new tos (flaming welcome)

whitefirefox · Post by **whitefirefox** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 12:47 am

well here it is my latest (and probably another titan that'll probably be frowned upon at the least a little)

Titan Name: <Consequence> (Light Close Combat Titan)
Chassis: Morola L1
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 69.6t (70t maximum) Height : 9 [meter]
Bmt : 22 (54 kph) Reduce Heat: -2.2C/sec.
No Jump-Ports Cost : 136778 ($)

Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine :Morola M1 [Engine 1] [CT ]
Heatreg.:Delinit H4 [Heat 4]
LifeSup.:B.M.I. [Life 3] [Head]
Scanner :CyberSys L [Scan 3] [CBT ]
Computer:CyberSys [Comp. 2] [Head]

Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/SL

[LA ] POWER AXE
[RA ] POWER AXE
[RA ] MACHINE GUN (040) [1]
[LA ] MACHINE GUN (040) [1]
[RT ] S.R.M. 8 RACK (032) [2]
[LT ] S.R.M. 8 RACK (032) [2]

Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Points/mm

[Head] (11) Dullaroy 016 [024mm]
[RT ] (17) Dullaroy 032 [046mm]
[CT ] (19) Dullaroy 043 [062mm]
[CBT ] (11) Dullaroy 041 [059mm]
[LT ] (17) Dullaroy 032 [046mm]
[RA ] (17) Dullaroy 032 [046mm]
[LA ] (17) Dullaroy 032 [046mm]
[LowT] (11) Dullaroy 043 [062mm]
[RL ] (15) Dullaroy 034 [049mm]
[LL ] (15) Dullaroy 034 [049mm]

Armorindex: 7.02 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 150 [APts]
External: 339 [APts] Max:[062mm]
Total Armor: 489 [APts]

JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: skill on Light Titan
Weapons : N.G.M Cannon C.C.
Warfare : Scanner
Skills : Ind.Fire

well here it is i got tired of having to waste time (and a good few points of amor) just trying to get close enough to use the meelee so i went and make a titan with a sorta 3 range effect

first comes to S.R.M.s followed by the mgs and then the power axes

using this i figure that damage can be done from a medium distance and adds onto itself as you get closer ( my meaning is that you get the S.R.M.s added with the mg and power axes)

kinda overheats a bit quick if you use everything at its max speed but this can be simply dealt with by not using the missles once your in mg range

P.S. and this is as far as im going to make my things clear its not one big sentence but im feeling lazy with punctuation

feel free to flame me and my machine if you find it too hard to restrain yourself

TitanFodder · Post by **TitanFodder** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 6:07 am

It's well armored and deady i'm sure,but it requires too many skills IMO. Id get rid of the missiles,cos then there's no need for U.M. skill, and no need for scanners or b.comps. Instead i'd go for a shield(needs a high defensive skill to be usefull) and chainsaws or axes if i cant fit saws. Of course this is only my opinion and i just "love" getting blown-up by sawed titans. :p

Another thing:

Why use the L1 chassis and not L4? Either way it's fast enough.
Isn't it?

whitefirefox · Post by **whitefirefox** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 6:23 am

the point of this titan is to be able to hit sooner

if you look at its weapons they're all different ranges but over lap in range areas

example: your at medium range vs another close combat titan

your opponent has (at least what i believe) basic stuff such as a mg and chainsaws

you've got missles mgs and power axes
its true power axes aren't as good as chainsaws but they have less heat weight and take up less slots which is whats needed quite often by this tos

now you hit your enemy first having missles so he may take a good 6-12 all around damage that softens him up and if your really lucky makes him trip

next comes the machine guns by this point your very close
but you still havea slight advantage you can luanch a volley of missles for another 6 or so damage per hit

by this point the enemy may have had a good 18-24 armor knocked off him and you get mabey 10-12 armor knocked off

now when you get to meelee combat your have a dis-advantage at raw damage but an advantage of slight heat and extra damage

basically you have machine guns blazing axes swinging like a normal meelee titan but also missles firing right in the guys face

now for why its named the "Consequence" the pilot has to face the consequences of using it. its that simple you have to divi up between 3 skills but once you get past that it should (not guarenteed) be at least somewhat more effective than some other close combat titans

of course heat does become an issue if you just keep doing alpha shots every time the missles reload but hey you can just stop using the missles for awhile or what not

ah well thats it for my explanation and by this time im guessing none of the other guys are gonna make any kind of reply and probably want me to face a horrible agonizing death at the hands of hetz

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 1:43 am

Originally posted by TitanFodder
It's well armored and deady i'm sure,but it requires too many skills IMO. Id get rid of the missiles,cos then there's no need for U.M. skill, and no need for scanners or b.comps. Instead i'd go for a shield(needs a high defensive skill to be usefull) and chainsaws or axes if i cant fit saws. Of course this is only my opinion and i just "love" getting blown-up by sawed titans. :p

Another thing:

Why use the L1 chassis and not L4? Either way it's fast enough.
Isn't it?

