I lost almost all off my a/c's doing forward recon at the start, and then started to realise this place was dangerous!

So considering there was 25 turns I took a careful approach in my advance. I used one Minenram tank to detect minefields heading up Hill 224? He survived thanks to my supporting armour giving him cover. That was until one of those pillboxes hit him and the crew baled. Then I used pioneer sections to advance the rest of the way.

Further to the west I was heavily enveloped in minefields and also under heavy artillery and air attack. I drove the other Minenram tank up the road towards the obstacles in front of that Russian Para section. Then I calmly and out of sight of the enemy disassembled his roadblock. Once that was done I poured my waiting armour thru the gap.

My advancing infantry was having a very hard time though. They were being pounded by 122mm and getting nowhere. Then once I had cleared a mine free lane I brought up the heavies.

I advanced two Tigers up with the rest of my armour along the western road that had been cleared. I also brought Wittman and his boys up the road which was mercifully free of mines to that same village. The other two Tigers were engaged with some T-34s to the east and one of them was knocked out. But those T-34s never survived to tell the tale!

Once I had reached the heights looking out towards Prokhorovka the Russkies had no chance! I used the superior range and firepower of my Tigers to destroy any Russian tanks headed my way.

Then I used my awesome 150mm batteries to quiet the Russians in this sector ready for the final assault. Like you said they had no chance. They only had a handful of tanks left and I took the easternmost objective in Prokhorovka with some Stu-42 tanks on turn 19.

I don't know about the rest of you guys but how did your infantry get on? Mine were miles back from my armour and hardly got a look on in this battle. Added to this was the problem of all those pillboxes and bunkers. Infantry definitely had a hard time of it in this battle!

Anyway the moral of this story is every SPWAW gamer should try this scenario at least once. It's a very good battle and great fun to play. I just wish WB had made it a little more harder!

Oh no now I've really done it...

Happy gaming folks.

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Anzac

"Lest We Forget"

skukko · Post by **skukko** » Fri Dec 22, 2000 6:21 pm

Indeed I had fun. While clearing the way thru the hill I had all my panzerIV:s hammering left flank. Everything that moved did get payment. I'm not sure if I'd have same opportunity against AI, but now I did get human to run his infantry and most of his armor to left flank. My infantry though did get their salvos, as they were all the time as a shield to my armor finding those mines(and blowing 'em)

Finally on some turn between 17-21 he surrended.

As you said, good battle and should be fought once to learn how deal with fire and minefield-clearings. I don't use for example those minefield errors that AI does when defending, I'll go straight thru the lines.

mosh

Charles22 · Post by **Charles22** » Fri Dec 22, 2000 10:01 pm

For those dealing with minefields I have this: I got one SGIIIF stuck on a slope, with it facing the hill after it hit a mine that demobilised it. There was practically no way it would ever be able to fire it's gun, and this left it a sitting duck should "any" units of the enemy pop by (interesting how I've never ran into that situation before, where a demobilised unit had absolutely no hope of shooting anything, and yet stuck out like a sore thumb). Anyway, tip of the day here, I abandoned the SG, and left the crew in the hex. Guess what? He cleared some mines next turn (so there is a point to crews afterall). Though the turn after that he jumped back into the SG. From research I did in the first battle of Watchword Freedom, most of your foot troops 'will not' set off the mines if the mines have been spotted beforehand (though these troops were unsuppressed - perhaps suppressed ones would more easily set off the mines), when you enter the hex with them (I can't speak as to their safety, should they then 'exit' that hex with mines still present), so that if you leave them in the hex they'll clear mines quite well; it's not just engineers that clear. I do have to wonder, however, that since infantry have to be in the hex to clear mines, if the engineers don't "have to" be "out" of the hex, to clear mines. I'm not sure if I've ever seen an engineer clear mines from it's own hex. Perhaps, there's a priority routine for engineers, where the engineer will first check the direction it's facing, and if it clears mines that direction, then it will not clear mines in it's own hex. So I wonder, do engineers clear mines in their own hex? Anyone know this for a fact (seen it happen beyond all dispute, regardless of what the manual says)?

Alexandra · Post by **Alexandra** » Fri Dec 22, 2000 11:08 pm

[if the engineers don't "have to" be "out" of the hex, to clear mines. I'm not sure if I've ever seen an engineer clear mines from it's own hex.

Yes, Engineer's clear mines from the hex they are in. Mine have done so quite a bit in U2R. Of course, if the Engineer Platoon is close together, all three can clear the hex of the stuck squad, so to get it able to move safely faster.

Alex

Charles22 · Post by **Charles22** » Sat Dec 23, 2000 1:21 am

Alexandra: (a girlie in the forum, aye?) Do you realise, therefore, that an engineer unit clears 'twice' what an infantry unit does? I sure didn't (Did you know they can 'create them as well - that's why I have two platoons in core, now I know they can do so much more; what a deal). So, when, one day, I forget the first Watchword Freedom battle and have played WWII campaign enough to do so, I will try to recall this engineer mine lifting having twice the potential I thought it had. In my first battle, previously (I will replay it because of the new patch), I had two Elefants, which didn't destroy a single SP AT unit, because it was held up by engineers lifting mines outside the mine hexes. I bet mineclearing tanks don't clear both their hex and the facing hex as well, though (think about it. The tanks would need flail to reach beyond 50 yds. in order to do two hexes, for we are talking about only one tank, and not a squad of men, such as with the engineers).

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Sat Dec 23, 2000 1:33 am

Harder, huh? Okay....

The campaign, "The Victors," will be released in less than a week. Nice way to end this year and start another.

I won't say it's hard. I'll let you tell me this. You might want to look over the tear-soaked e-mails of the testers as they vent their frustration and plead for mercy

(Great job, by the way, my hard-working testers!)

No, I won't say it's hard, but I'll be issuing two versions, a hard core toe-stomper and a little less demanding one.

The more difficult of the two can be won, but I would not look for too many decisives in this one

By now you should be more than ready to prove me wrong. Good...very good

Watch for the announcement.

Wild Bill the Merciless

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

[This message has been edited by Wild Bill (edited December 22, 2000).]

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Sat Dec 23, 2000 1:36 am

Some very nice reports on "Moment of Truth" by the way, warriors. I enjoyed reading them.
Wild Bill

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

Anzac · Post by **Anzac** » Sun Dec 24, 2000 10:40 am

No worries WB! And did I mention that your MOT scenario was too easy did I? DOH!!!

Big mistake eh? Other players have already alluded to me that it's a mistake to call your scenarios 'easy'. Well I have to admit I did find your Hunt 'em Down scenario (the harder version)a step up, and I definitely did find it a challenge. I got a very narrow draw. A loss in my eyes.

Anyway keep 'em coming and I'm about to start WF now that 4.5 has come out. Merry Xmas to your family and have a Happy New Year!

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Anzac

"Lest We Forget"

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Sun Dec 24, 2000 7:37 pm

The same to you and yours, Mate. Enjoy that warm weather as we shiver in our combat boots

The Frozen Wild Bill

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games