Witp AE: amphibious preparedness

[Crackaces]

I really need help from the more experinced members of this forum.

A grand opportunity has unfolded as I have discovered the entire KB off the Coast of Columbo. I have 2 USA Divisions -- over 700 AV prepared level 20, experince level 55 to hit Tarawa esitmated AV 160 plus the forts. I was planning for a May 15th strike [70 days from now] , but the intellgence of the KB exhausting themsevles to sink merchants has made me think of striking Tarawa now ..[Tarawa is a part of my grand strategy]

So given those parameters what is the minimum prep level to ensure enough of these 2 divisions get off the reefs and make a shock attack? I would construct the amphib to have only 400 troops points per ship to ensure maximum offload phase 1 and not have them offlaoding beyond the next phase. I can support the amphib operation with 7 BB's and an air strike of 30 dive bombers ... if that sways things, but being a newbie I fear without enough prep the entire operation will die in the surf during the pre-amphib mode [&:] So what is that level if anybody knows?

Thoughts?

[Mike Solli]

Tarawa is an atoll. Two divisions are far too much manpower. You shouldn't use more than a brigade. Remember, 6000 troops max with no penalty. I wouldn't go over ~6500 or so and then reduce it to 6000 after you take it.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Tarawa is an atoll. Two divisions are far too much manpower. You shouldn't use more than a brigade. Remember, 6000 troops max with no penalty. I wouldn't go over ~6500 or so and then reduce it to 6000 after you take it.

Rah Roh! I was using WitpTracker to estimate .. it says 30K max [&:] Any thoughts on preperation?

[Mike Solli]

Preparation: The higher the better. Also, if you have the attacking unit's HQ also prepping and in range of the target, that'll give you an additional bonus in ground combat. Don't forget to prep the target. Naval and air bombardment will disrupt the defenders thus pushing the odds further in your favor.

I don't have any hard and fast rule for preparation. With low preparation, your units will accumulate more disruption when they land. Little or no preparation will net you huge disruption dooming the attack to failure.

As the Allied player, you're blessed with time on your side. The Japanese player has to make most if not all of his major invasions not later than March, 42. After that, his invasion bonus is gone and his invasions are much more difficult. You, on the other hand, can invade at your convenience. If you plan properly, there is no reason you can't have your invading units 100% prepped. It's not as easy as it sounds though. That requires a lot of preplanning and allocating ground forces to invasions that may be 3-4 months down the road.

[Mike Solli]

That's interesting. The manual says Tarawa is an atoll.

[Crackaces]

That's interesting. The manual says Tarawa is an atoll.

I think there is 5 levels of Atoll?

[Mike Solli]

Figured it out.

Atoll: Invading forces automatically shock attack when they land.
Island size: Max number of forces. In this case small, meaning 30k troops max. Two divisions should be good.

[khyberbill]

I would use APA's or lots and lots of APs so that the troops all unload on the first turn.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Figured it out.

Atoll: Invading forces automatically shock attack when they land.
Island size: Max number of forces. In this case small, meaning 30k troops max. Two divisions should be good.

Ya .. I am estimating right now 50% disruption given level 40 prep when those divisions hit the beach. That still leaves the 2:1 for the shock attack. Morale will suffer but the Admin for both commands is 72/71 ...and inspiration of 68/60 .. If that assumption is wrong I am in big trouble .. that is the big question in my mind ..

I also am thinking that 4.8K of troops after the first rounds of combat will be around 4K maybe 3.7k given my experience with bombardment then the shock attacks happen. I trade 4K of troops + disruption for his 4K of troops.

I see 2 divisions disrupted/depleted for 4 - 6 months, Tarawa a US protectorate .. one less airbase to attack shipping one base in the Gilberts to operate from, and most of all a note to my enemy that I will strike quickly if given the opportunity ...

[wpurdom]

If you don't have a good idea of the garrison size do some good recon, including bombardments, right before landing, so you can adjust down the size of the forces initially landing and getting heavily disrupted, if appropriate.

