Well he ain't doing ti for points. It's not worth anything. He can build a level 4 airfield. Could be a couple of things:
1.) Diversion. Pulls your attention away from the real prize. Makes you pull some or all of your carriers thousands of miles away.
2.) trying to set up a Midway style attack. KB is lurking and is going to trap you. Not a ton of supporting airfields or bases so it will be a carrier on carrier battle. Not Bloody likely.
3.) Battle of attrition. Might cause you to divide your airforce onto a 3rd front. Probably has the area and routes to the area flooded with subs
4.) Something, anything to remain of the offensive.
I vote number 4. Worst case is he captures a couple of bases. Good for him. Now keep them supplied while I invade elsewhere. Got to say, from here it smacks of desperation. Best ignored.
Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly
Well he ain't doing ti for points. It's not worth anything. He can build a level 4 airfield. Could be a couple of things:
1.) Diversion. Pulls your attention away from the real prize. Makes you pull some or all of your carriers thousands of miles away.
2.) trying to set up a Midway style attack. KB is lurking and is going to trap you. Not a ton of supporting airfields or bases so it will be a carrier on carrier battle. Not Bloody likely.
3.) Battle of attrition. Might cause you to divide your airforce onto a 3rd front. Probably has the area and routes to the area flooded with subs
4.) Something, anything to remain of the offensive.
I vote number 4. Worst case is he captures a couple of bases. Good for him. Now keep them supplied while I invade elsewhere. Got to say, from here it smacks of desperation. Best ignored.
1) I keep my 6 original CVs in OZ for the moment, while the rest of my CV fleet will remain at PH waiting to see what happens
2) As far as i can tell close to Rabaul we just have spotted a CV force of at least 180 fighters and 180 bombers...DEATH STAR won't be in Nopac consequently.
3) yes but first he has to conquer the base...how can he be sure to conquer it after what happened at Tulagi when a couple of marine regiments stopped on the beaches 5 japanese Divisions???
4)...i won't lose my mind for this operation. If i can attritt him here, the better...if not he can have the base and rot on that icy piece of stone till Jesus comes down to save us all
....
4.) Something, anything to remain of the offensive.
I vote number 4. Worst case is he captures a couple of bases. Good for him. Now keep them supplied while I invade elsewhere. Got to say, from here it smacks of desperation. Best ignored.
This seems to be a mantra of JFB's as I read the AAR's. A very strong belief that keeping the offensive initiative is paramount to survival. My opponent also strongly believes this to be true. I do not know enough about the game to comment from that standpoint, but I do feel strongly from a common sense perspective that once auto-victory is no longer feasible that defense is going to get one to 1946. I was referred to another one of Rader's AAR's "Taming the Russian Bear" with the the same operational M.O. -- actually quite successful until sudden collapse.
I think there is a point in this game which the orignal RL plan comes into play. Establish a very strong perimenter and extract a toll that delays the inevitable. I think looking at the game and reading AAR's Rader is beyond that point. Although GreyJoy has been encoutering strong resistance -- I think the total collaspe is near. Much like the Russian experince with the Destrcution of Army Group Center. Resistance, Restistance, Restistiance .. Collapse.
It will be a lot of fun to follow along ....[;)]
"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"
I would think differently than most of the above. If he's making this move, there is a reason, most likely. I doubt it has anything to do with desperation. Remember, he still controls 90% of India and it's HI, resources, etc. India supports itself and ADDs HI to his pools. He seems to be making enough planes to lose 300 in two turns and not blink.
He has probably also accelerated every ship he can and added huge amounts of HI to research on some of the pretty toys JFBs usually can't get before the end of 45. What is the earliest anyone has seen a Toko rocket or an IJA jet squadron?
I think this is purely a psychological move with low risk. Yes, he is committing DIVs, but how many has he taken out of China by now? And yes, it could be a lure.
As you said earlier, this kind of operation has nothing to do with his ability to defend the inside perimeter of islands, where he has built and stationed plenty of prepped units just waiting around for you to try to take them.
As for advice, I would proceed exactly as you are, but don't commit too much up there. As you say, it doesn't matter much anyway who has the Aleutians if he has 20,000 soldiers dug in on each one of the Kuriles anyway.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
the same operational M.O. -- actually quite successful until sudden collapse.
