AE Land and AI Issues [OUTDATED]

[Andy Mac]

To late lost the lot !!!

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

...AndyMac is the Keeper of the Flame of Knowledge for all British and Commonwealth TOE decisions.

Then quick, you better stop him from going to Las Vegas and losing the "Flame".[:)]

Alfred

[Andy Mac]

Yup error not a DP gun fortuantely ceiling not a problem

ORIGINAL: Iron Duke

ORIGINAL: inqistor

There is Device 1044 12 Pounder CD Gun.

It is defined as DP, but its ceiling is 0. I wanted to find it somewhere, but I can not see any 12 Pounder with such large projectile, or such low range. It seems something is wrongly deined here.

Think this may be the British 12pdr QF Mk.1 (dated 1894) shell weight = 12.5 lb , max range = 8,000 or 10100 yd(both quoted in same reference) ,muz.vel = 2,258 ft/sec
cd gun for anti torpedo boat use (WW1 era torpedo boats)
not a DP gun

[Andy Mac]

Bugger error

ORIGINAL: inqistor

Scenario 6 (8th December beginning).

Chinese squads production numbers are not updated (they still produce at 200). It was changed in last data patch to 350 per month, but not in this Scenario.

[Andy Mac]

Yup CW 1945 is a proxy for CW troops serving in US TOE units as part of tiger force and only there

ORIGINAL: Heeward

Unit 6260 Groupment Massu Bde French Armored Unit. In general as the Free French were equipped with US equipment.  The unit appears to be a short combat command.

Looking at it It has in
WPN5 slot 1018 CW 1945 Rifle Squad   Should this be 1055 FFR Infantry Squad
WPN7 slot 1010 Bren Section (PIAT)      Should this be ?

Should the unit also have attached to it
1056 FFR Cmbt Engr - 9
1057 FFR MMG - 8
1126 0.5 M2HB AAMG x4 - 24?
251 Engineers - 3 to 4
Added Motorized Support (or not) This is a French unit.
Your thoughts?

[crsutton]

Andy,


The 56th and 37 Soviet motorized divisions both have 43 motorized squads, 600 trucks and about 100 AC and light tanks. Should these two units have the same mobility as an armored or mech unit? As it is now they are classified as infantry divisions and are no more mobile than any vanilla infantry unit.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Bugger error

ORIGINAL: inqistor

Scenario 6 (8th December beginning).

Chinese squads production numbers are not updated (they still produce at 200). It was changed in last data patch to 350 per month, but not in this Scenario.

Just for the record, I have two scen #2 games going-both started two years ago. Both have been patched up, yet one has the replacement rate at 350 for my Chinese squads and the other remains at 200. I am at a loss to explain this. We are in different beta versions now but even when we had both games in version q5 the rates were different.

[USSAmerica]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Bugger error

ORIGINAL: inqistor

Scenario 6 (8th December beginning).

Chinese squads production numbers are not updated (they still produce at 200). It was changed in last data patch to 350 per month, but not in this Scenario.

Just for the record, I have two scen #2 games going-both started two years ago. Both have been patched up, yet one has the replacement rate at 350 for my Chinese squads and the other remains at 200. I am at a loss to explain this. We are in different beta versions now but even when we had both games in version q5 the rates were different.

Huh. I'm playing a Scenario 1 game, started with the next to last official patch, but I think we didn't do the "database upgrade" for some reason at the time. I'm still only getting 200 Chinese squads per month. [:(]

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Andy,


The 56th and 37 Soviet motorized divisions both have 43 motorized squads, 600 trucks and about 100 AC and light tanks. Should these two units have the same mobility as an armored or mech unit? As it is now they are classified as infantry divisions and are no more mobile than any vanilla infantry unit.

If those were post-December 1942 motorised corps, they should have the mobility of an armoured unit.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Andy,


The 56th and 37 Soviet motorized divisions both have 43 motorized squads, 600 trucks and about 100 AC and light tanks. Should these two units have the same mobility as an armored or mech unit? As it is now they are classified as infantry divisions and are no more mobile than any vanilla infantry unit.

If those were post-December 1942 motorised corps, they should have the mobility of an armoured unit.

Well they are now with motorized 43 squads and are soon to get motorized 44 squads but perhaps I have not left them at "rest" to allow them to upgrade. I think I have but will check next turn.


