The Power of Inexperience / GreyJoy(A)-Rader(J)

[GreyJoy]

some images of the "Dunkirk" turn

[GreyJoy]

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[GreyJoy]

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[GreyJoy]

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[GreyJoy]

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[jmalter]

well that had something for everyone in it! i especially liked the night Mavis torpedo attack, w/ Kingfishers on CAP.

notice how generally ineffective the DeathStarTF was, except at the very end when it bliterated 4 DDs.

[GreyJoy]

The aftermath:
 
Ok friends, here's the analysis of this intense 2 days turn.
 
As you can see from this too-boring-too-long combat report (i'm sorry for that), our SCTFs (we had 8 different combat task forces) didn't achieve the main goal, so to say to stop the evacuation and interdict the enemy fast trasports. I still don't know how he did manage to get away with 23k men in one single night...i guess he sent dozens of single APDs to pick up the troops, leaving LBs to do the rest and to absorb the main blows.
Anyway, he lost 1 CL + 10 DDs i'd say, while i lost 8 DDs plus a lot of damaged ones on different degrees.
Our subs (22 of them) suffered badly and, when they have a chance of firing (at the BB for example), they were unlucky with missing shots or dud torps.
 
The outcome could have been really better if i hadn't set Thousands Ships bay as a destination hex for two DDTFs....these guys weren't able to fire a single torp to those BBs.
 
My aircrafts suffered badly too...his LRCAP did a good job and my SDBs and Avengers got slaughtered. Luckly enough the fact that the missions were performed over Tulagi saved a lot of lifes cause most of my pilots were rescued.
 
Our 4Es did a wonderfull job at Thousands Ships Bay, destroying nearly 130 planes on the ground and closing the AF for good.
 
His KB didn't show up, nor did his bombers....this wasn't meant to be a trap...he limited himself on the defensive so i probably could have sent in my BBs and my Cleveland Class CLs...but, as i said, it's easy to say that when you know the final result.
 
In the end wasn't a bad turn. Kind of a draw tactically but for sure Rader is paying a lot in terms of ship losses during these 6 months of Solomons Campaign...and everything was caused by his initial mistake at Tulagi...
 
The situation now is the following:
 
He still has his DeathStar-BB TF at Thousands Ships Bay, while the rest of his navy has left the field.
At Russell there are 300 fighters, 100 at Thousands (but the AF should not be operative) and 400 at Auki.
My intention now is to keep the pressure up. We'll move my SDBs and my TBs to Tassafaronga and Lunga, while more fighters will be added as escort. We want to chase down those BBs if we can... moved my subs to every single passage where his ships could pass by to reach the safety of Rabaul... a Bombardment TF composed of the Richmond CL, Australia CA and 8 Fletcher Class DDs will bomb Russell Island, while the Auki AF will be hit first swept by 150 Hellcats/Corsairs, followed by 150 4Es escorted by P-38s. The idea is to leave his BBs without air cover when our 200 SDBs and TBs will take off to attack them.
If he moves out and flee my subs should come into action...hoepfully.
 
I also wanna see how my Hellcats (with top pilots) perform on the offensive. I'll use them all at 35k ft, so 4000 ft higher than his planes...i should get the upper hand
 
In India...well it seems that he's not willing to keep on attacking me. The simple presence of the P-47s has finally changed the tide in India.
Now troops and supplies are arriving at Aden and soon we'll be able to move from the defence to the attack. The simple fact that now i have a good air cover over Karachi makes my life a lot easier!!!!
 
In SWPAC our fleet will need some R&R especially for what concerns my DDs...but i still have enough ships to keep the pressure on his defensive line. No rest will be given to the damned japs
 
 
However, he still has 30k men at Tulagi. Something like 2 divisions worth of troops. I will keep the chain around them as tight as i can

[obvert]

Interesting turn. He probably took a part of each of the units at Tulagi. He can't start rebuilding them, however, until the rest still left on Tulagi are gone. If you don't need the base all to yourself, it might be a good idea to leave them there to rot. It also might invite him to try and take them off again, so you get another shot at a bunch of ships.