Interesting comment. I think some of us suspect the same might happen here and Geryjoy needs to be ready to exploit it. The declining pilot quality is telling. This is the time when the cornucopia of Allied goodies starts to flow, and never stops. Once those APA's start to show the Allies can hit with multiple hammer blows at wildly diverse places on the map. Remember what happened after Kursk, Barbarossa in reverse.
Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly
Is this prep info sudden, or have you been getting it for quite awhile?
Gets some transport aircraft squadrons up there and start airlifiting in some excess troops from Adak or vicinity. You can increase your garrison markedly in just a few days. Don't delay on this. Even if you have to move the aircraft in stages all the way from Oz, get some going. You'll want them. The sooner the better.
What in the world is rader thinking?
Yup, already 2 Regiments are being airlifted from nearby bases and some training squadrons are being transfered from Seattle Area.
The 25th Division is being prepping for a while now but i thought it was just one of the multi-deception actions by Rader (divisions are prepping since 41 for Brisbane, Aukland, Sydney, PH etc etc).
I have the equivalent of a reinforced regiment there (3 BNs + 1 combat Eng Bn) and 6 lvl forts with 70k supplies...
I'm not scared anyway....even if i lose the Island i won't lose anything important and i'll be able to get back there pretty easily...
Subs are being sent there to flood the whole area, while i keep 3 CVs, 2 CVLs and 4 CVE at PH...eventually ready to come in if needed...
Yes, I don't see much advantage in him snatching one base in the Aleutians chain. You will be able to suppress it from your other bases anyways. I can't figure what he is up to. Perhaps his is just worried about your future operations from these advanced bases.
Stupid me again. I moved my CVEs from SF to PH in order to join the Essex...guess what?...i ate the bait and another CVE (a good one!) is now on the bottom of the ocean...damned subs!!!
I know...i know...don't tell me please...i know i'm a dumbass...
However not everything went wrong....he landed with 4 regiments and 2 divisions....shock attacked...and got 12000 casualities[:D]
Tonight i'll report more about this bloody turn... SS Whale got sunk by another enemy sub[X(] and my subs attacked 4 times his invading fleet and i got 4 duds....[:@]
But the landings were repulsed...if only i hadn't moved the CVEs...stupid GJ....[:o]
That's good news, GreyJoy. Congrats.
As for the CVE, what're you supposed to do? Leave 'em in port the entire game? Naw, I've tried that tactic before (against Q-Ball) and it aint a whole lotta fun for either side. Unless you intentionally moved into waters you knew were infested, stopped, hung out a big sign that said "Here, sink me!", no recriminations are permitted.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
Stupid me again. I moved my CVEs from SF to PH in order to join the Essex...guess what?...i ate the bait and another CVE (a good one!) is now on the bottom of the ocean...damned subs!!!
I don't understand. How are you moving these? I presume you are escorting them with plenty of high ASM escorts? 6DD's or DE's should be more than enough. The only other things you can do are take diverse course and set your Avengers on ASW. They won't sink many subs but they will probably spot the subs. That usually gives your escorts first shot.
BTW take my advice with a grain of salt. I just learned in another thread that since I only play against the AI I'm playing an entirley different game then you are
Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly
P.S. One reason this invasion doesn't seem to make any sense: Rader just used and lost a heckuva lot of assets to try to recover parts of five divisions marooned on an enemy-held island. Now he goes and gets 3-plus division equivalent similarly stranded. Whatzamatta wit him?
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
I say i was stupid cause he surely was waiting for me ouside SF even if my naval search didn't spot anything...however his landing forces have been completely annihilated. 440 squads destroyed and more disabled...now a cruiser (CL Perth) will move in trying to interdict his landing ships while our CVs will move closer towards Midway...he has "only" 100 fighters and 180 bombers in his CV division committed here...i have 330 planes in my CVs at PH...if he lingers there i'll be able to stand a fight...
I say i was stupid cause he surely was waiting for me ouside SF even if my naval search didn't spot anything...however his landing forces have been completely annihilated. 440 squads destroyed and more disabled...now a cruiser (CL Perth) will move in trying to interdict his landing ships while our CVs will move closer towards Midway...he has "only" 100 fighters and 180 bombers in his CV division committed here...i have 330 planes in my CVs at PH...if he lingers there i'll be able to stand a fight...
