The Power of Inexperience / GreyJoy(A)-Rader(J)

[Cribtop]

GreyJoy,

Please also remember that CR is advising you about a long term strategic option, not something you would try 3 or even 6 months from now. This would be a kitchen sink option and would require a massive build up and reinforcement of your current forces. For example, you'd need lots of Essex CVs, lots of CVEs, hordes of supply points, engineers, combat troops, and some plan for getting LBA into the target.

[Canoerebel]

Yeah, this is a strategy that might be looking at late 1944.  There may be many good reasons you don't want or need to opt for that strategy - you may be making satisfactory progress in a more methodical way in the meantime, for instance.  But just keep this in the back of your mind.  There may be circumstances under which this strategy becomes more desirable.
 
Thanks for the clarification, Cribtop.

[Mistmatz]

What's the AF size for Russel Isl.? These bombardment runs seem to be very effective in terms of damaged planes, which would indicate serious overstacking.

The question is can you keep them up, maybe with bomber raids to nail those frames?

[GreyJoy]

Thanks CR, Crib and Mismatz!

Cannot answer right now to your questions and suggestions cause another turn is flowing in....will reply later

Here are some updates:

May 29,30, 31 - June 1 1943

The KB is moving towards Truk again...confirmed.

In india, on the 31st of May we tried to give a good surprise to Rader. 75 prototypes of P-47s were dispacted at Hyderabad, along with 50 Hurri MkIIc, 25 P-40Ks, 12 Kittihawks and 25 P-38Gs. These guys sprung up right during the usual daily raid of the 1st of June...slaughtering the zeros and the Sallies that were due to bomb our Easter Army...
The 350 usual Helens bombing at Karachi went unopposed...but now Rader knows he has some decent enemies over the Skies of India again!
The race to get the air superiority is up again!!!!

At Lunga a series of Georges Sweep missions were countered by a number of Hellcats and P-38s....causing extensive destructions among enemy squadrons...



AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR May 31, 43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Lunga , at 114,138

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 31 NM, estimated altitude 32,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 38



Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 1
F6F-3 Hellcat x 20


Japanese aircraft losses
N1K1-J George: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38G Lightning: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Lunga , at 114,138

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 185 NM, estimated altitude 36,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 55 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 4



Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 16


Japanese aircraft losses
N1K1-J George: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jun 01, 43

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Lunga , at 114,138

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 31 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 19



Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 1
F6F-3 Hellcat x 13


Japanese aircraft losses
N1K1-J George: 2 destroyed

No Allied losses


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Karachi , at 40,8

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 22,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 50 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 72
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 350



Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 46 damaged


Allied ground losses:
4 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Airbase hits 6
Runway hits 43
Port hits 1


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Lunga , at 114,138

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 193 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 57 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 3



Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 1
F6F-3 Hellcat x 12


Japanese aircraft losses
N1K1-J George: 1 destroyed

No Allied losses



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 19th Indian Division, at 42,10 (Hyderabad (Sindh))

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 143 NM, estimated altitude 30,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 41 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 44
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 25



Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIc Trop x 12
Kittyhawk III x 4
P-38G Lightning x 2
P-40K Warhawk x 9
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 23


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 7 destroyed
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 14 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIc Trop: 1 destroyed

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Yeah, this is a strategy that might be looking at late 1944.  There may be many good reasons you don't want or need to opt for that strategy - you may be making satisfactory progress in a more methodical way in the meantime, for instance.  But just keep this in the back of your mind.  There may be circumstances under which this strategy becomes more desirable.

Thanks for the clarification, Cribtop.

The whole strategy sounds fine to me CR, but first i still don't know if i'm capable of doing a large amphib assault and second i do know for certain that Rader, since 1942, has extensively built up all his "soft core" areas. Iwo and the Bonins, The Kuriles, Southern DEI, Mindanao....all these areas are built at max and intel says that a number of big units are stationing here...consider that Rader can extract at least 1 division each month from China...i bet he has fortified almost everything....however i'll keep on looking for solutions and new "ouvertures"

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

What's the AF size for Russel Isl.? These bombardment runs seem to be very effective in terms of damaged planes, which would indicate serious overstacking.

The question is can you keep them up, maybe with bomber raids to nail those frames?

It's a 5 Level AF...meaning he can put 250 fighters there...no, he's not overstacking...he has so many bases in the Solomons that he doesn't really need to overstack and, however, i haven't bomb the bases for 4 days now...useless as long as he has moved back all his fighter and bomber units...and now that the KB is at Truk again i gotta be double-carefull again....