Scanners and battle computers are *always* needed. They're not mandatory, but they are surely useful. No scanner means reduce sight to 15 hexes, no active scans and therefore no called shots, no ID on the target outside point blank, no scanner links, no spotting for indirect fire. No BC means much longer lock time (and lock switching), 25% penalty to hit with the SRMs *and* the MGs (and no threat level display, which is of no consequence here since it doesn't have an ECM anyway).
Shield? If heat is already a problem, I don't see how that will be of any good. And shields don't need a good defensive skill, it just helps some.
The PX/CS dillema is an old one. PX better at calling shots, CS at raw damage. PX actually generates slightly more heat (+1C).
Chassis, well, another old dillema. L4 is faster, but heavier and more unstable.

TitanFodder · Post by **TitanFodder** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 7:59 am

Good point about scanners and b.c.s
So MG dont work untill you're up-close and personal,true! Face to face they work fine. But 15 sec. is a long time to wait in close fight. Too long! That would be a good reason to use a b.c. but a scanner? Who needs it on a CC titan? IF you can grind your enemy down fast AND if you have a mid-range titan with 1st class scanner/b.c.(and a pilot who can hit at least the broad side of a barn) as a backup you wont miss the scanner.(on the CC titan only)

I 'THINK' a defense skill of 60% bounces off more shots, and it helps a little with heat reduction. But the most usefull thing about having shields is that you dont have to run when your cover starts burning. Your opponent, on the other hand might give you a break and try to run. The price is heat and a better engine.

Like whitefirefox said,the idea behind his titan was to hit sooner,and keep hitting as you get close. I have a different strategy of two titans working together. One with mucho armor,shield and PA/CS+MG that gets close, and one with a PG or GC + a PA just in case and of course a scanner and b.c. that drags behind making life easier for the CC titan. This usually works well for the mid-range titan cos my CC titans allways lie down with LO torsos disabled and ripped legs by the end of the fight.

A nice thing about ToS is that it's sooo balanced,and no strategy is perfect. Or even same in two battles.

PrinceCorrin · Post by **PrinceCorrin** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 11:18 am

I have to go with Iceman. You might not think a scanner is necessary, but that extra % to hit from a green scan is really helpful.
And calling shots with PXs is SOOOOOOOOO effective. Trust me on this. I love PXs.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 4:00 pm

I knew you'd say that PC. I was thinking about you when I wrote that

TF, only 3 components are mandatory, all others are optional. But they do help a lot. Being able to id your target, and its current status, is worth it.

A defensive skill of 60% gives you 6% extra defense. Your defensive skill is divided by 10 and added to the protection factor of the shield. Shields do not negate heat from burning forests, they reduce it. And since they generate heat on their own, it's not *that* much of a difference. Especially in v1.4, which was somewhat buggy in that aspect IIRC. And don't forget that when your shield is hit, your heat is raised.

TitanFodder · Post by **TitanFodder** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 8:17 pm

DUH! I must be a bigger moron than i thought

I DID in fact include the weakest b.c. on that CC titan of mine. I read that the penalties for not using b.c.s were huge so i put one just to cancel them out.

Like i said i skiped the scanner on the CC bot only! I do realise the need for scanners. The extra % is great,and knowing there's a titan packing a NB out there before he whips you with it is also important.:p If i can take the advantage of double-teaming against an enemy,i'd use it and call shots as well as see what kind of damage i'm doing with the non-CC titan's active scans.
I like to find a spot on high ground,scan the enemies and take out the nastiest one from long range. Should some enemies attempt to come in and kick my *** the CCs would be there to stop them. With the enemies mean guns out or down, it's a game of mop-up the opposition and survive an explosion or two.

I had a game just like this a yesterday playing in hell. I was lucky i caught one heavy titan jumping over a lava stream. Having previously scanned it i jumped out of my cover and got one lucky shot with a Black Ray. The titan fell down,couldn't get up,got cooked and blew up damaging nearby recon/lights enemies. Without the scanner that shot would be just a dream. Another medium got across and came very close only to get sawed with the occasional BR just to keep it down. See that's teamwork! And cowardice cos i was hiding behind hills and waiting for the enemy:D

Back to shields. I use the smallest type. Main reason is that it generates less heat and demands less power and is effective enough(just barely). It protects from flames a long long time and makes one hell of a difference in a CC fight. When you dont run but your opponent does, you get more time and a big grin:D You could actually fend off two opponents that would have you for breakfast if only the fire didn't make them run in get a shot or two and run out again.

