Another classic to be replaced with a FP cover shooter...

[Perturabo]

Do you, guys remember Syndicate? That game where you fly in a blimp and command a group of puppet cyborgs from above?
A game where you could brainwash whole town or slaughter everyone with miniguns and no one would care? A game that had a sequel where you could also blow up buildings and stuff?

So, now they are making a "reimagining" of it. As another generic cover shooter with an agent protagonist.

I can't wait for someone to dig up the Steel Panthers license and making a cover shooter out of it. It's obvious that if Gary Grigsby would have 3D technology, he'd make Steel Panthers as a cover shooter, right?

[Terminus]

Hey, newsflash to all the complainers: software developers don't owe you a damn thing. It's business.

Quit whining and don't buy it.[8|]

[Perturabo]

Are the usual lies about how everything that isn't a FPS shooter is outdated and existed only because of technological limitations - all that black propaganda against the genres which we like/love, conditioning kids into believing that any other form of gaming than FPS shooters is invalid...
Is it just business too?

[ilovestrategy]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Hey, newsflash to all the complainers: software developers don't owe you a damn thing. It's business.

Quit whining and don't buy it.[8|]

I have to agree with Terminus on this one.

[ilovestrategy]

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

Are the usual lies about how everything that isn't a FPS shooter is outdated and existed only because of technological limitations - all that black propaganda against the genres which we like/love, conditioning kids into believing that any other form of gaming than FPS shooters is invalid...
Is it just business too?

[&:]

[Perturabo]

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

Are the usual lies about how everything that isn't a FPS shooter is outdated and existed only because of technological limitations - all that black propaganda against the genres which we like/love, conditioning kids into believing that any other form of gaming than FPS shooters is invalid...
Is it just business too?

[&:]

Haven't you heard? Gaming is all about immersion. FPS is ultimate immersion, especially cover shooters with hitscan weapons and health regen. The only reason why people were making wargames and turn-based isometric cRPGs, etc. in the long gone past was because they didn't have technology to make cinematic cover shooters.
That ideology was aggressively promoted by the Bethesda duo Pete Hines and Todd Howard together with factoids like that Fallout had 4 pixel chairs and no graphical detail (except for the cover shooter part. The cover and health regen became mandatory later).

I hear this ideology from a lot of younger players when a new "re-imagining" appears. The homogenization of genres went beyond the question of experience and tastes but into the realm of ideology. While we as kids could approach to many different genres with open mind, including stuff that is acquired tastes, they get indoctrinated into the idea that there's one valid presentation - cinematic, preferably FPP with cover and health regeneration and that the others are bad and outdated and existed only because of technological limitations, not because of their inherent values.

Oh. And no one develops turn-based strategy games nowadays because no one would buy them. I guess we should find ourselves another forum because Matrix Games apparently doesn't exist[8|].

[gunny]

I know exactly where you are coming from Perturabo. Its not that we expect software companies to do anything for us specifically. But games like Syndicate, Fall-out, Jagged Alliance, UFO etc etc were classics and when you first hear a modern version is being released one has hope that the quality of entertainment, and the original concept with modern processing power is about to bring forth months of renewed entertainment that we experienced when the original title came out....with little hype but big pay-off I might add. Only to find out the game shares the original name only, but the original play concept is completely 100% ignored for a different modality altogether. Something is wrong somewhere. What's next, Close Combat FPS? I'm sure there is money to be made selling that license.

[fvianello]

THe first game I remember as incredibly immersive and addictive was Sword of Aragon.....no first person shooting there, but the basic concepts were revolutionary back then.

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: Perturabo
I can't wait for someone to dig up the Steel Panthers license and making a cover shooter out of it.
It's obvious that if Gary Grigsby would have 3D technology, he'd make Steel Panthers as a cover shooter, right?