I just don't get his motivations. Perhaps he thought it was lightly defended? How much recon do you think he did? Was he constantly looking or just sent a couple of search planes over the day before?
Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly
I agree that tactically this is not a great move. In fact a silly move. But that's just it. Why would someone who just rolled China and India think it's a good idea to strand some big units in the Aleutians, (which so far haven't been a big factor in the game), and just after losing a few big pieces in the Solomons. (I bet he got enough off to make them count later however, once they rebuild after the last pieces fall on Tulagi).
So why is he doing this?
Is it a distraction, meant to lure GJ from other more important theatres and give him time to prepare things there?
Is it a trap for the Allied fleets coming up thinking they can get an advantage over the few CVs he's committed?
Or is he losing focus and didn't do enough homework on what was up there and what kind of forts and prep they might have had?
Based on the first report this looks like a fiasco for Rader. If he now has to wait a week for another attack, and GJ flies more units in, it's all over folks.
I'm just intensely curious what is going on. It seems there has to be a reason behind this move, but of course Rader has shown time and again he's willing to throw units around like no one else if he has a goal in mind.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
I can hear Lance J. Holt [of the WWII Color of War series] in the background .. "and the Japansese followed thier defeat in the Solomons with yet another disaster in the Aleutians Islands" [film of Browning BAR .30 cal and .50 cal machine guns cutting down the Japs on the beaches and drowning ..]. Though a CVL was lost to a submarine outside of San Francisco and President Roosevelt questioned Admiral King on the defense of the West Coast .. the fate of the Imperial Japaneese Empire was sealed ....[cutting to scene of Mac and Nimitz drooling over a map of the Pacific] It was only a matter of time that the Americans would strike .. but where? [cut to Commerical ].. "In the next episode ..." [8D]
"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"
NYGiants and Nemo are both psychiatrists (or something related) and both are excellent players. Perhaps they will weigh in on what rader's thinking and doing.
From my perspective, I think he has so much stuff to play with (thanks to the near-conquest of China) that he's just looking for ways to use them. He played a hunch and got burned. It's not the first time he's been burned, but it appears that it's taking him some time to adjust to the notion that he may have lost the initiative in this game. Some of you are thinking: Hey, it's late '43, how can he not know that? Well, it's Scenario Two and he's essentially vanquished China and holds most of India, so he's remained potent much later than you would ordinarly expect.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
Ok, here's the combat report...
At first lots of failed subs attacks...
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ASW attack near Petropavlovsk at 143,49
Japanese Ships
E W-25
E W-24
Allied Ships
SS Lapon
Then an enemy sub torpedoed my SS Whale...[:-]
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Sub vs Sub: SS I-169 attacking SS Whale at 115,129 - near Ontong Java
Japanese Ships
SS I-169
Allied Ships
SS Whale, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
SS I-169 launches 2 torpedoes at 1,000 yards
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ASW attack near Petropavlovsk at 143,49
Japanese Ships
DD Karii
AO Toho Maru
AO Nippon Maru
AO Kokuyo Maru
E Sanae
Allied Ships
SS Lapon, hits 1
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Sub attack near Bering Island at 146,49
Japanese Ships
AO Kokuyo Maru
AO Toho Maru
E Sanae
Allied Ships
SS Cabrilla
Two "dud" torps against AOs....[:o]
Then we bombed Auki....while his BBs remain at Vella la Vella and his other CVs at Kavieng...
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Morning Air attack on Auki , at 115,136
Weather in hex: Light rain
Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 3
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 9
Allied aircraft
Boomerang C-12 x 1
B-24D1 Liberator x 126
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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jul 17, 43
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Sub attack near Eureka at 207,69
Japanese Ships
SS I-26
Allied Ships
CVE Santee, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage[:o]
Then arrives his invasion.....
