ORIGINAL: wodin
I honesty believ thet a software company would have enough time to get out a patch to bi pass the drm before they go bankrupt.
The problem is that this might be viewed by auditors as de-valueing the assets of the about to fail company, which is a big no-no.
ORIGINAL: wodin
I also believe that most would do it aswell.
Can I interest you in some investment in Nigeria ?
No offense intended, I've been reading your posts for years and you seem like a nice, knowledgeable guy - so it pains me a bit that you will get shafted by those companies you trust so much.
Call me paranoid as much as you like - I call it decades of experience with how companies operate.
ORIGINAL: Lieste
I'm not prepared to jump hurdles to get to it, then you've lost my interest - the internet is full of interesting things, and my shelf full of interesting games already...
Should be a chapter title in every business book : do not make your customers jump through hoops to get to the product you want to sell them.
Junk - Thanks for the heads up on the PB & PL Mod for the JTCS games!
Dude the MOD is so sweet!! 2nd I thought the JTCS was 500metes per Hex,thanks for the correction.
Lastly
As far as the Panzer Battles game I would love to see more screen shots and a release date..
Diplomacy without arms is like music without instruments.
ORIGINAL: sterckxe
Then when someone like me just answers that OP question with plain facts, they suddenly come out of the woodwork and basically tell me to shut up
Well one obvious fact is you are a lot paranoid.
While you are waxing prophetic, I will be enjoying the games from John Tiller, Battlefront and the like.
ORIGINAL: sterckxe
Then when someone like me just answers that OP question with plain facts, they suddenly come out of the woodwork and basically tell me to shut up
Well one obvious fact is you are a lot paranoid.
While you are waxing prophetic, I will be enjoying the games from John Tiller, Battlefront and the like.
While he will certainly be enjoying other products, which don't require existence of some special servers and internet connection to work.
The last thing on someones mind who is going out of business is to do any extra work even remotely related to what the business did before it went out of business.
The reality is, is that there is just as much chance of a company releasing a DRM removing patch as there is of a company not releasing a DRM removing patch. People prefer to view one of these situations as being more probable than the other to support their own views.
Neither is right or wrong, as long as you are prepared to make a decision and live by the decision, if you choose not to buy, be happy with that. If you choose to buy, be hapy with that also. There's no need or reason to try and convert a person from one train of thought to the other because that's pretty much impossible.
I could argue till I'm blue in the face that JTS (or more correctly Tiller himself) has demonstrated over a decade of continous product support (in various guises) and as such, that demonstrated track should be taken into consideration when making a decision. But I could never categorically refute the fact that I could be left high and dry with unusuable software. It's a risk I choose to take in this particular situation. Alternatively, the people who choose not to buy cannot categorically prove that the company will go out of business and a DRM removing patch won't be released. So we are left with two unprovable arguments which is where the judgement call is required to suit the individual.
On the other hand, as much as I would like to buy the naval wargames by Storm Eagle Studio, I wouldn't because when I way up the circumstances surrounding that particular decision I come down on the other side of the fence (a no buy decision).
ORIGINAL: sterckxe
Then when someone like me just answers that OP question with plain facts, they suddenly come out of the woodwork and basically tell me to shut up
Well one obvious fact is you are a lot paranoid.
While you are waxing prophetic, I will be enjoying the games from John Tiller, Battlefront and the like.
Good luck.
The irony here being that this puppy here won't need to be lucky, but you will.
ORIGINAL: Perturabo
While he will certainly be enjoying other products, which don't require existence of some special servers and internet connection to work.
I always get a chuckle out of some publishers thinking they're the only show in town and which throw up barriers between my $50 and their own bank account. Good luck getting that compensated by the $50 from some kid in China on a 10 cents a week allowance, which you prevented from pirating your game with your precious DRM.
I suspect it will be like Campaign Series but with more detailed and less generic units (you see number of people instead of steps, etc.).