Trades with the IJN are good, as you know, and it looks like this was a good turn in many ways for you. If he does get all of those DIVs out, though, he can sit them on the islands you'll be attacking in 44 and let them build up to full strength again. They should keep their EXP as well, since they weren't destroyed. So it might be wise to just let the troops on Tulagi stay there AS LONG as possible to make his rebuilding take longer.

[Smeulders]

Whether or not they keep their exp depends on how much he gets out. Taking replacements can lower the experience of LCUs, so taking out half and rebuilding the rest from the pools is likely to hurt the units.

You should take into account that he has probably taken out most of the 'easy' devices. Loading up the heavy guns or even motorized support (do the Japanese have that?) in his divisions might be harder and force his fast transport task forces to stay at Tulagi longer.

Can you give an overview of fleet losses up to now ? It seems you're hitting him hard in the DD/CL department. (Last turn you mainly sunk good pre-war DD, not his best, but the kind he will miss)

[GreyJoy]

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jun 14, 15 43
 
A damned unlucky turn.
 
His BBs tried to flee away moving east and then north, passing by Auki.
My subs were in a perfect poisition to strike at night.... 4 different subs attacked....only a single torp hit and exploded with 2 miss and 1 dud[:@]
 
The next day our fighters did a good job sweeping Auki...the opposition was stiff but we achieved a 2-1 kill ratio...(25 pilots KIA/MIA [:@]) but my 4Es were grounded for 2 days in a row so....we had the chance of desatroying hundreds of enemy fighters on the ground and...oh well..
 
Our Bombardment TF spent all its ammo killing 2 stupid PBs and decided to get away without firing at Russell Is....
 
Ok, sto whining...shit simply happens
 
The KB is moving down....west of Shortland now.
Orders have been given to assume the defensive posture!
 
All his other ships have left the area...
 
When the day came his Kates on ASW slaughter my subs positioned to intercept his BBs.... 8 sub killed in a single day[:o][:o][:o][:o][:o][:o][:o]
 
 
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Sub attack near Auki  at 115,136
 
Japanese Ships
      CA Atago
      CA Chokai
      DD Arashi
      DD Natsushio
      DD Tamanami
      E Otori
 
Allied Ships
      SS Hoe
 
 
 
SS Hoe launches 4 torpedoes at CA Atago
 
 
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Sub attack near Rekata Bay  at 114,134
 
Japanese Ships
      CA Aoba
      BB Hyuga
      BB Nagato
      E W-6
      E Kunashiri
      E Taneko
      E Teiko
      E W-17
      E W-14
 
Allied Ships
      SS Grayling
 
 
 
SS Grayling launches 4 torpedoes at CA Aoba

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ASW attack near Rekata Bay  at 113,133
 
Japanese Ships
      BB Hyuga
      BB Nagato
      CA Aoba
      E W-6
      E Kunashiri
      E Taneko
      E Teiko
      E W-17
      E W-14
 
Allied Ships
      SS Nautilus
 
  

 
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Sub attack near Rekata Bay  at 113,133
 
Japanese Ships
      E Teiko
      BB Hyuga
      BB Nagato
      CA Aoba
      E W-6
      E Kunashiri
      E Taneko
      E W-17
      E W-14
 
Allied Ships
      SS Nautilus, hits 6
 
 

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Day Time Surface Combat, near Russell Islands at 113,136, Range 27,000 Yards
 
Japanese Ships
      PB Choko Maru #2, Shell hits 22, and is sunk
      PB Eiko Maru, Shell hits 24, and is sunk
 
Allied Ships
      CA Australia
      CL Richmond
      CL Trenton
      DD Abbot
      DD Aulick
      DD Bache
      DD Chevalier
      DD Conway
      DD Anderson
      DD Blue
      DD Jarvis
      DD Craven
      DD Balch
      DD Clark
 