No, I checked and all Soviet "motorized" units are basically infantry units and must walk, even though a motorized division has 600 vehicles where a regular Soviet division has no vehicular support. All my units have upgraded to 43 or 44 motorized squads. I realized that a lot of motorized units were only that in name, so perhaps this was the idea. Still, when a unit has that many vehicles one would expect it to be able to move along roads at a better clip than regular infantry.

Bear in mind that my Russians are not activated, so I really can not test their mobility. But my experience is that if it looks like an infantry unit (symbol), then it is an infantry unit.

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Andy,


The 56th and 37 Soviet motorized divisions both have 43 motorized squads, 600 trucks and about 100 AC and light tanks. Should these two units have the same mobility as an armored or mech unit? As it is now they are classified as infantry divisions and are no more mobile than any vanilla infantry unit.

If those were post-December 1942 motorised corps, they should have the mobility of an armoured unit.

Well they are now with motorized 43 squads and are soon to get motorized 44 squads but perhaps I have not left them at "rest" to allow them to upgrade. I think I have but will check next turn.


No, I checked and all Soviet "motorized" units are basically infantry units and must walk, even though a motorized division has 600 vehicles where a regular Soviet division has no vehicular support. All my units have upgraded to 43 or 44 motorized squads. I realized that a lot of motorized units were only that in name, so perhaps this was the idea. Still, when a unit has that many vehicles one would expect it to be able to move along roads at a better clip than regular infantry.

Bear in mind that my Russians are not activated, so I really can not test their mobility. But my experience is that if it looks like an infantry unit (symbol), then it is an infantry unit.

The Soviet forces in the Far East had two Motorized Rifle Corps (division-sized) between 1941 and 1945. They may not have been at full strength until the summer of 1945, but they were most definitely motorized. If you've been monitoring the discussion on Deep Battle, led by Nemo, you should recognise them as the mechanised core of the tank army with the mission of capturing and holding a major enemy logistics centre in the deep rear (ca 125 miles) in two to four days. At full strength, they had about 400 AV, and as these units were well-trained and part of the winning hand at Khalkhin Gol, they should be able to put a real hurt on any IJA units choosing to take them on.

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Andy,


The 56th and 37 Soviet motorized divisions both have 43 motorized squads, 600 trucks and about 100 AC and light tanks. Should these two units have the same mobility as an armored or mech unit? As it is now they are classified as infantry divisions and are no more mobile than any vanilla infantry unit.

Yes, they would be better represented as armored units. Design error.

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: herwin




If those were post-December 1942 motorised corps, they should have the mobility of an armoured unit.

Well they are now with motorized 43 squads and are soon to get motorized 44 squads but perhaps I have not left them at "rest" to allow them to upgrade. I think I have but will check next turn.


No, I checked and all Soviet "motorized" units are basically infantry units and must walk, even though a motorized division has 600 vehicles where a regular Soviet division has no vehicular support. All my units have upgraded to 43 or 44 motorized squads. I realized that a lot of motorized units were only that in name, so perhaps this was the idea. Still, when a unit has that many vehicles one would expect it to be able to move along roads at a better clip than regular infantry.

Bear in mind that my Russians are not activated, so I really can not test their mobility. But my experience is that if it looks like an infantry unit (symbol), then it is an infantry unit.

The Soviet forces in the Far East had two Motorized Rifle Corps (division-sized) between 1941 and 1945. They may not have been at full strength until the summer of 1945, but they were most definitely motorized. If you've been monitoring the discussion on Deep Battle, led by Nemo, you should recognise them as the mechanised core of the tank army with the mission of capturing and holding a major enemy logistics centre in the deep rear (ca 125 miles) in two to four days. At full strength, they had about 400 AV, and as these units were well-trained and part of the winning hand at Khalkhin Gol, they should be able to put a real hurt on any IJA units choosing to take them on.

There were no Motorized Rifle Corps in existence in the Far East (neither in the Far East nor in the Transbaikal MD) between 1941 and 1945.

Don't know where you got this info, but your statement is wrong. There were 61st and 111th Tank Divisions, the 36th and 57th Motorized Rifle Divisions and lots of Tank Brigades [some of them for some time formed into two provisional tank divisions) and a Armoured Car Brigade (unique formation, later converted to a Mechanized Brigade) but definitely no Motorized Rifle Corps (not even as HQ's for other formations).

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: crsutton



Well they are now with motorized 43 squads and are soon to get motorized 44 squads but perhaps I have not left them at "rest" to allow them to upgrade. I think I have but will check next turn.