I'd buy that game [;)]

Seriously : PFS are popular because they provide plenty of action, great visuals, complete immersion and a low skill level required to be relatively good at them.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[Perturabo]

ORIGINAL: gunny

I know exactly where you are coming from Perturabo. Its not that we expect software companies to do anything for us specifically. But games like Syndicate, Fall-out, Jagged Alliance, UFO etc etc were classics and when you first hear a modern version is being released one has hope that the quality of entertainment, and the original concept with modern processing power is about to bring forth months of renewed entertainment that we experienced when the original title came out....with little hype but big pay-off I might add. Only to find out the game shares the original name only, but the original play concept is completely 100% ignored for a different modality altogether. Something is wrong somewhere.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy - basically, the marketing guys promoting these cover shooters with regenerating health are creating an atmosphere where anything that isn't a cover shooter with regenerating health is wrong and outdated and since marketing works, many people have that idea implanted in them which leads to less chances for other games ever being made by any company having comparable resources to these of the end of 90s.
Nowadays it's no chance of game like Fallout being made. There's Age of Decadence in making but they don't have access to these sort of resources:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc6gvAzuipU

Then, even simplified decline genres like RTS are declining even more and getting even more simplified.
It's basically because most of these AAA games nowadays are targeted at the lowest common denominator and what the lowest common denominator wants is to spend some time before the screen playing a Call of Duty clone corridor shooter with a cinematic story and to shoot each other in multi-player without much thinking.

Though, I have to say I was quite surprised about them turning Syndicate into a FPS. After all, they still have released Command & Conquer games as RTS, not FPS.
Syndicate was basically a game about 4 terminator guys walking around and shooting everything that moves. That was the basic appeal of the game. Nothing too sophisticated, just pure mayhem. If new Command & Conquer sold millions as a RTS, then why not Syndicate as a action game with a similar view?

Ironically, Sean Cooper who apparently played a role of a lead designer in Syndicate went "indie" and started doing stuff like this:
http://www.games.seantcooper.com/
O_o

That said, we, wargamers are very lucky to still have veterans of the industry in our genre. AFAIK most of the veterans in cRPG genre moved on to make MMORPGs and casual games.

About something being wrong here...
The big business thinking permeates the gaming culture. For example gaming journalists and gamers using words like "franchise". It's a business term without relevance to gamers.
It's like saying: I love the Pizza Hut franchise or I'm going to a Pizza Hut franchise instead of I love the taste of their pizza or, I'm going to Pizza Hut restaurant.
It's pathological.

Then there are is the whole psychology thing behind marketing with old titles being picked up just for brand recognition. Sometimes I hate humanity for irrational stuff like that.
I was in two years advertisement technical school and to be honest, lessons in marketing and psychology were quite scary.
The basic idea is that the potential customer is an object that is manipulated using various psychological techniques and that no one is fully resistant to these techniques.

Then there's the whole black marketing stuff. Basically, defaming whole products and whole groups of people to sell another product.
For example manufacturers of shaving implements sponsor articles in men's/women's magazines that would write about how having body hair/beard/moustache is wrong and about how only "troglodytes", "Neanderthals", etc. have them. It's pure hate speech and I've encountered rabid hatred from readers of these magazines on internet forums where they were repeating the exact terms used in these sponsored articles. Yet somehow nothing is done about stuff like that despite that it leads to completely irrational hatred and discrimination (which is a basis for criminalizing hate speech when it's directed against some other groups) of some groups of people. And using hate speech for profit is probably the lowest of the low.

So, these people get conditioned for example enjoying the sight of someone having pieces of metal sticking out of their body (stuff promoted by these magazines) but to feel disgust to someone having a full beard (because no one spends money on promoting the idea of liking these looks - why? Because it's impossible to sell product for that. Actually, I've seen one site promoting the natural "afro" hair and defending it from defamation. But it still wasn't purely for idea but also for selling products designed for this kind of hair).

Yeah, so there's the black marketing about the games that we're playing. They are not only "outdated" and existed just because "there was no technology for making them as a FP cover shooter" but also "no one produces them" because "no one would buy them".

ORIGINAL: gunny

What's next, Close Combat FPS? I'm sure there is money to be made selling that license.

Already done. I played the first mission and I quit when I realised they expect me to die again and again until I'll go through the mission well.It's basically a corridor shooter and you have a ton of hitpoints and can use medi-kits - something between Doom and Modern Warfare. You go through a single "corridor" and face fixed challenges. The upside is that unlike in Operation Flashpoint, the team members seem to have some semblance of intelligence and there are some actions that you can order like room clearing, covering fire, etc. I really missed stuff like that when playing OFP. Though, it's quite possible that it's all scripted on the levels.

