1942 Axis strategy?

[Cavalry Corp]

I alway thought this unit was one of th best Divs in the combined army??

[Cavalry Corp]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

ORIGINAL: Ketza

Part of the difference was the 21 Panzer and Panzer grenadier units and multiple other divisions that were in France and Italy. Also the Luftwaffe was practically non existent on the eastern front in the summer of 44. The 2nd front recipe for disaster truly came to fruition in the summer of 44.

No doubt...was it that many? I am unclear on how the Panzers were distributed. I know during the June-July-Aug timeframe, it was approximately:

FRANCE: 2,9,11,21,Panzer Lehr; 1,2,9,10,12 SS Panzer; 17ss PzG. That is 11 in France.

ITALY: 26 Panzer; 3,15,29,90 PzG; HG Panzer; Hoch Und Deutschmeister Div; 16ss PzG. I might be missing a Panzer Div. That's 8 or 9.

I don't think anything was in Yugoslavia or Greece, though some of the SS formations in Yugoslavia were sometimes "upgraded" on paper.

I would be intersting if there were WITE campaign variants such as No Italy, no Normandy etc or more randomness on the date of the ops, would make the situation in Russia much more interesting
cav

[glvaca]

ORIGINAL: Ketza

Part of the difference was the 21 Panzer and Panzer grenadier units and multiple other divisions that were in France and Italy. Also the Luftwaffe was practically non existent on the eastern front in the summer of 44. The 2nd front recipe for disaster truly came to fruition in the summer of 44.

Also, the Germans expected the Sovs to attack in the South and most Pz Divs and/or Pz Gren. Divs were concentrated there. If memory serves only one Pz Div was in reserve at Mogilev or Gomel during Bagration and could do little.

In Bagration, the Sovs got their clean breakthrough, followed with rapid penetration by the tank armies. Something that eluded them in 1943.

[Ketza]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

ORIGINAL: Ketza

Part of the difference was the 21 Panzer and Panzer grenadier units and multiple other divisions that were in France and Italy. Also the Luftwaffe was practically non existent on the eastern front in the summer of 44. The 2nd front recipe for disaster truly came to fruition in the summer of 44.

No doubt...was it that many? I am unclear on how the Panzers were distributed. I know during the June-July-Aug timeframe, it was approximately:

FRANCE: 2,9,11,21,Panzer Lehr; 1,2,9,10,12 SS Panzer; 17ss PzG. That is 11 in France.

ITALY: 26 Panzer; 3,15,29,90 PzG; HG Panzer; Hoch Und Deutschmeister Div; 16ss PzG. I might be missing a Panzer Div. That's 8 or 9.

I don't think anything was in Yugoslavia or Greece, though some of the SS formations in Yugoslavia were sometimes "upgraded" on paper.

There was also the 116th PZ posted near Rouen. I recall some other units that arrived in the theatre mainly PG divisions from Germany as well as misc armored brigades that arrived late in August and September.

That is a lot of firepower in the West that would have made a difference in the east for sure.

[Peltonx]

I thought this thread was about 42 and not 43 to 45?

You guys jacked the thread [:-]

[Peltonx]

As of the next patch the 2.6 to 1 ratio will be lower.

Also the ratio can move up or down depending on how much industry is destoryed.

As far as the jacking goes, the fate of the war is detemined during the 41 summer long before 1944. The issue is not manpower, but production.

Pelton

[marty_01]

ORIGINAL: leehunt27@bloomberg.net

I am playing the 1942 GC against a PBEM Russian opponent. As the Axis i am discovering that my best option seems to be wiping out as many Russian units as possible. It is mud, October 1942, and my summer offensive has bagged about 1.2 million Russians, including a large number of Tank Corps. I've lost about 200k Germans. I took Rostov and Voronzeh but backed away from the Caucausus and Stalingrad, instead focusing on the center. I waited a while before launching massive Panzer attacks SE of Moscow (seems a bit gamey to try a Kaluga pocket first few turns, Russian player doesn't have enough AP's to react realistically)-- attacks all focused on destroying the Russian army and not holding any space. The line is generally straight and consolidated.