 
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ASW attack near Rekata Bay  at 112,133
 
Japanese Ships
      CA Aoba, Torpedo hits 1
      BB Mutsu
      CA Kinugasa
      E W-6
      E Etoforu
      E Taneko
      E Teiko
      E W-17
      E W-14
 
Allied Ships
      SS Finback
 
 
 
SS Finback launches 6 torpedoes at CA Aoba
 

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Auki at 115,136
 
Weather in hex: Light rain
 
Raid detected at 35 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      A6M2-N Rufe x 3
      A6M3a Zero x 10
      A6M5 Zero x 25
      N1K1-J George x 14
      Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 27
      Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 53
      Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 2
      Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 4
 
 
 
Allied aircraft
      F4U-1 Corsair x 18
      F6F-3 Hellcat x 36
      TBF-1 Avenger x 9
 
 
Japanese aircraft losses
      A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
      Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 1 destroyed
      Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed
      Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
 
Allied aircraft losses
      F4U-1 Corsair: 1 destroyed
      F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
      TBF-1 Avenger: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged
 
Japanese Ships
      ACM Shinko Maru #1,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
 
 
 
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Morning Air attack on Thousand Ships Bay , at 114,136
 
Weather in hex: Heavy rain
 
Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 37,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      A6M2-N Rufe x 13
      A6M3a Zero x 8
      A6M5 Zero x 8
      N1K1-J George x 7
      Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 3
      Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 18
      Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 4
      Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 3
 
 
 
Allied aircraft
      F6F-3 Hellcat x 75
 
 
Japanese aircraft losses
      A6M2-N Rufe: 5 destroyed
      A6M5 Zero: 2 destroyed
      N1K1-J George: 2 destroyed
      Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 2 destroyed
      Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
      Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 2 destroyed
 
Allied aircraft losses
      F6F-3 Hellcat: 4 destroyed
 
 
 
Aircraft Attacking:
      19 x F6F-3 Hellcat sweeping at 35000 feet
       3 x F6F-3 Hellcat sweeping at 35000 feet
       1 x F6F-3 Hellcat sweeping at 35000 feet
 
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Morning Air attack on Auki , at 115,136
 
Weather in hex: Light rain
 
Raid detected at 33 NM, estimated altitude 37,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      A6M3a Zero x 8
      A6M5 Zero x 20
      N1K1-J George x 9
      Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 22
      Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 35
      Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 1
      Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 4
 
 
 
Allied aircraft
      F6F-3 Hellcat x 61
 
 
Japanese aircraft losses
      A6M3a Zero: 1 destroyed
      A6M5 Zero: 2 destroyed
      N1K1-J George: 2 destroyed
      Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 2 destroyed
      Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 3 destroyed
 
Allied aircraft losses
      F6F-3 Hellcat: 8 destroyed
 
  
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Morning Air attack on Auki , at 115,136
 
Weather in hex: Light rain
 
Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 37,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      A6M3a Zero x 3
      A6M5 Zero x 14
      N1K1-J George x 5
      Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 12
      Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 21
      Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 1
      Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 2
 
 
 
Allied aircraft
      F4U-1 Corsair x 25
 
 
Japanese aircraft losses
      A6M3a Zero: 1 destroyed
      A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
      N1K1-J George: 1 destroyed
      Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 2 destroyed
      Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 2 destroyed
      Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
      Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed
 
Allied aircraft losses
      F4U-1 Corsair: 1 destroyed
 
  
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Ground combat at Tulagi (114,137)
 
Allied Bombardment attack
 
Attacking force 5341 troops, 261 guns, 146 vehicles, Assault Value = 1284
 
Defending force 31504 troops, 226 guns, 141 vehicles, Assault Value = 873
 
Japanese ground losses:
      216 casualties reported
         Squads: 0 destroyed, 21 disabled
         Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
         Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
      Vehicles lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)
 
 
 
