Experimental map data file with stacking limits

Andrew Brown · Post by **Andrew Brown** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:24 am

Here is a map data file (pwhexe.dat) I have created, which has stacking limit data added to all land hexes (except the major off map bases) whether bases are present or not. This file is for testing purposes, designed to be used with the "stock" official AE map.

The stacking limits are tied to the terrain type, plus the existence of roads, railways and rivers (which all boost the stacking limit values).

Currently the limits are only visible in base mouseovers. Hopefully the code can be changed at some point to also show the values on the base screens (which still show "unlimited" for non-island bases) and the LCU summary window (for use in non-base hexes).

This is an experimental file. Its effect on the game are not well understood! Please feel free to experiment with this map data file. Any comments can be added here.

Be sure to make a backup copy of your existing pwhexe.dat file before making use of this one.

Andrew

SuluSea · Post by **SuluSea** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:40 pm

Hi Andrew thanks for all the work, you guys are really keeping this game fresh and deserve big props for it. [:)][:)][:)] I love the stacking limits idea BTW..

John 3rd · Post by **John 3rd** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:25 pm

Not too sure of that Footer SuluSea! [8D]

Andrew: Your work is greatly appreciated. If this works we will incorporate it into the RA and Perfect War Mods.

JeffroK · Post by **JeffroK** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:43 am

Hi Andrew,
I have downloaded the file, I got a message about using the new pwhex file but mouseovers show nothing (In an existing game)

is there any other hint to see that its working?

Andrew Brown · Post by **Andrew Brown** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:08 am

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Hi Andrew,
I have downloaded the file, I got a message about using the new pwhex file but mouseovers show nothing (In an existing game)

is there any other hint to see that its working?

It has to be used with the latest beta exe file. Are you using that?

Andrew

JeffroK · Post by **JeffroK** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:32 pm

That would be the problem[8D]
 
But I had that set up with the extended map, I'll set up another copy.
 
Thanks Andrew

inqistor · Post by **inqistor** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:28 am

COOL!

Are overstack penalties similar to islands?

It actually seems, that your numbers are too generous (assuming bases do not generate extra stacking bonus). Especially central Australia.
Kohima offensive was something around the lines, that Japan could supply only ONE Division by road, so I would say ANY rough/jungle/mountain/swamp terrain WITHOUT road should not be able to supply Division.

And considering Kokoda, any mountain/rough-jungle should not be able to support even Regiment, so like 5000 for this terrain.

SuluSea · Post by **SuluSea** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:02 pm

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Not too sure of that Footer SuluSea! [8D]

It's a work in progress John.[:)] No footers stay too long for me.[;)]

JeffroK · Post by **JeffroK** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:29 pm

Looking good a whole week into a new campaign.

Already looking at the numbers I have to defend locations in Malaya.

I think the major affect will be seen in late 42-43 when multiple divisions start to get together.

drw61 · Post by **drw61** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:09 pm

ORIGINAL: JeffK

That would be the problem[8D]

But I had that set up with the extended map, I'll set up another copy.

Thanks Andrew

Jeffk, if you want to use the extended map, there is a working version of the extended map data with staking limits at this site.

https://sites.google.com/site/extendeda ... ing-limits

Daryl

DaveConn · Post by **DaveConn** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:04 pm

I see stacking limits on the mouseover for a base or dot hex, but nothing to indicate stacking limits for a vacant hex. Is this WAD? Are there stacking limits for non-base, non-dot hexes? Any help appreciated; thanks!

--Dave

witpqs · Post by **witpqs** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:46 pm

From what I read earlier it is normal until and unless the program is updated to show them.

JWE · Post by **JWE** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:32 pm

ORIGINAL: DaveConn
I see stacking limits on the mouseover for a base or dot hex, but nothing to indicate stacking limits for a vacant hex. Is this WAD? Are there stacking limits for non-base, non-dot hexes? Any help appreciated; thanks!

--Dave

Yes it is WAD. One does not see anything on mouseovers of non-base hexes anyway.

It's still a work in process, so the current SL algorithm would be useless. Once the final values get defined, I'm sure somebody will post the matrix. Once you have that, a mouseover on a base will give you all ya need to know about everything else; and it doesn't change a whole lot.

khyberbill · Post by **khyberbill** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:51 pm

If this works we will incorporate it into the RA and Perfect War Mods.