Here's my CC machine, with and option af less armor on the LowT but anothher MG instead. Blah blah,i could go on forever wit variations.

Titan Name: <Kickboxer-C1000> (Light Close Combat Titan)
Chassis: Morola L3
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 68.6t (70t maximum) Height : 10 [meter]
Bmt : 20 (60 kph) Reduce Heat: -2.6C/sec.
No Jump-Ports Cost : 130988 ($)

Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine :CyberSys [Engine 3] [CT ]
Heatreg.:Smac Corp. [Heat 5]
Shield :Simson-Light [Shld1] [CBT ]
LifeSup.:Livotto [Life 1] [CT ]
Computer:Baravia [Comp. 1] [Head]

Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/SL

[RA ] CHAIN SAW
[LA ] CHAIN SAW
[RT ] MACHINE GUN (040) [1]
[LT ] MACHINE GUN (040) [1]
[LowT] MACHINE GUN (040) [1]
[RA ] MACHINE GUN (040) [1]
[LA ] MACHINE GUN (040) [1]

Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Points/mm

[Head] (11) Dullaroy 018 [026mm]
[RT ] (17) Vicenium 036 [060mm]
[CT ] (21) Dullaroy 041 [059mm]
[CBT ] (11) Dullaroy 020 [029mm]
[LT ] (17) Vicenium 036 [060mm]
[RA ] (19) Vicenium 027 [045mm]
[LA ] (19) Vicenium 027 [045mm]
[LowT] (13) Dullaroy 026 [038mm]
[RL ] (17) Vicenium 040 [068mm]
[LL ] (17) Vicenium 040 [068mm]

Armorindex: 6.76 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 162 [APts]
External: 311 [APts] Max:[068mm]
Total Armor: 473 [APts]

JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: skill on Light Titan
Weapons : Cannon C.C.
Warfare : Defensives
Skills : Medical

Please note that i do not regard this as a titan on its own, rather as an extension of my bigger e.weapons/cannons/scanners/allthedoodads titan. An extension that knows where to go, what to fight,and where NOT to go. It would be useless on it's own without the backup and guidance of allied titans. But it's a team game afterall.

Lobsteve · Post by **Lobsteve** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 8:36 pm

I may have counted wrong, but do you really need that big an engine in it? If you don't you'd probably be better off downsizing it and then swapping the locations of the life support and computer and then getting a better computer. Or adding a scanner. Or replacing the shield with a scanner. Given the choice I'd take scanner over shield 9 times out of 10 and the 10th I'm playing against a laser titan on polar.

Unless this Titan is meant for Hell almost exclusively I'd cut back on the heat Reg as well. Then you could do all sorts of things with the extra space in the legs etc. One thing would be to move the MGs from the arms to the legs so you can beef up the armour. I'd also ditch the LoT MG for armour. It's not like you need the firepower with those CSs. And 4 MGs will recycle quick enough to give you an excellent punch close in with called shots if you add the scanner.

Though, as you say, it's a team game. But if you can make it survive longer in close your helping out the rest of the team I suppose. Either way I guess. lah-dee-dah. Right.

Lobsteve.

Edited in note: This post is referring to TitanFodder's design.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 9:24 pm

Scanners are not only used to id targets. Knowing terrain is also important - specifically terrain height. You might just find yourself facing impassable terrain because you forgot to check height difference against your max climb rate. Will you call attack/move on your other titan to check it?
And to down opponents from long range, scanner links are a must. You need a scanner for that

This is a team game, yes, but you can't always count on your team mates.

BTW, you still have 1.4 tons free, it's more than enough to improve the BC and/or the LS.

Lobsteve, he'll never free up space in the legs. Those are the first slots to be occupied by the reg, and therefore they are always used. The only way to improve armor in the arms is using Titanium. Don't know if 1.4 tons is enough though.

One important thing to keep in mind, try to keep as many of your weapons as you can in the arms and head (no ammo weapons in the head though!). That way, if you go down, you can still fire them.

whitefirefox · Post by **whitefirefox** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 11:00 pm

i made the consequence for more of 1 on 1 battles vs the ai really

so i got the idea of making one that can take the enemy on from most ranges and well here it is

can any of you guys see any kind of problems that might occur with the armor/systems/weapons besides heat?