No, I checked and all Soviet "motorized" units are basically infantry units and must walk, even though a motorized division has 600 vehicles where a regular Soviet division has no vehicular support. All my units have upgraded to 43 or 44 motorized squads. I realized that a lot of motorized units were only that in name, so perhaps this was the idea. Still, when a unit has that many vehicles one would expect it to be able to move along roads at a better clip than regular infantry.

Bear in mind that my Russians are not activated, so I really can not test their mobility. But my experience is that if it looks like an infantry unit (symbol), then it is an infantry unit.

The Soviet forces in the Far East had two Motorized Rifle Corps (division-sized) between 1941 and 1945. They may not have been at full strength until the summer of 1945, but they were most definitely motorized. If you've been monitoring the discussion on Deep Battle, led by Nemo, you should recognise them as the mechanised core of the tank army with the mission of capturing and holding a major enemy logistics centre in the deep rear (ca 125 miles) in two to four days. At full strength, they had about 400 AV, and as these units were well-trained and part of the winning hand at Khalkhin Gol, they should be able to put a real hurt on any IJA units choosing to take them on.

There were no Motorized Rifle Corps in existence in the Far East (neither in the Far East nor in the Transbaikal MD) between 1941 and 1945.

Don't know where you got this info, but your statement is wrong. There were 61st and 111th Tank Divisions, the 36th and 57th Motorized Rifle Divisions and lots of Tank Brigades [some of them for some time formed into two provisional tank divisions) and a Armoured Car Brigade (unique formation, later converted to a Mechanized Brigade) but definitely no Motorized Rifle Corps (not even as HQ's for other formations).

I was going from Glantz but using my knowledge of the relationship between MRD and MRC. The MRDs were part of the prewar organisation of the RKKA. During 1941-42, they were either disbanded or converted into MRCs. After the end of the war, the wartime Tank Corps were redesignated Tank Divisions, and the wartime Motorised Rifle Corps were redesignated Motorised Rifle Divisions. At full strength, the MRC was a square unit with three motorised rifle brigades and a tank brigade. The motorised rifle brigade was also a square unit with three motorised rifle battalions and a tank regiment (about 40 tanks). The tank brigade had two or three tank battalions (@21 tanks each) and a motorised SMG battalion (the tank marines). There are various sources with this information, including the US Army WWII-era and 1950s FMs on the RKKA/Soviet Army, various wartime and post-war German language publications, and post-war Russian language publications. Tracing the history of RKKA/Soviet Army organisational changes was a bit of a cottage industry during the Cold War.

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

ORIGINAL: herwin




The Soviet forces in the Far East had two Motorized Rifle Corps (division-sized) between 1941 and 1945. They may not have been at full strength until the summer of 1945, but they were most definitely motorized. If you've been monitoring the discussion on Deep Battle, led by Nemo, you should recognise them as the mechanised core of the tank army with the mission of capturing and holding a major enemy logistics centre in the deep rear (ca 125 miles) in two to four days. At full strength, they had about 400 AV, and as these units were well-trained and part of the winning hand at Khalkhin Gol, they should be able to put a real hurt on any IJA units choosing to take them on.

There were no Motorized Rifle Corps in existence in the Far East (neither in the Far East nor in the Transbaikal MD) between 1941 and 1945.

Don't know where you got this info, but your statement is wrong. There were 61st and 111th Tank Divisions, the 36th and 57th Motorized Rifle Divisions and lots of Tank Brigades [some of them for some time formed into two provisional tank divisions) and a Armoured Car Brigade (unique formation, later converted to a Mechanized Brigade) but definitely no Motorized Rifle Corps (not even as HQ's for other formations).

I was going from Glantz but using my knowledge of the relationship between MRD and MRC. The MRDs were part of the prewar organisation of the RKKA. During 1941-42, they were either disbanded or converted into MRCs. After the end of the war, the wartime Tank Corps were redesignated Tank Divisions, and the wartime Motorised Rifle Corps were redesignated Motorised Rifle Divisions. At full strength, the MRC was a square unit with three motorised rifle brigades and a tank brigade. The motorised rifle brigade was also a square unit with three motorised rifle battalions and a tank regiment (about 40 tanks). The tank brigade had two or three tank battalions (@21 tanks each) and a motorised SMG battalion (the tank marines). There are various sources with this information, including the US Army WWII-era and 1950s FMs on the RKKA/Soviet Army, various wartime and post-war German language publications, and post-war Russian language publications. Tracing the history of RKKA/Soviet Army organisational changes was a bit of a cottage industry during the Cold War.

