Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

[terje439]

Thank you guys for posting.
My take on the points raised;
-it is better to spend some CP to build fortified regions on the no Finnish attack line as this frees up units for the real front
-bombing cities. Well I suffered almost no losses, but I have no idea if I did any damage
-building units. True, however I need units now, not in 4-11 turns. The idea was to try to seriously delay the Germans on the riverline to gain precious time.
-Garrisoning cities. Yup, allready placing units in cities 2-3 turns away from the front just in case
-about factory moving. This is very useful info. Thank you very much [&o]

But why do I need the railroad construction units? I thought that was for when I started kicking the Germans back into Europe?

Any advice is carefully read and truely apreciated [&o]

Terje

[cpt flam]

RR units are your friend to dig
don't try to form a line with NKVD III as they will disband
not so bad or the time

[Aurelian]

The airborne units stacked 3 to a hex are good diggers.

IIRC, they can be made into Guards Rifles in 42 Don't lose the airborne units. IIRC they don't come back.

Guards Rifle Division (March 1942): Three Airborne Brigades can buildup into a rifle division,
which will automatically be given Guards status. Airborne brigades may not buildup with any
other type of unit.

You can just hold the No Attacck line wih Fortified Zones. But they are expensive in APs.

So maybe manning the line with weak units?

On general principles for SUs, get the biggest bang for the AP cost that you can. (Build a RR Constr Brigade instead of a Construction Batallion.)

tm.asp?m=2882717 for a list.

[terje439]

Ok thx guys. Just to be clear, when you say dig, you mean fortify? Or am I missing something here?

Terje

[terje439]

Turn 5

Overall
Bad goes to worse. There is not other way to describe this turn. In fact it turns so bad that a new defensive doctrine has to be used. It is also clear that Leningrad will fall sooner rather than later. Our airforce continues to be a non-factor. When ordered to bomb a unit, they send in the planes 1 by 1, doing no damage or being shot down.

Industry
Due to the threat to Leningrad, all our rail capacity this turn is used to extract factories from here. All that remains are the HI factories, some BT factories and a few KV1 factories. If the rail network is open next turn, the last of the industry here will be extracted, but that might be hoping for too much, we will see.

Units
Some new units arrive in the east, but we cannot get them west this turn due to the heavy use of our rails by the leningrad factories.

Worries
All over the place...
The north is more or less gone, and it now seems very likely that the USSR will not survive this ordeal. King Winter is still far away, and we are being forced back on almost every front.
Our 1CV units have nothing to say against the excellent defensive values of the Wehrmacht, so when they pierce a line we are unable to turn them back.
The defense around Leningrad is crumbling away, and I doubt it will stand for long. As you can see, the line defense is no longer an option, so a delaying defense is all we can do for now. We need more mountains, marshes and big rivers!

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: terje439

Ok thx guys. Just to be clear, when you say dig, you mean fortify? Or am I missing something here?

Terje

Units that don't move start raising the fort level of a hex. (Don't know how many equals how fast they do it. But I know German units are better at it.) They don't cost any APs to make, nor do you lose the men and such when you're pushed out as you do with a Fortified Zone.

[terje439]

Turn 6

Overall
In Norwegian there is a song which roughly translated goes something like "you shall have a day tomorrow with blank sheets and creyons too". This is such a day. The panzers ran out of fuel before reaching Leningrad, and we only lost a few troops this turn. A good turn indeed. Although we are still pushed back, and some more cities are lost this turn.
I did however make a mistake this turn, but that will have to stand. The enemy units in the south seem to be gaining their supply from one single RR, so I tried to move one of the units hiding in the Pripjet out to cut that rail, but I ran into a hiding SEC unit, so I guess that is a lost cause now. And before you ask, yes there were recons flown in the area 10 hexes in the immediate area was scouted but to no avail.


Industry
With the halted panzers off the doors of Leningrad, we are able to withdraw the last of our factories there, and we start to withdraw our factories in Dneproprtovsk, but we did not have the capacity to withdraw it all, so I will probably have to spell that name again for the next turn.

Units
With only few units lost, we actually saw an increase in number of units in the field this turn. Precious rail capacity is spent getting them from the east towards the front. I have now managed to get together 5 stacks of armor/mech with a cv value per stack in the ranges of 15-20. These troops are to be given first choice in women and vodka!

Worries
My airforce.
It simply is no good. Had this been any of the other GG games I've played, I would have gathered them all together and try to make one large number strike, but here they fly out 1-4 planes at a time and are chewed up. It also bodes bad that even the Me110 is able to inflict losses to my planes...