[GreyJoy]

.

[Andy Mac]

Look at how high he is having to bomb Karachi - I guess thats the impact of massed flak

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Look at how high he is having to bomb Karachi - I guess thats the impact of massed flak

Yes, i have 277 Flak guns at Karachi and 250 at Hyderabad...however even at those heights 350 bombers can ruin your day anyway....

[GreyJoy]

Ok, so we have the KB coming down again to the Solomons in support of the "defensive" japanese operation there. The fact that he aborted the "raiding" on the west coast is a very good thing. Fuel burnt for nothing and at least a week of delay for the japs.

while in the Solomons we somehow managed to achieve the air-parity over TLT (with all those Hellcats and Corsairs i feel pretty safe against anything he can send against me), in India we now have to see if those 75 P-47s are able to do what those 72 SpitsVIII managed to do in August 42... the good thing is that now we have another front open which is sucking up a LOT of japanese air assets so he should not be able to deploy against me the 2000 fighters he did in autumn 42...And more air squadrons are flowing to Aden. 36 Hellcats will be "air to breathe" for the Indian air command, considering how poor the replacement pools are. But we're already in June, and in 30 days we'll start having 55 P-47s and more P-40Ns to count upon...things look better than one year ago!

[crsutton]

We use our fighters different and our altitude caps are different (29,000 feet) so that might have an effect on how we see out fighters. But I would have to rate them in this order from best to worst. P47, Corsair, Hellcat, P38, Spit VII, Spit V, P40, Hurricane II, and the lowly P39. But, the P47 is by far the king. Of the next four they are vitrually all the same. One is as good as the other except range is a factor in how I use them.

I almost never use fighter sweeps. With scen #2 and the obscene number of Japanese fighters a poorly coordinated sweep can end up a disaster and I cannot afford to waste planes and pilots. And, I really do not use fighters on normal escort. They just seem to die vs a good CAP. However, what works really well for me is to place fighters on Long Range CAP over the base that my bombers attack. They do much better in dogfights and are there for most all of the multiple bomber attack.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

We use our fighters different and our altitude caps are different (29,000 feet) so that might have an effect on how we see out fighters. But I would have to rate them in this order from best to worst. P47, Corsair, Hellcat, P38, Spit VII, Spit V, P40, Hurricane II, and the lowly P39. But, the P47 is by far the king. Of the next four they are vitrually all the same. One is as good as the other except range is a factor in how I use them.

I almost never use fighter sweeps. With scen #2 and the obscene number of Japanese fighters a poorly coordinated sweep can end up a disaster and I cannot afford to waste planes and pilots. And, I really do not use fighters on normal escort. They just seem to die vs a good CAP. However, what works really well for me is to place fighters on Long Range CAP over the base that my bombers attack. They do much better in dogfights and are there for most all of the multiple bomber attack.

Thx CrSutton! Very interesting!
Why 29k ft? What rapresents this number?

Very strange you put the spitVIII behind the corsair and the Hellcat!! in my limited experience they rule the skies with no opposition and once they are flown by experienced pilots, become,more or less, unvulnerable!

Agree with sweeps and escort..... even the best pilots exterminate themselfs once sent to sweep a base or to escort.
Interesting the LRCAP thing! Will try that!!

[GreyJoy]

Jun 2, 3 1943

The appereance of the P-47s in India has temporarly stopped the air attacks. He's now re-organizing and massing again his assets in order to bring the "hammer" again up to Karachi and my newly recreated Indian Air Army. We foresee massive sweeps of hundreds of fighters...will be bloody. Again.
The battle of India - phase 2

Nothing much else to report...a quiet and sleepy turn...

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: crsutton

We use our fighters different and our altitude caps are different (29,000 feet) so that might have an effect on how we see out fighters. But I would have to rate them in this order from best to worst. P47, Corsair, Hellcat, P38, Spit VII, Spit V, P40, Hurricane II, and the lowly P39. But, the P47 is by far the king. Of the next four they are vitrually all the same. One is as good as the other except range is a factor in how I use them.

I almost never use fighter sweeps. With scen #2 and the obscene number of Japanese fighters a poorly coordinated sweep can end up a disaster and I cannot afford to waste planes and pilots. And, I really do not use fighters on normal escort. They just seem to die vs a good CAP. However, what works really well for me is to place fighters on Long Range CAP over the base that my bombers attack. They do much better in dogfights and are there for most all of the multiple bomber attack.

