Good scenarios for beginners?

[Ctaardvark]

What would you suggest are a few good starting scenarios for a beginner at BFTB? I've played the tutorial/demo (although not since buying the game) and I've played Battle of the Roadblocks (with varying levels of success). I then moved onto Mahey crossroads as it seemed to have few units and appeared to be easier to organise, however my butt has been severely kicked each time.

Also are there any settings I can adjust to make learning the game a little easier and slowly drip feed in the evil AI?

Thanks for any help offered.

[Lieste]

Hofen Ho-Down is fairly simple, but easy to do fairly well at with care.... or you can get shredded if caught in the open.

The US generally gets an easier time attacking - he has more armour, motorised infantry and flexible/SP artillery, and German troops are usually poorer quality and short on long-range anti-armour weapons, but I find the Germans reward bite and hold tactics even when mostly foot/horse.

It is important to not get bogged down with making a perfect attack - invariably the most important element will be hit by artillery/air just at the wrong moments. Also try to not adjust missions that are still running (but do allow an attack that isn't going to completely clear the objective to dig-in, rather than bleed itself white in the open in front of his entrenchments). The large reserves that you should hold back are used to turn his flank/continue the assault while the first group prepares to hold/resume the advance beyond.

You must practice economy of effort and economy of forces - avoid excessive 'destruction' fires by artillery against troops dug in in good cover. Force the enemy to react to you instead, and then fire the artillery in preference to neutralise his moving forces once they are out of their protection. At the same time, use your economy measures to give you the reserves of troops/ammunition/tanks that you need to win at the decisive point, before resuming economy once the momentum is spent, so the reserve can displace/rebuild/rest as required.

It also doesn't hurt to keep practising with the tutorial - can you secure St Vith before 48th Gr Rgt arrives? Hold all objectives against Peiper throughout the last 2+ days... can you force an early win by destroying the entire enemy force before 6am Day5? You have enough forces that these are all possible although the last does take a bit of luck as well as a good plan.

Now how well can you do with the 12 VGD also attacking from the East on day 1/2? (Favour Axis)... Actually I don't know - I suspect this is a real game changer, as you can no longer just focus on the route north... I really should do that one day [8D]

[tukker]

In addition to Lieste's excellent advice:

Hell on Wheels Counterattack as the Allies is a good scenario for beginners. Skorzeny's Bid for Glory as the Axis is probably a bit tougher, but is also a good one to start with.

Have fun!

Pieter

[Phoenix100]

We Fight and Die Here is a nice step up after Hofen. Hofen is a very balanced scenario that you can win as either allies or axis. We Fight and Die Here is, I think, more challenging as axis. Attack orders, by the way, take an awful long time for the AI to plan and don't always produce interesting results. Attacking by using a Move order with 'attacks' checked has been much more successful for many people. Taking control of some arty assets and using them to good effect can work at crucial junctures. The arty can stop things dead, very quickly (I haven't noticed any orders delay on arty at all). Also, paying attention to interdicting enemy reinforcements by blocking routes, sometimes with very small units, just enough to challenge the AI to think about it. You have to guess enemy routes in at the start of playing any particular scenario, but if you play any often enough, from both sides, then you quickly build up a mass of (gamey) intelligence about where to block enemy routes, or even where his artillery might be (though you can't see them), then you'll have to restrain yourself if you want to keep it real. The AI isn't that predictable, but the starting positions are scripted, so..... Have fun! It's a great game, I think.

[alcamatraz]

I asked this same question some time back... And found the ones mentioned above to be good.

To make things generally a bit easier (or a lot) turn down orders delay to none. This has a large effect, your orders are instantly followed, so you can change your mind with minimal penalty. Just make sure to turn this up after a few games, since the game is undoubtedly more fun with orders delays on.

Another way of helping yourself out if you are struggling, is to surrender, and then the battle ends... You can look at the final map and see the position of all enemy troops. Now reload and react. Again, don't do this except perhaps on one of two maps, since lots of the fun in the game comes from not knowing this information (but the game will only be fun if you can enjoy it at first and really get into it, so I think it's a good idea to cheat like this a little while you start out)

Finally, it's generally easier as the allies (partly due to some bugs I believe, regarding axis AT weapons)

All the other advice above is excellent, and I think I may go play the tutorial again (again)

Why not drop a message here after playing a few of the recommendations above, let people know how they went?