[terje439]

Turn 7

Overall
It seems we took those blank sheets from yesterday and coloured them all black.
The enemy is within Leningrad, and we have no choice but to let him have it, there simply are no forces available for the defence. Our defences all along the front are springing leaks. It makes me feel like the famous Dutch Boy...
Moscow is now threathened as well, and it seems it will fall. Hopefully we will be able to keep the city for a few more turns as that is how long we need to save the factories there, but I am not optimistic.
We try to force the enemy back across thee Dnepr in the south as they have made a beachhead on the east side. It failed miserably.

Industry
The factories in Dneproprtovsk have now all been moved. Next in line is Moscow.

Units
We gain as many divisions as we lose this turn, but that is not really a good exchange since those new units arrive in the east and need rail capacity to get to the front with haste.

Worries
Not enough CV anywhere, and even when we are given a superiority we end up losing the battles.
Another worry is the very succesful enemy interdiction attacks, and those are plentyful.
I am at a crossroads, I need some time to consider if I am to let Moscow fall and stop my reinforcements to the east of the city to forma new line, allowing my units time to dig in.

[terje439]

Turn 8

Overall
Well another good turn in that the German advance is down to a crawl. We also see our first offensive victory of the war. Alot of time and CPs are spent as we start to reorganize our armies. This is however something that will not be finished untill next turn. I find myself starting each turn by looking at the date figuring out how many turns I need to keep the enemy back untill mud and eventually winter sets in. We are still a long way from those marvelous times.

Industry
We moved all factories in Khimki, and we started to move factories in Western Moscow.

Troops
Only two divisions were lost this turn, so we gain 5 divisions in net total. These are good numbers. Alot of railroad construction units were formed, and time was spent handing out artillery and sappers to units in their alloted defensive positions. This does not include frontline units, but units digging in in various cities and in the approaches to Crimea.

Worries
Nothing really pops out, it seems a layered defense forcing the enemy from one ZoC to another works better in the north than a proper front. Hopefully I can manage to get some reserves down south as the entire Axis Southern Front is held by Rumanians. If this does not change, then that is where we will strike in winter.

[terje439]

Turn 9

Overall
The Germans crawl towards Moscow, but also threathen Bryansk and Tula. The reorganization of our armies are now almost complete, just a few more HQs that needs to be moved into position. Another successfull attak on German units across the Dnepr in the South, and our Invasion Force Hungary is finally defeated.

Industry
We finish moving the factories in Western Moscow, and we start to move factories from Bryansk.

Troops
A net gain of 9 divisions this turn, so our strength is growing.

Worries
It seems very likely that we are about to lose alot of factories unless we are extremely lucky. The main worry is that even if we hold out this turn, we still will not have enough rail capacity to empty Tula, Bryanks, the village NE of Bryansk and Moscow next turn, this is a 4-5 turn project atleast. The question then becomes what to salvage, unless someone says otherwise, the withdrawal order of my factories will be;
1. Factories producing specific units (like MiG3 etc), from my understanding I need to salvage 50%+ of these factories for there to be any point in moving any of them
2. Armamanets factories
3. Heavy Industry

[Q-Ball]

Quick comments on items I saw in the posts:

1. For PLANES and TANKS, you do NOT need to move 50% in order for it to be effective. If you move only 1 point, the factory will live. It will be out of production for quite awhile, but it will live. The more you move, though, the quicker it will be back online.

Don't bother with moving MIG-3s. They go out of production in December, the factories don't upgrade, they aren't that fantastic, and you have plenty of other fighters. Same goes for the Su-2 factory in Kharkov, the BA-10 factory in Leningrad. The T-50 in Leningrad eventually upgrades to T-34-42, so it's worth saving.

Make sure you move the IL-2 factories if Moscow or Voronezh is threatened. Hopefully you saved the KV factory from Leningrad. The T-34s in Kharkov need to be saved. If Moscow is threatened, move the LI-2 transports, and the Pe-2s.

2. DO NOT use NKVD regts as Aurelian suggested in post #20. They will disband eventually, allowing the Finns to cross the line. Doesn't matter anyway, it looks like you have lost Leningrad already, so they are active regardless

3. You should build a couple FORT ZONES in front of Moscow, and help your diggers there. Don't forget the approach from the North of Moscow

4. Good job along the Dnepr, if you are holding him T-9, that's pretty good there

[terje439]

Thanks Q-Ball.