ORIGINAL: sterckxe
... and good luck complaining about installation or other game problems on their forum - they haven't got one.
It simply amazes me every time that there are actually people who buy stuff under these conditions.
Ok I'm coming out in the dark to share my experience. The DRM system did turn against me. It is tied to your MAC address which may change if you change some of your PC components. So I had multiple PC installation problems with Squad Battles Modern War and they sorted it out via email communication. They did stuff by sending me new files and reseting the data in servers.
All in all, I am satisfied in the way they handled it unlike BattleFront.
ORIGINAL: jomni
So I might have very good luck then. I had multiple PC installation problems and they sorted it out via email communication.
DRM related problems ? <evil grin>
I'm starting to see how *not* having a forum might be a huge advantage here - if too many people are having problems with installing the game and they posted about this in the company forum, this would certainly deter others from buying it. With email who's to know ?
A company forum is a bit like a public record of how a company treats its customers and how honest and open they are with regard to problems with the product - not having one is another strike against them in my eyes.
ORIGINAL: sterckxe
Then when someone like me just answers that OP question with plain facts, they suddenly come out of the woodwork and basically tell me to shut up
Well one obvious fact is you are a lot paranoid.
While you are waxing prophetic, I will be enjoying the games from John Tiller, Battlefront and the like.
Good luck.
The irony here being that this puppy here won't need to be lucky, but you will.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Or unlucky, depending on which side of the fence you are on!
ORIGINAL: sterckxe
I always get a chuckle out of some publishers thinking they're the only show in town and which throw up barriers between my $50 and their own bank account. Good luck getting that compensated by the $50 from some kid in China on a 10 cents a week allowance, which you prevented from pirating your game with your precious DRM.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
+1
Love that statement right there - in particular the bold.
I don't follow your advice as I buy what I want if I want it...but I totally agree with the statement. I know by buying what I want when I want doesn't really help combat developers who fit your statement - and I do wish I was more controlled...but I'm not.
Just wanted you to know I thought your statement makes 100% sense and "wtf are they thinking"?
ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
I don't follow your advice as I buy what I want if I want it.
Same here - but I find that after a day in the office dealing with Oracle licences here, M$ licences there, <F-swearword> Adobe all over the place, I have a natural aversion to dealing with that sort of stuff in my own free time.
The day I have to beg some 2-bit publisher to "please allow me to play my game I paid $50 for" is the day the computer goes out the window. I just won't put up with that sort of crap - excusez le mot - so the "want" factor of such a game is automatically below zero for me.
Neither is right or wrong, as long as you are prepared to make a decision and live by the decision, if you choose not to buy, be happy with that. If you choose to buy, be hapy with that also. There's no need or reason to try and convert a person from one train of thought to the other because that's pretty much impossible.
Mark
That pretty much nails it.
Meditation on inevitable death should be performed daily.
I think alot of people "try", consiously or subconsiously, to convert people to enforce their policy.
For example, Eddy's statement is quite clear with regard to how he sees DRM. I'm not saying he's trying to convert anyone - but it makes sense that he "wants to spread the word" - because the fewer people that succumb to the drm that's becoming more prevelant, the less likely that drm will be around in the future (or the sooner it will meet it's demise)
And to be fair - you can look at Ubisoft and it's "always activate and connect" crap and see what kind of disasterous decisions some companies make. If it were not for people like Eddy making a stand against these DRM schemes, you'd be suffering "always connected" DRM from EVERY publisher....and that might be okay for you, or the next guy - but what about the wee guy who doesn't have a constant internet connection? So he's to give up gaming because we allow these buggers to get away with their DRM crap?
I totally respect people like Eddy and their stand. DRM is a bloody beast that should not be supported in any way shape or form. All it brings (truly) is grief for the legitimate purchaser.
We all have "levels". Eddy's is the Matrix system. Mine? I have no favoured one...as I said above if I want a game I'll buy it. I'm not helping Eddy's cause (or mine) by doing so...and that is my shame to bear.