And good luck!

[Lieste]

Hmm, how gamey is building a terrain analysis and interdiction strategy for the current AO?
I do this (usually at a glance now, but I have taken time with photoshop/pen & paper before), when starting a new scenario.
I also think about where I'd deploy if I were defending with 'his' forces - not just where I'd like him to be, or what I can see, but also where his supply is coming from, where a good CCC hub would be, what covered areas need 'eyes-on' to deny them to enemy artillery/expose to CB fires.

I will also occasionally fire a very few 'harassing' missions on smaller terrain features I suspect as being part of his LOC network (villages, small wooded areas on roads, etc in his rear area). These use minimal quantities of ammunition (I fire the smallest type that will reach), and low ROF, but might have longer than normal durations if I think it really is occupied. The payoff of nailing a Supply unit, Artillery element or HQ is worth dribbling a few rounds... just keep a few back to allow neutralisation fires on seen targets, FPF or Assault support fires on the front lines... Don't waste the bigger artillery on this unless you can see the HVT or it has gone out of sight into the only local cover [8|]
Can also be useful to protect troops out of supply or disrupted on an enemy objective - dropping fires onto all the areas you'd use as FUP for the attack... well it could buy enough time to get supply in, and forces recovered/dug-in... Has to be somewhere that is worth holding though - mostly I'd just hang on and then hit his troops once they were committed and tired with a counter-attack.

You are looking for mobility corridors, network nodes, chokepoints, and also looking at how to isolate the local battle to prevent enemy reinforcements and supplies extending the immediate battle beyond the capability of your assault troops to keep going. Complete each action against a position quickly, and he is attacking to take it back, not reinforcing a defensive position...

Artillery has a small delay for called missions - try hitting motorised units on highways/out of contact... You need a lot of lead, or very long columns to get much success... OTOH the responsiveness of artillery is much higher than the delay caused by regrouping or rallying... and these make excellent intermittent targets - hitting these will cause lots of casualties, long delays and much confusion [:D]
Artillery does take a relatively long time to emplace - once it has finished moving it will not be available to bombard for anything up to several hours - most around 30-40 minutes, which is an age during the development of an engagement. This is also one of the side-effects of a forced displacement or retreat of his artillery when under threat.

[Phoenix100]

I would certainly say Lieste has hit the nail on the head with this game, with this line from the mail above;

'You are looking for mobility corridors, network nodes, chokepoints, and also looking at how to isolate the local battle to prevent enemy reinforcements and supplies extending the immediate battle beyond the capability of your assault troops to keep going. Complete each action against a position quickly, and he is attacking to take it back, not reinforcing a defensive position...'

That's the whole game, really - very succinctly put! Especially - once you've got a plan etc - the part about isolating the battle so you can win it and get the enemy on the defensive.

[simovitch]

Testing the new (soon to be released) patch I have to admit that I am using assaults more and more. The commands respond much smoother now without those occasional mysterious delays. Also fatigue recovery is greatly improved and the commander who pulls his troops out of the line for a few hours at night will be greatly rewarded with fresh(er) troops for that 4am 'raus!' from the Feldwebel.[:D]

Also i'm discovering that 'Withdraw' is a great way to get out of trouble when I find myself getting surounded. I think everyone will find that the game will be overall a bit more enjoyable, and the AI will be a bit more on it's toes.

[Ctaardvark]

Thanks guys, lots of ideas there. [:)]

I have been tending to use my arty to pound seven bells out of enemy units with varying levels of success. Perhaps a more thoughtful approach is required as Lieste says. How much arty fire is required to stop a column moving along a road? Does the AI stop moving at the first sign of shelling?

Interested in Phoenix's comments that Move (attack) is preferable to Attack orders. I assume this would solve my problem of units moving past enemy units on the way to objectives instead of clearing the way as they go (how I assumed it worked).

Off now to try Hofen Ho-Down. Expect more newbie questions imminently. [;)]

[Phoenix100]

Simovitch, 'Soon to be released'? Any update on that? Like when?