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

That's interesting. The manual says Tarawa is an atoll.

I think there is 5 levels of Atoll?

Stacking limits are only based on island size, not terrain. Whether it is an atoll or not isn't relevant.

Island sizes, and consequent garrison limits, are listed in the manual. Also, check for whether the island names, if they are on the map, are white or "sand" coloured.

Actually, whether invading units have to shock attack should only be based on island size as well, but there is still a hangover in the code that checks for atoll terrain (there were no island sizes in the original WitP, so checking for atoll terrain was a proxy for that). This additional check has never been removed (although I have pointed it out a few times).

Andrew

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: wpurdom

If you don't have a good idea of the garrison size do some good recon, including bombardments, right before landing, so you can adjust down the size of the forces initially landing and getting heavily disrupted, if appropriate.

Great minds think alike! [;)] I have done this to determine 4.8K troops. Alfred broke this down to 160 AV. The really interesting part of this thread is no feedback on disruption % given 40 prep ... but I might be the first one to post about it in about 7 - 10 days from now [;)] One thing I combined my regiments into 2 divisioni .. but I can decide not to land the 25th division if the 24th can do this without help .. . I just wonder what kind of disruption on landing ...[&:]

What will be funny will be two forces completely in chaos from disruption sitting on a small atoll ...

[ckammp]

You do realize that your opponent can read this thread, don't you?
Or are you playing vs. AI?

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: ckammp

You do realize that your opponent can read this thread, don't you?
Or are you playing vs. AI?

No AI ... but my opponent does not know my moniker nor does he read this forum .. you guys ran him out a couple of years ago [;)] ...But a very honorable man in all senses of the word. I feel very comfortable openly discussing my strategy. With the execption of how I exactly knew where his KB is this turn .. and my overall Grand Strategy ...[;)]

[Nemo121]

Dive-bombers are the best planes for actually pounding dug-in defenders Task them accordingly and keep your TBs for anti-naval use.

I used 700 Dive-bombers in the Phillipines to utterly destroy ( as in wiped out and removed from the map ) some 500 AV of IJA troops over the course of 1 week of gameplay. I did this without a single ground attack. Of course this was 1945 and my DB pilots had high experience levels etc etc.

Still, the bottom line is that DBs are excellent for destruction of ground troops. As others say, unload everything in one turn and maximise your AV vs stacking limit ratio by using as many armoured or combat engineer units as possible ( they generate more AV per thousand soldiers than infantry divisions in general ) and suppress everything as much as possible the day before and the day of the invasion.

Multi-month softenings up aren't necessary if your short-term prep is vicious enough.

[wpurdom]

The really interesting part of this thread is no feedback on disruption % given 40 prep ... but I might be the first one to post about it in about 7 - 10 days from now One thing I combined my regiments into 2 divisioni .. but I can decide not to land the 25th division if the 24th can do this without help .. . I just wonder what kind of disruption on landing ...

What will be funny will be two forces completely in chaos from disruption sitting on a small atoll ...

I assume Nemo knows this at least roughly since I would think that his invasion of the Marshalls in the Sumatran defense game and some others on threads I didn't follow so closely had incomplete prep, and I think some other players have pulled off snap invasions - I think Canoerebel has. Personally, I have only done this against targets that were virtually undefended (less than 60 AV) and haven't made detailed observations as a result.

[Crackaces]

Excellent Nemo .. I have available right now within range 130 DB's all at least 70 in Ground Attack this is very encouraging .. and you are the professor of the unprepared amphib landing [:D] I am just uneasy about 40% prep and how many troops will die in the surf and reefs in the pre-invasion phase [&:]...

wpurdom: With teh DB's and Bombardment . maybe I can make Tarawa "viturally undefended" [:D]

[Alfred]

Crackaces,

Loose lips sink ships, so I have answered in your AAR.[:)] See post #96.

Alfred