Anyway, one thing that puts me off from playing campaigns in these military shooters is the one advantage of the US forces that somehow they forget to represent campaigns. Namely, excellent training. These shooters just drop the player in without even a developed ability to shoot straight not to mention any tactics. So, a completely green player is sent to do a job of a soldier which obviously results in lots of re-loading and with loosing any semblance of realism.

Atomic Games were recently developing a new military shooter called Six Days in Fallujah that would wipe the floor with all the wannabe "military shooters" like Call of Duty and Modern Warfare (with dynamically destructive terrain, real ballistics and stuff like that), but the press got extremely butthurt and they had to can it. Ironically, if the wiki says truth, they were asked to make it by some Marines that were earlier cooperating with them on military sim which took part in the battle.

Apparently they made a multi-player shooter based on its engine called Breach. But it failed due to lots bugs (it always seems to happen when they try something really, really cool).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zgkP9ckIq0
Oh God, Oh God, Oh God, just look at the terrain destruction it's just like that thing that X-Com had 20 years ago and the "modern" AAA XCOM doesn't have!

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

ORIGINAL: Perturabo
I can't wait for someone to dig up the Steel Panthers license and making a cover shooter out of it.
It's obvious that if Gary Grigsby would have 3D technology, he'd make Steel Panthers as a cover shooter, right?

I'd buy that game [;)]

It would be a generic cover shooter, not any simulation, though. No ballistics simulation, no destructible terrain, campaign that is basically going through one corridor and doing some scripted shooting gallery and gimmicky multi-player.

EDIT:
Woohoo! Just as I have predicted:

Designer Rickard Johansson talked this up - "hopefully co-op is a great nod towards the old gang" - but argued that the old Syndicate formula had had its day. "I don't want people to stop playing the old games, but time has moved on."

http://www.oxm.co.uk/33611/why-the-synd ... g-history/

[D.Ilse]

no wonder why I've gone back to tabletop vs PC gaming in the recent years

[Perturabo]

ORIGINAL: D.Ilse

no wonder why I've gone back to tabletop vs PC gaming in the recent years

Personally, I just moved from being a general gamer that plays new sims, various subgenres of wargames, various subgenres of cRPGs, adventure games, platform games, shoot em ups, economic games, action games, FPS, action adventure, etc. to almost pure wargamer when it comes to new titles.
When it comes to the other genres, I'm playing almost exclusively old games, often 15 years old and I'm playing them less often than I used to.

[Jeffrey H.]

ORIGINAL: D.Ilse

no wonder why I've gone back to tabletop vs PC gaming in the recent years

I started that migration several years ago. It's been a really good move for me.

[Perturabo]

What is tabletop gaming like in present times? Are there any interesting mechanics in games that you play?

[Scott_WAR]

The best part of tabletop gaming in present times is the age old problem of finding someone to play agianst is solved by the internet and programs like vassal ( I think thats the name of it). While I havent made the move back to tabletop gaming yet,....... I plan to at some point becasue PC gaming really is going downhill for the turn based wargamer.

[Lützow]

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

I plan to at some point becasue PC gaming really is going downhill for the turn based wargamer.

Downhill you say? Those times are still heydays for TBS, compared to what happened to RPG's.

[Perturabo]

Not for turn-based wargamers. They regularly get a variety of turn-based wargames from different time periods on different command levels, and with levels of complexity ranging from simple to obscenely complex.

It's because there are many big publishers for such games and veteran developers haven't moved to other genres unlike with RPGs.

[jomni]

The Irony:  I play my tabletop wargames in the computer!
 

[ilovestrategy]

I'm gonna put in my two pennies here. As much as I love war-games, and I do love them, a big pain is clunky interfaces. War-games=click fest. Been that way since the 80s.

[Perturabo]

Generally, I tend to use keyboard shortcuts in all games that I play. No mouse interface can beat keyboard when it comes to choosing actions.
Also, I tend to play games that don't require me to move every unit by hand.