[Pawsy]

Also dont forget delay - very useful way to use a small force to tie down a larger one

[Phoenix100]

Ctaardvark,

There's a few nice AARs for Hofen. And all sorts about it in various threads, if you search. You might like to peruse, before you play. They help you imagine it as real too, i think - that someone has narrated the battle. I started out being unable to win Hofen as Axis, and easily able to win as allies, then played it through fast about thirty times, sadly (on fast speed, trying out various big ideas and just letting it run with them, to see what happened), then fine tuned it and played a few more times on slow speed, paying proper attention and intervention - and with many useful suggestions from Lieste, in particular (they're in the threads somewhere) - and ended up with decisive victories for axis. I was very pleased. Took some time though. I then had a shot at it head to head (with Sharper), playing axis, and found that was, in the end, much more diff. Lost it. Interesting. |

Let us know how you get on.

[simovitch]

ORIGINAL: phoenix

Simovitch, 'Soon to be released'? Any update on that? Like when?

when it's ready, of course.

[Ctaardvark]

Hmmm. I don't seem to be able to make any attack run on Hofen N or S without my infantry units getting routed before I've had chance to dunk my biscuit in my tea! I've tried Probe as well with the same result. I've also tried using individual units to act as scouts for my arty, but any arty bombardment seems to have little effect (although now I think about it all I was basing that on was the number in the unit box rather than checking the observed personnel figure). An experiment with using arty to block movement of enemy troops appeared to work, but if my infantry give up when someone looks at them aggressively how can I push home the advantage? Sorry if this all sounds a bit basic.

[Lieste]

Spread them out a little, but keep them heading towards the same general objective - by default the AI bunches up, and passes units through each other too often to be comfortable when the enemy has observation and plentiful artillery/MG/Tanks.

Keep your objectives manageable : taking the near side of the village (North or South (not both)) from two directions, and screening the reinforcements is much more likely than clearing the entire village in one assault. Once your assault troops are moving, get your supports (direct and Indirect fire) suppressing the defenders - this is still low % shooting, but it reduces the suppression/neutralisation/losses in your moving troops from direct fires. Units that are shattered aren't much use in the assault, once they have recovered, they might be better used as a part of your SBF element - they will still be useful in defending the objective after the successful attack, so don't get them destroyed. Your heavy artillery (once the ammunition is replenished) is best used working over his reinforcing elements (especially those moving in Hofen - they are temporarily out of their fox-holes and you can do more with one strike now, than a dozen against unseen/dug-in units). Other priority targets are the FUP for any infantry counter-attacks on your current objectives, suppressing enemy armour if your AT is still undeployed/out of position. If you see his artillery, or better his supply, pound it hard, let it recover (to save ammunition) and then repeat - it should spend most of the scenario thereafter ineffective if you can keep that up.

As the first assault can't go in under cover of darkness, use terrain shape to minimise time in sight, and wait for the first of your heavy artillery to get supply before thinking about serious attacking. Movements to the FUP can be done immediately, so long as you have them out of sight. You can deploy some of the shorter ranged/mobile artillery forward while waiting for supply too - NW in particular benefit from minimum range shoots, but be careful of their formation sizes and keeping in cover. A diversionary movement in the north can get his artillery busy, giving you a few moments to get closer in the south.

Treat your assaulters well. Ensure they are close, covered and safe when forming up. Let the first wave go to ground on the front of the village, and carry the attack forwards with second echelon troops. If the attack is in danger of stalling/failing then defend in place and commit reserves to carry it forwards. The reserves should pass around rather than through the first wave, unless his artillery is busy/weak/neutralised - bunching up guarantees an inopportune strike. Don't give up the ground if you can avoid it - re-attacking won't be any easier, and don't keep attacking without the resources supporting the effort. Make sure they get plenty of rest, ammunition and support when they need it/when they can, but use a portion of the force to keep his troops busy, and prevent their doing the same. One fresh company hitting the middle of a day-long battle for Hofen will usually tip the balance - the trick is getting the battle raging, keeping it small*, and then getting enough of the reserves in in one piece to change the fight. *If you let the tank Bn into Hofen in strength, then you may not have the forces to drive them back out again... especially if the infantry defenders are still largely intact. OTOH, if you are defending part of Hofen, then he has to move/attack to drive you back out, and you can really work the artillery units. Artillery can also be concentrated to neutralise a defensive position just before the assault troops get to effective (SMG/RPG) ranges - the combination of intense artillery falling & a close assault within a few minutes will often dislodge even the most stubborn defenders... the same artillery strikes not followed up by an assault may 'only' cause a few casualties and some fatigue. If the defender is isolated when handled this roughly he may surrender soon after the initial assault reaches him - if he can retreat into safety, or survive until relieved then you will have to fight them again - another argument for making the battle as small as possible.