Thx CrSutton! Very interesting!
Why 29k ft? What rapresents this number?

Very strange you put the spitVIII behind the corsair and the Hellcat!! in my limited experience they rule the skies with no opposition and once they are flown by experienced pilots, become,more or less, unvulnerable!

Agree with sweeps and escort..... even the best pilots exterminate themselfs once sent to sweep a base or to escort.
Interesting the LRCAP thing! Will try that!!

29k was the max altitude of the P40 so that was the most sensible choice. Viperpol was good enough to agree to it as his Tojos were eating me up.

As for the Spit VIII it really is as good as any other (except) the P47. Remember, you got it at a time when it outclassed any Japanese fighter in the sky and were able to build up some great pilots. You will start to see a lot of George fighters and at the end of 1943 the Frank fighter. Both are good vs the spit. In the normal game with PDU on for Japan the Spit VIII does not appear until about the same time as the Frank for Japan which might explain our different experiences. I do like the spit. The biggest handicap to the Brits is the 16 plane squadrons. The Austrailian squadrons expand to 24 in 1/44 and they are pretty good. Also, I really am referring to the second generation Corsair which has a service rating of 2 and excellent long range with the addition of drop tanks. It really is my most useful fighters because you get 75 per month vs. 50 P47s of which there are never enough.

Until the Frank arrives, the Hellcat is a great fighter and because you get so many you will use it everywhere. The Frank will beat it but it is still useful.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: crsutton

We use our fighters different and our altitude caps are different (29,000 feet) so that might have an effect on how we see out fighters. But I would have to rate them in this order from best to worst. P47, Corsair, Hellcat, P38, Spit VII, Spit V, P40, Hurricane II, and the lowly P39. But, the P47 is by far the king. Of the next four they are vitrually all the same. One is as good as the other except range is a factor in how I use them.

I almost never use fighter sweeps. With scen #2 and the obscene number of Japanese fighters a poorly coordinated sweep can end up a disaster and I cannot afford to waste planes and pilots. And, I really do not use fighters on normal escort. They just seem to die vs a good CAP. However, what works really well for me is to place fighters on Long Range CAP over the base that my bombers attack. They do much better in dogfights and are there for most all of the multiple bomber attack.

Thx CrSutton! Very interesting!
Why 29k ft? What rapresents this number?

Very strange you put the spitVIII behind the corsair and the Hellcat!! in my limited experience they rule the skies with no opposition and once they are flown by experienced pilots, become,more or less, unvulnerable!

Agree with sweeps and escort..... even the best pilots exterminate themselfs once sent to sweep a base or to escort.
Interesting the LRCAP thing! Will try that!!

29k was the max altitude of the P40 so that was the most sensible choice. Viperpol was good enough to agree to it as his Tojos were eating me up.

As for the Spit VIII it really is as good as any other (except) the P47. Remember, you got it at a time when it outclassed any Japanese fighter in the sky and were able to build up some great pilots. You will start to see a lot of George fighters and at the end of 1943 the Frank fighter. Both are good vs the spit. In the normal game with PDU on for Japan the Spit VIII does not appear until about the same time as the Frank for Japan which might explain our different experiences. I do like the spit. The biggest handicap to the Brits is the 16 plane squadrons. The Austrailian squadrons expand to 24 in 1/44 and they are pretty good. Also, I really am referring to the second generation Corsair which has a service rating of 2 and excellent long range with the addition of drop tanks. It really is my most useful fighters because you get 75 per month vs. 50 P47s of which there are never enough.

Until the Frank arrives, the Hellcat is a great fighter and because you get so many you will use it everywhere. The Frank will beat it but it is still useful.

I see mate. For sure my experience was "particular". When the spitVIII arrived in mid 42 it really changed the course of the aerial warfare in India. Now my hope is that a good number of P-47s can, playing defensively, do the same in mid 43.
The 1st battle of India gave me so many great pilots (both American and Brits) that i can easily fill up to 10 fighter squadrons with pilots with more than 70 exp and 70 air2air Skill... hopefully this will make some difference even when facing the franks. Against the georges i'm not having much problems in Sopac using Corsairs and Hellcats. Even the P-40K can tangle, if piloted by elite crews, with the georges at 20k.