That would be great. Keep control of those Chinese and Japanese Death Stars!

JeffroK · Post by **JeffroK** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:02 pm

In late Dec 41, still working without any probs, although I havent streched the stacking limits yet. Maybe PH will be under pressure soon.
Importantly nothing else seems broken by the change.
 
Question 1.  Is the stacking limit a total for the hex or for each side?
Question 2. I one side holds the hex and the base, does the competing side share the same limits or are they at the base stacking limit??

JWE · Post by **JWE** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:04 pm

ORIGINAL: JeffK
In late Dec 41, still working without any probs, although I havent streched the stacking limits yet. Maybe PH will be under pressure soon.
Importantly nothing else seems broken by the change.

Question 1. Is the stacking limit a total for the hex or for each side?
Question 2. I one side holds the hex and the base, does the competing side share the same limits or are they at the base stacking limit??

Very nice to get that input. Thank you.

The new SLs for a hex work just like the stacking limits for Island Size. They are a total for the hex.

There is no bonus for the hex including a base. A hex SL is a hex SL. The presence of a base in a hex provides an extrinsic benefit to the side holding the base, even if the hex is 'overstacked'. The primary effects of overstacking are increased fatigue, disruption and greatly increased supply consumption (for both sides). The owner of a base has access to any supply stockpiles at the base and has the ability to use the base as a supply reception point (from ships if base is a port; from planes if base is an airfield). The attacker must rely on the overland supply flow model, or continuous amphib resupply TFs.

[ed] quick note, there's a default routine that Michael put in place that ensures Very Small Islands have the nominal 6,000 troop SL, no matter what the algorithm says that hex type "should" have. So looking at certain hexes with Dave's new pwhexe editor can be a bit misleading. Always check the Island Size switch and if it's Very Small, the IS switch will control no matter what is in the SL field. Other (larger) Island Sizes don't go to default because the default values are darn close to the algorithm values so those are used instead.

witpqs · Post by **witpqs** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:47 pm

Quick note, guys: the island-size stacking limits have always been per side, not total for the hex. So when you say they work just like stacking limits for island size, I'm assuming that's what you mean, John?

JWE · Post by **JWE** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:43 pm

ORIGINAL: witpqs
Quick note, guys: the island-size stacking limits have always been per side, not total for the hex. So when you say they work just like stacking limits for island size, I'm assuming that's what you mean, John?

Yes. Don't have the latest source for this, but as far as I can determine, the nastiness algorithm is applied as a result of an SL check. It is the SL check routine that has been tweaked to accommodate the new SL values. Nastiness 'evaluation' and 'execution' works as it always has. There's just more opportunities to be nasty.

Not sure you are quite correct about island-size stacking limits being per side. Could be wrong, so will dig deeper. Obviously, that's a major determinant. We just made assumptions without checking. Clearly something that needs to be better understood. Thanks; good Q. Definitely get back to you with a hard answer.

Andrew Brown · Post by **Andrew Brown** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:43 pm

ORIGINAL: JWE
Yes. Don't have the latest source for this, but as far as I can determine, the nastiness algorithm is applied as a result of an SL check. It is the SL check routine that has been tweaked to accommodate the new SL values. Nastiness 'evaluation' and 'execution' works as it always has. There's just more opportunities to be nasty.

Not sure you are quite correct about island-size stacking limits being per side. Could be wrong, so will dig deeper. Obviously, that's a major determinant. We just made assumptions without checking. Clearly something that needs to be better understood. Thanks; good Q. Definitely get back to you with a hard answer.

From memory, the island size stacking limits are applied per side. But Michael can give a definitive answer. The new hex limits are applied using the same process, so should operate in the same way.

The way it is meant to work for island is - the smaller of the two stacking limits (island size vs the new per hex limits) is the one that will be applied.

Andrew

JeffroK · Post by **JeffroK** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:09 am

Thank Andrew
The presence of a base in a hex provides an extrinsic benefit to the side holding the base
This is what i meant to ask.

Experimental map data file with stacking limits

Experimental map data file with stacking limits

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