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Pre-Invasion action off Shemya Island (154,49) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force
190 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
CL Yubari, Shell hits 1
CL Tenryu, Shell hits 2
CL Katori, Shell hits 3
PC Ashi
PB Fukuei Maru
PB Zuikai Maru
PB Kongosan Maru
PB Kamitsu Maru
PB Chokai Maru
AK Yamazuki Maru
xAK Tyoko Maru
xAK Reiyo Maru
xAK Sekiho Maru
xAKL Suez Maru
E Fukue
E Otori
xAK Ryoka Maru
xAKL Kinkasan Maru
Japanese ground losses:
167 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 18 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
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Amphibious Assault at Shemya Island (154,49)
TF 45 troops unloading over beach at Shemya Island, 154,49
Japanese ground losses:
686 casualties reported
Squads: 10 destroyed, 44 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 19 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 4 (0 destroyed, 4 disabled)
Vehicles lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Defending units:
87th Mountain Rgt /1
297th Infantry/ 1st Battalion
198th Infantry Battalion
18th Combat Engineer Regiment
197th Infantry Battalion
4th (Sep) Infantry Rgt /1
151st USA Base Force
183rd USAAF Base Force
813th Engineer Aviation Battalion
XI US Fighter Cmnd
4th USN Naval Construction Regiment
149th USA Base Force
180th USAAF Base Force
12th USN Naval Construction Regiment
48th USN Naval Construction Battalion
1/250th Cst Art Bn /4
As you can see was a bloody turn...
My P-400 flying CAP over Shamra Isl. fought a hard battle against his zeros on LRCAP over his landing fleet...we lost 4 P-400 against 1 Zero and 1 Kate but their sacrifice gave space and time to P-47s and Catalinas to fly in reinforcements from other islands...
Now CL Perth will try to interdict his operations, while 3 Allied CVs and 2 CVLs divided in 2 TFs will approach midway...
Our subs will keep on trying to get a lucky shot and some 20 2Es are ordered to move to Shamra Is., along with 15 P-40Ks
While this happens, my modern BBs will move back to Tulagi after having replenished at Ndeni...
Rader in his email told me he tried to surprise me invading without recon...he thought the base wasn't well defended... sincerly it sounds strange from Rader who has always so carefull with details...[X(]....
Till the last second i really thought he was bluffing...now that i know he committed a mistake i'll try to exploit this and see what we can do...if only my torps would start to get REALLY better....[:@]
Stupid me again. I moved my CVEs from SF to PH in order to join the Essex...guess what?...i ate the bait and another CVE (a good one!) is now on the bottom of the ocean...damned subs!!!
I don't understand. How are you moving these? I presume you are escorting them with plenty of high ASM escorts? 6DD's or DE's should be more than enough. The only other things you can do are take diverse course and set your Avengers on ASW. They won't sink many subs but they will probably spot the subs. That usually gives your escorts first shot.
BTW take my advice with a grain of salt. I just learned in another thread that since I only play against the AI I'm playing an entirley different game then you are
I have my CVE following an ASW TF composed of 3 DDs and 1 APD...my avengers were on 40 naval and 40 ASW...but those bastards attack at night and my ASW didn't spot them first... bad luck....gotta also say that i took the most direct route for PH and for sure Rader was waiting for me there...he's smart with subs....
I agree that tactically this is not a great move. In fact a silly move. But that's just it. Why would someone who just rolled China and India think it's a good idea to strand some big units in the Aleutians, (which so far haven't been a big factor in the game), and just after losing a few big pieces in the Solomons. (I bet he got enough off to make them count later however, once they rebuild after the last pieces fall on Tulagi).
So why is he doing this?
Is it a distraction, meant to lure GJ from other more important theatres and give him time to prepare things there?
Is it a trap for the Allied fleets coming up thinking they can get an advantage over the few CVs he's committed?
Or is he losing focus and didn't do enough homework on what was up there and what kind of forts and prep they might have had?
Based on the first report this looks like a fiasco for Rader. If he now has to wait a week for another attack, and GJ flies more units in, it's all over folks.
I'm just intensely curious what is going on. It seems there has to be a reason behind this move, but of course Rader has shown time and again he's willing to throw units around like no one else if he has a goal in mind.
Pretty sure was a fiasco. simple and plain. No, he's not going to get another shot. His entire landing force has been annihilated...he simply has to retire.
However if he wanna keep on invading the Aleutinas...he'll be welcome! Another "Solomons" is exactly what i want now... and if he lures there too much...my CVs are coming...3 of them with a pair of CVLs...enough to ruin his day...