The Motorized Rifle Divisions and Tank Divisions in the FE (including Zabaikal) were not disbanded (or even restructured) before the end of the war and any knowledge about the post war structure of the Red Army is completely irrelevant when it comes to the Red Army between 1941-45. And Glantz (or any other source) does not mention any Motorized Rifle Corps in the FE 1941-45.

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen




There were no Motorized Rifle Corps in existence in the Far East (neither in the Far East nor in the Transbaikal MD) between 1941 and 1945.

Don't know where you got this info, but your statement is wrong. There were 61st and 111th Tank Divisions, the 36th and 57th Motorized Rifle Divisions and lots of Tank Brigades [some of them for some time formed into two provisional tank divisions) and a Armoured Car Brigade (unique formation, later converted to a Mechanized Brigade) but definitely no Motorized Rifle Corps (not even as HQ's for other formations).

I was going from Glantz but using my knowledge of the relationship between MRD and MRC. The MRDs were part of the prewar organisation of the RKKA. During 1941-42, they were either disbanded or converted into MRCs. After the end of the war, the wartime Tank Corps were redesignated Tank Divisions, and the wartime Motorised Rifle Corps were redesignated Motorised Rifle Divisions. At full strength, the MRC was a square unit with three motorised rifle brigades and a tank brigade. The motorised rifle brigade was also a square unit with three motorised rifle battalions and a tank regiment (about 40 tanks). The tank brigade had two or three tank battalions (@21 tanks each) and a motorised SMG battalion (the tank marines). There are various sources with this information, including the US Army WWII-era and 1950s FMs on the RKKA/Soviet Army, various wartime and post-war German language publications, and post-war Russian language publications. Tracing the history of RKKA/Soviet Army organisational changes was a bit of a cottage industry during the Cold War.

The Motorized Rifle Divisions and Tank Divisions in the FE (including Zabaikal) were not disbanded (or even restructured) before the end of the war and any knowledge about the post war structure of the Red Army is completely irrelevant when it comes to the Red Army between 1941-45. And Glantz (or any other source) does not mention any Motorized Rifle Corps in the FE 1941-45.

You're right about the MRDs. Glantz (1983) describes those two motorised rifle divisions as "a remnant of the 1941 force structure." The 6th GTA also had two standard mechanised corps (MRCs) and a standard tank corps. There was another MRC(-) in the east. The count of tanks, tank battalions, and motorised rifle battalions in the 6th GTA is consistent with the MRDs being organised as MRCs. I've seen his Russian language sources, but only as borrowed copies.

My sources were the 1945 TM 30-430, House (1984), and a bunch of Soviet publications. They were primarily concerned with the main show.

[jcjordan]

Not sure if this has been posted or not but in looking at the database w/ the current betas it looks like the problems still exist in scen #1 but assume it'd go thru about all other scen as well.
 
1) For airunits at Petropavlovsk that don't have the range to get to the mainland they can't upgrade due to being assigned to Soviet FE Cmd HQ & not in range to fly to it to upgrade. Solution might be to make Kamchatka Cmd HQ a command lvl HQ instead of it's current corp level.
 
2) 7005 246th Rifle Brig can't combine w/ other units to form the parent div due to being assigned to Sov FE Cmd whereas the other units as well as the parent are 5th Rifle Corp HQ.

[amatteucci]

It's only a minor nitpick, anyway...
The correct designations for the Soviet Iosif Stalin heavy tanks (and for the SP guns based on these tanks) are: IS-2, IS-3, IS-122, IS-152 and not JS-2, JSU-122 etc.

[btbw]

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/7379/screenshot221a.jpg
Scenario 6
http://www.mediafire.com/?krwc1dbaqyyl62x
All Air Defense units not have AA artillery, only machineguns. Some of units receive 12cm T03 AA Gun in 900+ days but before ( and some never got upgrade and receive AA gun) it useless LCUs.

[Heeward]

Scenario One
Unit 7847 Convoy WS.18/OS22 Supply Convoy
Weapon 5 - 82mm Mortar  - 24 Device 1307 should these be Device 1040 3" Mortar?
or perhaps 81mm Mortar device 1306?

[Andy Mac]

Nope they are Chinese LL Mortars