[Lieste]

Oh, and a comment on counter battery:

Primary task is to detect his firing batteries. Keep track of them once detected - often they go out of sight when deploying in covered terrain, but you can identify the current location by knowing where it went out of sight, and having exits observed.

A primary threat are his Howitzer Bn(s), but don't underestimate the mortars - treat them the same - locate and track them.

The actual counter battery firing is tricky - the goal is to neutralise enough of his batteries before they can inflict too much damage to a defense's integrity, or to cause too many casualties to an attacking force. As a rule, don't fire as soon as you see his artillery - your rounds won't arrive early enough to do much to protect a unit caught moving, and except when your troops are under assault, fire on dug-in units is usually not too painful.

The fires are most useful:
during the late stages of a reorg prior to assaulting - any artillery hit hard now will probably not be ready to fire effectively until after the attack is done.
at the start of one of his assaults if you also have sufficient artillery to suppress his moving troops - reducing the quantity of fire on your defenders maximises their staying power and firepower with direct fire weapons.
in the early and late stages of his redeployments, when his artillery is out of cover, moving - here you have a much greater killing potential, and if you want to permanently reduce his artillery this is a good time for heavy commitment of whatever artillery has ammunition. If he displaces, allow him some time to start recovery, but not enough to become effective, and re-apply [:D]

The principle of minimum ranged artillery firing first, longest range/heaviest last against any valid group of targets (with preference for shortest ranged shots for each firing weapon - though sometimes lower effectiveness is worth it for getting an other wise under-used battery in against the target nearest to someone with alternatives...).

When firing to destroy (rare) all units fire if they can bear. Usually a single battalion is sufficient for neutralisation, but doubling up can be useful if instant neutralisation is required. Don't be hesitant to cancel/displace calls for fire if the target is uncooperative, or is no longer a priority.

[Phoenix100]

I got my decisive victories in Hofen by resting all my units south of the river until darkness. They're already pretty fatigued at the start of the scenario, so I just let them sit there, out of sight, then attack at night. there's still arty that comes down but not as much and they took Hofen sth by morning no probs. I sent both groups to Hofen sth, but to concentrate them on hofen nth does just as well. Lieste had a nice idea to block the road out of monschau (where enemy reenforcements come from to assist at Hofen) if you do this. Just use a spare unit from division (assuming you're commanding at Battallion level) Best to concentrate your 2 divisions south of the river on one objectve though, I think. The only group i moved was the units north of the river, who i sent up to the far nth on low aggression, and into the woods behind Muntzenich. Rest them there until they can attack Muntz from the back, preferably before daylight. Whilst I was experimenting with these rest until nightfall options I was cautioned - in this forum - that I might not be able to hold the objectives for long enough to win if i didn't attack immediately. This isn't thhe case - like I said, i waited until night and got decisive victories. I had denied the enemy poession of all four of his objectives (he doesn't have the little crossroads - i forget its name - down to the far left as an objective) by darkness day 2, but I didn't actually kick him out until half way through Day 3 morning - so very late - but still a decisive victory. try it.

[Phoenix100]

Should add - I only used 'Move' orders, with 'attack' checked to go for the objectives. No assaults or probes. if you use probe they'll back off anyway first sign of danger. I also unchecked stragglers, which i think means they didn't wait around in the open for stragglers.

[Lieste]

I thought unchecking stragglers forced the unit to move as one? rather than allowing some units to catch up if retreated/halted, the entire force halts. <unsure>

[Phoenix100]

Sorry. Other way round - ie NOT the default, whichever it is (checked or not, i don't recall) - whichever is the default keeps them together, I believe. So maybe I check it...will have to read the manual again. Anyways, whichever it is, they move quicker through open spaces if not waiting for stragglers, so seem less likely to get hit by arty, but you can end up with one unit right out front and atacking the position, and then this unit quite often isn't successful and ends up retreating quickly. So maybe it's six and two threes.