However i think very soon we'll see what the second generation fighters will be able to do against the japanese Hordes

[GreyJoy]

I hope i calculated the right time to move in back again my fighter squadrons in India. Basically i have to resist for one month. After that date the number of fighters in production will be more than 100 units higher than now (P-40Ns, new P-39s and P-47s) and with the arrival of 2 USMC squadrons, i should be able to hold the line. So the question is: will 190 (75 P-47s, 25 P-38Gs, 25 P-40K, 48 Hurri MkIIc, 12 Kittihawk, 12 HurriMK XII and 9 SpitVIII) fighters be enough to reach July?
 
If i can hold the line and keep my skies -more or less-safe, that means i'll be able to bring in more forces and supplies and finally start to build up again a 4E force in India (i'm planning to have 100 4Es by the end of July here). With the 4Es and with a fighter force able to keep Karachi and Hyderabad safe, i can start thinking about a serious counteroffensive.
 
 

[Canoerebel]

Yes, they will be enough.  It seems like rader is backing off a bit in the Solomons, and isn't pressing forward in India.  You may have finally broken his will to commit low-quality pilots against ace Allied pilots.  If so, you may have to probe to find some pressure points that persuade him (or force him) to commit assets (ships and aircraft) he'd rather not commit.  As crsutton previously noted, the Solomons give you a great place to do just that.  You should be able to orchestrate a slow, methodical, but irresistable advance under cover of massed LBA all the way to Rabaul.  Since he's already fought so hard there, and with so many IJA divisions isolated, he won't like it one bit.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Yes, they will be enough.  It seems like rader is backing off a bit in the Solomons, and isn't pressing forward in India.  You may have finally broken his will to commit low-quality pilots against ace Allied pilots.  If so, you may have to probe to find some pressure points that persuade him (or force him) to commit assets (ships and aircraft) he'd rather not commit.  As crsutton previously noted, the Solomons give you a great place to do just that.  You should be able to orchestrate a slow, methodical, but irresistable advance under cover of massed LBA all the way to Rabaul.  Since he's already fought so hard there, and with so many IJA divisions isolated, he won't like it one bit.

If you want me to say the truth i wanna grind him down, slowly but steady, in at least 3 places at once.
India may become a meatgrinder for his Airforce if and when i'll find a solution to hiss mass AA concentration at Multan and Jodpur.
The Solomons will be a perfect place to start jumping towards Rabaul. He has so many units there that if i'm able to bypass them it will be a pow camp for more than a million of japanese!!!
The third place should be the souther DEI or the Kuriles...still building and prepping there.... we have time.

[Canoerebel]

If you can grab just one airfield on the India coast, you would be in a position to create havoc.  For instance, if you could somehow take Surat or Goa or Cochin and either land or airlift a bunch of parachute units there, you could then transfer in some transport aircraft and, the next turn, begin a very quick campaign of seizing bases across the interior.  This would threaten rader's LOC.  Of course, he might be wise to this, so he might have garrisons at every base.  Still, it's worth thinking about.  Heck, it doesn't even have to begin on the India coast.  You could try it from North Male Island or Addu Atoll (as long as each has an airfield of adequate size - you might need a level two to support paradrop missions).
 
I'm not advocating any of the strategies I'm mentioning.   Rather, it's just one way of showing that the mind of the Allied player should be mulling over all kinds of possibilities ranging from a slow and safe methodical advance to tricksy and clever moves that entail manageable risk and high rewards.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

If you can grab just one airfield on the India coast, you would be in a position to create havoc.  For instance, if you could somehow take Surat or Goa or Cochin and either land or airlift a bunch of parachute units there, you could then transfer in some transport aircraft and, the next turn, begin a very quick campaign of seizing bases across the interior.  This would threaten rader's LOC.  Of course, he might be wise to this, so he might have garrisons at every base.  Still, it's worth thinking about.  Heck, it doesn't even have to begin on the India coast.  You could try it from North Male Island or Addu Atoll (as long as each has an airfield of adequate size - you might need a level two to support paradrop missions).

I'm not advocating any of the strategies I'm mentioning.   Rather, it's just one way of showing that the mind of the Allied player should be mulling over all kinds of possibilities ranging from a slow and safe methodical advance to tricksy and clever moves that entail manageable risk and high rewards.

I'm watching the basis on the west coast of India since day 1 of the campaign. Rader ain't no fool unfortunately. Surat has 10,000 men and among them a guard regiment behind lvl 9 forts...and same for all the other coastal bases...a "coup de main" is out of question. Either a march inland or a massive landing supported by CVs....no other options i'm afraid