I'm not sure how good a strategy this is, but the "Clausewitz" option of bagging Russians seems the most promising. Its not impossible I could take Moscow, but only if can lure the Russian 1943 offensive into a trap I think. My PBEM opponent and I agreed that trench warfare, with 5 lines of Fortification 4 or 5 hexes behind each front is gamey and not a choice for us. So the map be a jumbled swirl of offensives and counteroffensives until one side breaks...

Results from one of my PBEM Games. It’s a GC 1941-45.

Just a little background regarding the 1941 portion of this GC41-45 game: I was severally schwacked in the fall of 1941 by the Partisan errors in one of the patches a couple months back. The massed partisan rail destruction totally threw my Army Group Center supplies out of whack during the critical push on Moscow during late summer-early fall. This continued through much of the blizzard – i.e. not only were my units suffering the blizzard effects but most units were also out of supply for the first half of the blizzard due to the destruction of my rail net by Partisans. However I still managed to destroy about 3.8-million Russians by the time the blizzard hit. I only managed to grab one hex of Moscow due to lack of supplies. I also easily nabbed Leningrad early in the summer of 1941 and most of the Donbass. I promptly lost Moscow and the Donbass during the blizzard. I was basically pushed back to the Dnepr -- Minsk -- Vitebsk -- Rzhev -- to lake Onega in the far north.

We are currently on turn 69 and about to enter the second fall\winter cycle of the GC. I have literally managed to encircle and destroy some 4-million men between Jun and Oct of 1942. Yet the Soviet Army is still enormous. Even with extremely mediocre operational level play during the summer of 1942, my opponent is still going into fall\winter of 1942 with a relatively huge army.


Destroyed Soviet Units as of Oct 8, 1942.

http://s590.photobucket.com/albums/ss34 ... dunits.jpg

Ground Losses:

http://s590.photobucket.com/albums/ss34 ... losses.jpg

Comparison of Overall Strength as of Oct 8 1942:

http://s590.photobucket.com/albums/ss34 ... ct1942.jpg

The point being – even if you manage to break the level 4 fort stalemate that seems to inevitably follow the first winter\spring – and get some fluidity back into Axis Summer of 1942 operations, the amount of destruction the Axis seem to have to inflict upon the in-game Red Army during the Summer of 1942 in order to have any sort of effect is nothing less than staggering.

I have literally destroy via a series of large encirclements every Soviet Corps, Division and Brigade from about Kursk southward – aside from 20-odd divisions that were hunkered down west of Kuban. This to include numerous formations railed southward from the Moscow and Torzhok-Vyshny Volochek areas.

This all has me wondering if in-game Soviet Man power production and integration of conscripts into formations and the creation of new Soviet formations within the game is completely out of wack.

On a different note…don’t forget the air war.

Air Losses. My opponent has been doing the click-fest approach to Luftwaffe airbase attacks. As you can see from the figure below, having a strong wrist and the patience to click on the airbase attack button over and over will pay great dividends in terms of gaining air superiority. The overall kill ratio is only about 2.6:1. This in spite of the vast majority of air combat occurring over Axis Territory – i.e. read here his pilots & air crews get shot down over Axis controlled territory. They should in theory suffer a higher rate of attrition in terms of pilots and air crews bailing out of damaged aircraft over enemy territory and subsequently getting captured. Conversely my pilots and aircrews that bail out over friendly controlled areas during airbase attack click-fests should be surviving at a higher rate to fight another day.

Most of my axis operations during 1942 have had to suffer through massive soviet interdiction and ground support as the Luftwaffe just cant keep up with the huge glut of Soviet aircraft and the inability to effectively intercept and attrite Soviet Airbase attack click fests.

http://s590.photobucket.com/albums/ss34 ... losses.jpg