Assaulting units:
    148th Infantry Regiment
    23rd Marine Regiment
    24th (Sep) Infantry Regiment
    145th Infantry Regiment
    3rd Marine Division
    1st Marine Raider Battalion
    627th Tank Destroyer Battalion
    754th Tank Battalion
    102nd Combat Engineer Regiment
    3rd USMC Tank Battalion
    139th USA  Base Force
    179th USAAF Base Force
    97th Field Artillery Battalion
    181st Field Artillery Regiment
    2nd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
    177th Construction Regiment
    102nd USN Base Force
    369th Coast AA Regiment
    21st USN Naval Construction Battalion
    96th Coast AA Regiment
    353rd Construction Regiment
    16th USN Naval Construction Battalion
    34th Aviation Base Force
    3rd USN Naval Construction Battalion
    57th Coastal Artillery Regiment
    7th Marine Defense Battalion
    I US Corps
    147th Field Artillery Regiment
    804th Engineer Aviation Battalion
    205th Field Artillery Battalion
    821st Engineer Aviation Battalion
    220th USN Base Force /2
 
Defending units:
    4th Division
    5th Division
    Ichiki Det.
    90th Infantry Regiment
    38th Division
    52nd Infantry Brigade
    71st Infantry Brigade
    36th Infantry Regiment
    64th Infantry Bde /1
    2nd Area Army
 
 
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Sub attack near Morotai  at 82,102
 
Japanese Ships
      xAK Tokyo Maru, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire,  heavy damage
 
Allied Ships
      SS Seawolf
 
Japanese ground losses:
      31 casualties reported
         Squads: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
         Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
         Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
      Guns lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled)
 
 
 
xAK Tokyo Maru is sighted by SS Seawolf
SS Seawolf launches 2 torpedoes at xAK Tokyo Maru
 
  
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Morning Air attack on Auki , at 115,136
 
Weather in hex: Severe storms
 
Raid detected at 34 NM, estimated altitude 38,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      A6M2-N Rufe x 2
      A6M5 Zero x 16
      N1K1-J George x 7
      Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 15
      Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 40
      Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 1
 
 
 
Allied aircraft
      F6F-3 Hellcat x 27
 
 
Japanese aircraft losses
      A6M2-N Rufe: 1 destroyed
      A6M5 Zero: 2 destroyed
      N1K1-J George: 1 destroyed
      Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 1 destroyed
      Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed
 
Allied aircraft losses
      F6F-3 Hellcat: 6 destroyed
 
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Morning Air attack on Thousand Ships Bay , at 114,136
 
Weather in hex: Severe storms
 
Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 37,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      A6M2-N Rufe x 7
      A6M3a Zero x 8
      A6M5 Zero x 4
      N1K1-J George x 2
      Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 2
      Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 6
      Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 11
      Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 3
 
 
 
Allied aircraft
      F6F-3 Hellcat x 62
 
 
Japanese aircraft losses
      A6M2-N Rufe: 4 destroyed
      A6M3a Zero: 4 destroyed
      A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
      N1K1-J George: 1 destroyed
      Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 1 destroyed
      Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 3 destroyed
      Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 3 destroyed
      Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 2 destroyed
 
Allied aircraft losses
      F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
 
 
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Morning Air attack on Auki , at 115,136
 
Weather in hex: Severe storms
 
Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 40,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      A6M5 Zero x 7
      N1K1-J George x 3
      Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 11
      Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 25
 
 
 
Allied aircraft
      F6F-3 Hellcat x 10
 
 
Japanese aircraft losses
      Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 3 destroyed
 
No Allied losses
 
 
 
 
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Morning Air attack on Auki , at 115,136
 
Weather in hex: Severe storms
 
Raid detected at 18 NM, estimated altitude 34,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      A6M5 Zero x 7
      N1K1-J George x 2
      Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 6
      Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 24
 
 
 
Allied aircraft
      F4U-1 Corsair x 19
 
 
Japanese aircraft losses
      A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
      Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 1 destroyed
      Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 4 destroyed
 
No Allied losses
 
 
 

[paullus99]

You're doing exactly what you need to do - attrit both his airforce & navy. The last couple of turns, while not fantastic, aren't Japanese victories either. He's lost quite a number of good ships (either permanently or will be in the yards for a while). If you can keep up the pressure, he's going to be forced to pull back fairly quickly.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

Whether or not they keep their exp depends on how much he gets out. Taking replacements can lower the experience of LCUs, so taking out half and rebuilding the rest from the pools is likely to hurt the units.