EDIT: also the reasoning behind the L1 chassis is simple i prefer less weight on my titans to begin with, so i sacrifice some slots i can make due with that, that and its cheaper than the other chassis

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 12:43 am

Originally posted by whitefirefox
EDIT: also the reasoning behind the L1 chassis is simple i prefer less weight on my titans to begin with, so i sacrifice some slots i can make due with that, that and its cheaper than the other chassis

??!! Is this supposed to mean something? Your titan weighs 69.6 tons, so you haven't achieved any speed improvements by it being underweight.
By using an L1 you're not only sacrificing slots, you're sac'ing internal structure too (they're related by a formula), as well as speed and height. I'm not saying one is better than the other, I'm saying each chassis has its advantages and disadvantages (like everything else in ToS).
SRM8s are fine, their reload time almost fits the movement profile of the titan, you just can't call shots with them

You probably don't need 2 slots of ammo.

Lobsteve · Post by **Lobsteve** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 1:27 am

My previous post was in regards TitanFodder's design. I haven't had a good look at WFF's. Maybe once I shoot up Hetzer a bit.

Lobsteve

TitanFodder · Post by **TitanFodder** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 7:24 am

Oh dear a LOT of replies:)

Yes the engine has to be so big,i tried using smaller ones and the shields would go down every time i ran

I also used shittier h.regs and improved them later. I'm happy with everything.

Yes i do use the other titan to check out terrain height,how did you guess?:p Though i do that early enough to avoid getting stuck.

I hope noone thinks that i think i reinvented the wheel, i just thought to use light titans for armor and melle weapons only and medium/heavy titans for precision firing. They have enough space for the fancy electronics. But that's not the only reason. You need the jock and his scanner skill to go along with the scanner. I didn't have one and i usualy modify the titan to fit my jock. So blame him not me!!

Thanx for the advice everyone it's much apreciate...now how da ya spell that?!

Lobsteve · Post by **Lobsteve** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 8:26 am

*large shrug*

TitanFodder: Maybe one last suggestion though. Maybe change from MGs to something that packs more of a punch. Without called shots you would probably be better off going for the big punch rather than hoping you get lucky with the MGs and the death of a thousand cuts or whatever.

WFF: The only suggestion I've really got is to change the SRMs to AC4s or something similar. Just to ease up on the number of skills needed. One of those common complaints I guess.

And now for some spurious flaming, as invited by the thread's title:

You all look like cabbage. Never mind the octopus tentacles.

Lobsteve.

PrinceCorrin · Post by **PrinceCorrin** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 1:32 pm

CC titans with less than 20 mms of armor in CT, LT, or RT will die in the time it takes my power axes to call shots there

Because I have scanner

If you only knew the power of the Dark Side. Join with me. Together we can rule the galaxy.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 6:50 pm

Originally posted by TitanFodder
Yes the engine has to be so big,i tried using smaller ones and the shields would go down every time i ran I also used shittier h.regs and improved them later. I'm happy with everything.

Yes i do use the other titan to check out terrain height,how did you guess?:p Though i do that early enough to avoid getting stuck.

I hope noone thinks that i think i reinvented the wheel, i just thought to use light titans for armor and melle weapons only and medium/heavy titans for precision firing. They have enough space for the fancy electronics. But that's not the only reason. You need the jock and his scanner skill to go along with the scanner. I didn't have one and i usualy modify the titan to fit my jock. So blame him not me!!

??!! That's not really possible. PU count is 3 for movement, 1 for heat reg, 1 for shield. That's 5, engine 1 is enough. If you want to swivel during movement, engine 2. You do not need to recycle jump ports, and unless you're planning to hit and run, CC and HtH weapons will recycle with movement PUs. Since you have no scanner, no additional PUs are required.
So, unless you have your engine damaged, there's no reason for your shield to go off.

I didn't guess, there's no other way

We could go on forever with this, but not this time. You'll have to find out for yourself.

Wasn't it you who developed the jock?!
I don't remove the flares and shield from my titans just because I chose not to develop defensives skill...

To close the issue, active scans are one of the best ways to get OXPs.

TitanFodder · Post by **TitanFodder** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 7:21 pm

Well you look like a pumpkin yourself.. :p

Maybe someone,somewhere,somehow,someday will teach me a lesson aboot ToS warfare. Untill then...

Lobsteve · Post by **Lobsteve** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 11:04 pm

Unfortunately there's only one way to do that. And it involves Hetzer being smug. Yes, smug. It's very frightening. Though, actually, you probably learn more from the smugness (ie. whenever he makes a smug comment you know you've done something wrong!) than actually having your titan picked apart piece by piece.

Lobsteve

TitanFodder · Post by **TitanFodder** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 12:24 am

To close the issue, active scans are one of the best ways to get OXPs.

Absolutely correct!! I was just going to post this but ya beat me to it.