About your posts;
1. The manual says that I need atleast 50% of the "named" factories? Ok since I know you have played this far more than me, I guess it is a case of me misunderstanding the manual. That i sgreat news though as it makes my job easier.
The MiG-3s were just an example, and seeing how they perform so far I'll agree to this hehe.
All the factories in Leningrad are safe, so we should eventually have KVs coming into the pool again, although it seems they perform less well in this game than irl, but guess that is due to game mechanics, and I can live with that.

2. Nah, I used fortified regions, but it does not really matter now as Leningrad is overrun. Should I disband those fortified regions if the enemy keeps pushing in the north or keep them to force him to attack.

3. Yes, that is something I did not consider. Will do!

4. I think that is more about him focusing on Leningrad and Moscow but anything, however the line will fall as I can only mount one counter-attack per turn that holds any chance of succeeding.

Anyhow I find that even losing a pbem is a very good way to get to learn the game, so I will keep fighting even if that in the end my reinforcements arriving in the east can march to the front in one turn [:D]

Terje

[terje439]

Turn 10

Overall
A neither good nor bad turn. The Dnepr line is forced on several places and we only manage to beat the enemy back on two locations. This means the entire southern front is in danger of collapsing.
We keep digging in, falling back, reforming and regrouping around Moscow. It must be frustrating to the Germans as they only make one or two hexes progress per turn. Our only non routed unit in the Prepjet is ordered to try to break out and head north-est in an attaempt to wreck havoc on Axis supply lines. Probability of success rated around 10%.

Industry
We moved all the armaments factories in Zaphorozhye, Bryansk and the village NE of Bryansk. We also moved the vehicle factories, the armaments factories and one IL-2 in Western Moscow. To top things off, we also managed to send out 3 U2-Vs and 3 T-40 factories from Moscow proper (only got to do so as these are cheap to move).

Troops
Our army saw one of the biggest growths ever this turn with a total net gain of 21 divisions and 2 brigades.

Worries
The moving of factories. Allready Heavy Industry factories are started to be captured by the Germans, and it seems alot more of them will follow. Also some of our armaments factories will fall to the invaders since they are located in towns the Germans are adjacant to, hence not allowing them to be rail transported.
The formation of armored killer stacks that are kept in the rear and only moves forwards seems to work well. Although the USSR armor divisions do not compare to their German counterparts, these stacks can makea big inpact where they arrive. However alot of the German units have an unadjusted defensive CV of 40+, these units are untouchable for the moment.

[terje439]

Turn 11

Overall
The turn is not too bad, as we end up gaining forces, and no major enemy breakthrough has occured. However the current turn sees a rise in lost AFVs. Contemplating making a amphipious assault on Rumania to force him to take the rear areas into account. The enemy does not seem to garrison any cities in the rear, atleast my recon flights show no garrison in any city.
We tried to bomb a few airfields, but the A2A loss ratio is appealing at best. 210 fighters and 88 bombers go in against 6 fighters and ground installments, losses 1:45 in his favour.

Industry
All armaments factories have been moved from Poltava, and from Moscow proper, we move out 7 vehicle factories, and one of each of the following;
Yak-7A, IL-2, IL-4, Pe-2, Pe-2r, IL-10, Pe-3, Pe-3.
The Pe-3 is mentioned twice since there are wo factories producing that aircraft, and both had one production unit moved.

Units
A net gain of 3 divisions and 4 brigades this turn, not alot, but something. All we need to do is keep the enemy advance to a crawl, and we should be able to survive into -42 atleast.

Worries
Nothing major, the same whining about factories, that goes without saying. Apart from that, I am unsure as to what to think about te Finnish attacks in the north. I am also getting a feeling that we might soon see the German Panzers revitalized, if o, things could get ugly quite rapidly.
Also, worried about maybe conducting an amph invasion from Sevastopol and into Rumania. Have to look at a few rules etc about that move.
Also, the losses for the current turn is a major headache/wonder/curiosity. How such numbers were lost when no pockets were eliminated, and most my lost battles were mere retreats is beyond me.

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball


2. DO NOT use NKVD regts as Aurelian suggested in post #20. They will disband eventually, allowing the Finns to cross the line. Doesn't matter anyway, it looks like you have lost Leningrad already, so they are active regardless

Yeah, I botched that one.

[terje439]

Turn 12

Overall
Well in the words of 1990 - "It's hammer time". Too bad it is not me doing the hammering. This turn sees a potential disaster far bigger than anything recieved so far. Not that the losses will be that bad, but my centre is being ripped apart, and is extremely exposed for the time being.