DRM is NOT something that should be put in the way of a legitimate purchaser - and yet companies think it's fine. It's not.....
Eddy - if only I had the balls to stand by you I would...but I'm weak when it comes to my hobby. The shame of it is, I'm helping send it down the pan!
Whilst I don't actively support Eddy and his like (for selfish reasons), I totally respect their stand.
You should thank them for making a stand also. It's their efforts that have "slowed" these ridiculous DRM schemes that punish legitimate purchasers.
Well I guess I should re-chime in here since I was the culprit who asked the DRM question in the first place. For one, I stopped buying hard copy games which required the cd to run, because is that not a subtle form of a DRM? Sure if you loose the disc then it is your own fault but should some accidental or poorly pressed condition occur which prevents the disc from launching, then what do you do? And the storage, locating, handling and loading of different game cds just has waned my already thin patience. So since I have committed to a download gaming lifestyle, I either must pass on DRM games, or accept certain types of protection. I had decided some time ago that I would purchase games which only require the one time internet activation code. This allowed me to play some of my favorites such as Out of the Park Baseball,Football Manager and Battlefront titles. I do not buy games from Steam, Impulse or their ilk.
Now, the argument that a company may go belly up and thwart your efforts to re-install a game is quite a legitimate point that cannot be ignored. However, if I am honest with myself, I realize that I lose interest in a game far sooner than the company loses financial solvency.
So, if this new Tiller title intrigues me enough to warrant a purchase using the serial number activation, then I'll take the plunge.
I want to thank everyone for a most spirited and relevant discussion.
It is slightly different - if my copy of (for example) System Shock 2 can't be re-installed from the original CD, then I can still find a new copy of the installation media - ebay frequently has installation media... and this will work as the DRM is a simple disc check (removed with the patch in any case IIRC). I can continue to use this software so long as I can find a usable image, and as long as my hardware can emulate a Win98/SVGA box or above.
A 'modern' DRM'd game which loses the activation server... you are out of luck unless you obtain a crack - the existence of which (if available) would make the whole activation hoo-ha an annoying irrelevance... and if it is as good as they claim, this allows someone to decide for you that (eg Bioshock 2) is the new best thing, and the older program is obsoleted/removed from the activation server - this might not be how it pans out, but a promise to continue support is only worth something when it is delivered - what might be possible in the future, particularly where big business is/can be involved... well, it might be that the marginal improvements in games 'core' begin to demand the forced obsolescence of older software - and this in turn forces the early obsoleting of hardware, as the new software that is all that might remain available won't function on older devices.
My favourite DRM scheme is actually that used by Esim for their Steelbeasts Pro/ProPE - a reusable multi-vendor/multi-license encryption device, and totally free distribution/installation of the software - which then requires exclusive 'sight' of any license to function - this can be a secondary license served by another user in a remote location, your own license on your local 'stick', it is possible to request additional licenses to eg host a Lan-meet, that are available for a specific time-period - which is making a 'cap-in-hand' request to the publisher - but not one that is to support the limited 'intention' to run the software, but to dramatically extend the flexibility of the software for both seller and user(s).
Eddy - if only I had the balls to stand by you I would...but I'm weak when it comes to my hobby. The shame of it is, I'm helping send it down the pan!
I'm not completely sure that anyone ought to feel it necessary to "stand by" Eddy, so much as to raise more substantive questions as to the value of that which Tiller is trying to sell us. Is it really just going to be one more knock-off, after another, and with no guarantee that the game actually belongs to buyers? There's stuff that's buried in the code of his games that's twenty years old. Seriously, take a look at the TS games. And I'm not fussing about the state of matters in the 1990's, but rather the perfectly-silly, 3-D isomorphic views that stillplague his work.
Purchase a non-fungible license for a Tiller game, rather than own it outright?