You should take into account that he has probably taken out most of the 'easy' devices. Loading up the heavy guns or even motorized support (do the Japanese have that?) in his divisions might be harder and force his fast transport task forces to stay at Tulagi longer.

Can you give an overview of fleet losses up to now ? It seems you're hitting him hard in the DD/CL department. (Last turn you mainly sunk good pre-war DD, not his best, but the kind he will miss)

Here's the wa-ship losses.... note that this list is affected by FOW so the BB has not sunk and neither a couple of CAs...but maybe BB Kongo did....

[GreyJoy]

last turn air battles result

[GreyJoy]

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[Smeulders]

His light combatants should be stretched to the breaking point if those losses are even nearly correct. CL you should already know, but even his DD are suffering badly. I know there are some extra DD in scen 2, but if this was scenario 1 he'd be down 50% of his DD fleet. A couple more nights like this and he'll be scrambling to even find enough DD to escort his other ships.

[JohnDillworth]

I got an email from the past.  It was from all the ship builders who built your 4 fast BB's.  They said something about if they had know you were going to just use these things as glorified AA platforms to escort CV's they never would have built them for you.  If there was ever a time to use them, this was it.  Those 4 BB's, plus an 8 DD screen, would have turned his WWI era BB's into paper weights. Enjoy having these fine ships burn fuel for the next 3 years and then be retired as sorry road side attractions where people will ask "What did these ships do in the war"? and they answer be: "Glorified cruise ships"
This concludes my editorial, cranky off

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

I got an email from the past.  It was from all the ship builders who built your 4 fast BB's.  They said something about if they had know you were going to just use these things as glorified AA platforms to escort CV's they never would have built them for you.  If there was ever a time to use them, this was it.  Those 4 BB's, plus an 8 DD screen, would have turned his WWI era BB's into paper weights. Enjoy having these fine ships burn fuel for the next 3 years and then be retired as sorry road side attractions where people will ask "What did these ships do in the war"? and they answer be: "Glorified cruise ships"
This concludes my editorial, cranky off

Hi John,

yeah, i know...but sincerly i smelled a trap there and my ship situtation is already so stretched for what concerns big ships that i really cannot efford to be anything less than iper-cautious...

I'm left with only 3 old BBs and the 5 new fast BBs...nothing more.
Remember that at PH he sunk THE ENTIRE pacific fleet...he stayed 8 days bombing the hell out of it...then my mistakes led me to the point where my BBs are now in a number so little that any use of them which is not absolutely necessary, is almost a NO-NO for me...

Please take these things into consideration when you judge my actions... a defeat here with my BBs sunk by his KB would have mean a halt to any of my future expansion plans...

[GreyJoy]

my sunk cruisers

[Miller]

8 days attacking PH[X(][&:][:-]

2 days max is acceptable IMHO.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: Miller

8 days attacking PH[X(][&:][:-]

2 days max is acceptable IMHO.

I read this thread from start unitl now. I am a newbie, but I think Radier paid a steep price for this but the results were slow in coming.. no HR needed. 8 Days of bombardment began a casacde effect of GreyJoy slowly taking the upper hand. The loss of elite pilots ...

It is funny how many IJ players see the KB. It is strong but delicate. Each raid no matter how small extracts a toll. Simply rading and attacking things just to sink ships does not win the war IMHO. IN this case what GreyJoy lacks in old battlewagons and old SCTF material the KB lacks in elite pilots.

Just my thought .. The KB could have been used much more judiciously and effectively in this campaign.