Industry
19 armaments factories are moved out of Tula, and 1 T34 factory is moved from Kharkov. I really wanted to wait to move the factory from Kharkov, but that would be a big gamble as things are unfolding too fast right now. Seems the enemy panzers found a gas station somewhere.

Units
Although our gain is substantial with 26 divsions and 24 brigades being formed versus a loss of only 4 regiments, that does not really help now. We need to march those guys from all over the map to the front as we use our rail to move factories. Also add the newly formed pocket in my centre, and things could be alot better.

Worries
A wide open centre is the biggest one, but also the fact that a flight of 250 bombers managed to kill of a mere 39 enemy troops is a concern (makes me miss even the Blenheims from WitP..). So is enemy interdictions. Without those we should have been able to reopen the pocket as the Wiking Division has been fractured into 3 brigades and is the unit(s) blocking my escape route. However by the time my forces got close to those smaller units(defensive values of 4-4-5), all their movement was spent due to those aerial ttacks.

[BletchleyGeek]

Wow, that's quite a disaster, indeed. What are your plans? I would be already falling back towards Kursk and Kharkov. The worst part, as you say, is that he's got the bulk of his armor just where you don't seem to have anything at all. Seeing the global situation map of two turns ago, it seems to me that you're overcommitted north of Moscow, more so when Leningrad is already in Axis hands. I'd try to keep the Valdai Hills - it's an excellent position - but you might need all the forces you can strip from there to seal the huge gap you have right in the middle of the front.

Good luck!

[terje439]

Thank you, well my plan...
I intend to try to slow him down at all possible defensive positions (rivers etc) and use to as big an extent as possible, the overlapping ZoCs.
However it is now a matter of a few turns before I MUST fall back, but every turn I manage to form a defense this far ahead allows me one more turn to save my factories.
It seems to me to be a damned if I do, damned if I don't situation.

And about the north, well the problem as I see it, is that if I fall back too much, that frees up alot of his forces as well, allowing him to put them to use on a narrower strip. Seing the relative CV of the Axis vs The USSR divisions, I NEED him stretched out.


Terje

[terje439]

Turn 13

Overall
We somehow managed to form another coherent line of defense, but we are running low on units to guard the areas immediately behind the front. This is something we will have to deal with for a few more turns untill our reinforcements are able to take their place on the line. Moscow is also most definitively doomed, as is made clear this turn, thankfully most of the factories have been railed away.
I am somewhat confused as to why the Axis are not garrisoning his rear area cities to prevent the formation of partisan units. He still uses his SEC units as frontline forces. This is actually a good thing as they have such a low CV that I can effectively force these units back, and on occation force him to spend time to relocate his forces.
Had my units been somewhat braver, I could allready have made him pay for this, but it is to no avail as long as my units fear going more than one hex into Axis territory.
On the positive side. If my lone gunman division in the enemy rear is not attacked in the next two turns, I WILL break the enemy rail lines north of Pripjet!

Industry
We moved 1xMiG-3 from Northern Moscow (I know this is a poor fighter, but if possible we do not want the enemy to gain any more factories from us than absolutely needed for morale purposes (mine IRL[;)])). From Moscow proper we manage to move out 1xMiG-3, 3xVehicle, 9xArmaments and 4xHI. This means that only 5HI remains in all of Moscow. I am quite sure this is less than hoped/wished for by the Axis. I doubt I will get those out though as Moscow is estimated to fall during the next Axis impulse (but we never know).

Units
A net loss this turn.
19 divisions arrive vs 32 lost in the pocket
4 brigades form vs 9 lost in the pocket
2 regiments lost in the pocket

This being said, we have alot of units running across the Soviet Steppes to take up positions on the line. Some arrived this turn, some next turn, and some will require yet another turn.

Worries
The constant need to use my rails to move factories is hampering the rapid relocation of my forces. I need a turn where no factories are threathened so that I can move alot of forces. if the enemy fixates on Moscow, this might very well be the case next turn.
The Dnepr line is starting to falter, and I do not know how long I can make it hold, but every turn is valuable.

It seems I am not the only one to worry about our airforce, as a message from Stalin read;
"Southwestern Air Command commander Evgeny Ptukhin is arrested and executed"

[Flaviusx]

The MiG-3 factories go away at the end of the year, btw. They have no upgrade path. No point in moving them. Ditto the Su-2s in Karkhov. Ditto the BA-10s in Leningrad.