Tank production bug??????

[Jajusha]

ORIGINAL: Pelton

The problem looks to be less about % repaired ect and more to do with a production issue

The % of junked tanks is kinda high, but this issue can be tweaked easly.

The main issue is the total lack of afvs being produced. Again I am not moving anything other then railing in a few new units. We have had no combat in 6 or 7 turns and I have not moved a thing in 4 turns and my afv number are static for 4 turns. Even if things were being produced as they should be its lower then historical by any account.

Whats up with the huge number of half tracks sitting in the pool?

Pelton

Lack of afvs being produced? I see plenty Stug, Panzer II, III and IV beeing produced.

What you are seeing in the OOB is panzer divisions TOE switching from a 170 Panzer TOE to a 136 Panzer TOE. Ergo, the lower or non increasing numbers.

[DTurtle]

The number of halftracks in the pool has to be a bug of some kind. Germany starts with only 40 or so of them, and produces only 3 a turn. So, unless you've received 2000 of them with new units that were subsequently thrown into the pool for some reason, you shouldn't have that many.

As for tanks being produced: Why don't you simply look at the production screen, look at the number of tanks that should be produced, and compare the number of tanks built between one turn and the next.

You seem to think for some weird reason that the Germans produced three thousand tanks within a couple of weeks/months, when several people here have pointed out that the stark increase of operational tanks was due to other factors.

[gingerbread]

The amount of SdKfz-222 is simply of the track. Is every repaired tank reborn as an Armoured Car?

Pelton: I suggest you check back in the old saves to see when this started and send a zip to Pavel.

BTW, the '42 scenario starts with 545 Panzer IIIm, even though they don't enter production until July. I suppose that this could represent older models that has been refurbished, but this is not seen in the above T51 (of the '41 campaign) screen shot.

[gingerbread]

Another thing: The screen shots shows production filtered to Germany, but e.g. the Panzer 38(t)E is Czech made so they show up when All areas are shown. The 81 shown as built above could very well be repaired units.

[Peltonx]

turn----total afv-----shop------permanent loses
47-----1907---------42--------- ?
48-----1880---------139------- ?
49-----1994---------84--------- 12
50-----2028---------68--------- 5
51-----2276---------61----------8
52-----2361---------67----------8

51------------Cap------Pool------Build
SK-222 -------3---------1911------118
PZ II----------5----------12--------216
PZ IIIj--------21---------6--------- 436
PZ IIIL--------22---------6----------802


52------------Cap------Pool------Build----- under cap or over cap
SK-222 -------3---------1909------120----------_-1
PZ II----------5----------12--------222----------_ +1
PZ IIIj--------21---------5--------- 452---------_ -5
PZ IIIL--------22---------6----------818--------_ -6

I have no idea whats screwed up with the Half Tracks

1. I should be making 43 total PZ III's and only 32 were build or - 11 or -572 for the year.
2. The tank pools seem logical.
3. The HT pool is way way way off. Why are so many stuck in the pool? Why did only 2 get made and why did the pool drop by 2?
4. Just checked Stug's and they are also short -4 this turn or - 212 for the yr.

I know more data is needed I have 2 or 3 more turns to collect data.

Historically 57 PZ-III's of all kinds were build per week during 42.

The TOE things does not account for not enough units being built per turn. I have loads of arm pts and manpower.

[Peltonx]

2

[Peltonx]

3

[Peltonx]

4

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Jajusha

ORIGINAL: Pelton

The problem looks to be less about % repaired ect and more to do with a production issue

The % of junked tanks is kinda high, but this issue can be tweaked easly.

The main issue is the total lack of afvs being produced. Again I am not moving anything other then railing in a few new units. We have had no combat in 6 or 7 turns and I have not moved a thing in 4 turns and my afv number are static for 4 turns. Even if things were being produced as they should be its lower then historical by any account.

Whats up with the huge number of half tracks sitting in the pool?

Pelton

Lack of afvs being produced? I see plenty Stug, Panzer II, III and IV beeing produced.

What you are seeing in the OOB is panzer divisions TOE switching from a 170 Panzer TOE to a 136 Panzer TOE. Ergo, the lower or non increasing numbers.

I did check the numbers and they are off so plenty are not being prodused.

The PZ III are short 11 tanks in one turn, which would be - 572 for the year. I know to Russians thats a drop in the bucket, but to Germans thats a allot of missing tanks.

Stug's are also short 4 per turn.

For sure more data is needed, I get 2 more turns before fighting has to start.

The TOE things does not account for not enough units being built per turn. I have loads of arm pts and manpower.

Pelton

[76mm]

Klydon's post about panzer maintainance is interesting enough, but I don't see how that or the change in PD ToE really addresses the question of why overall tank numbers do not seem as if they will match historical figures by the beginning of the 1942 campaign?

And what half-tracks are people talking about? AFAIK the 222s are armored cars, not half-tracks...

[randallw]

Pavel hasn't shown up in this thread....he may have run away and hid from this one. [:D]

[Peltonx]

Sorry man AC, which is more of a hit then HT's.

Also I am sure Pavel is busy on new projects and this one might be on back burner until December. I know they wanted to they stated no major changes until Dec ish.

but this might change that.

[Peltonx]

turn----total afv-----shop------permanent loses
47-----1907---------42--------- ?
48-----1880---------139------- ?
49-----1994---------84--------- 12
50-----2028---------68--------- 5
51-----2276---------61----------8
52-----2361---------67----------8
53-----2462---------63----------8

51------------Cap------Pool------Build
SK-222 -------3---------1911------118
PZ II----------5----------12--------216
PZ IIIj--------21---------6--------- 436
PZ IIIL--------22---------6----------802


52------------Cap------Pool------Build----- under cap or over cap
SK-222 -------3---------1909------120----------_-1
PZ II----------5----------12--------222----------_ +1
PZ IIIj--------21---------5--------- 452---------_ -5
PZ IIIL--------22---------6----------818--------_ -6
Stug-----------18---------40---------193-------_-4
PZIIIn---------11---------8----------16---------_


53------------Cap------Pool------Build----- under cap or over cap
SK-222 -------3---------1912------123----------_ ? 1912 still stuck in pool
PZ II----------5----------12--------224----------_ -3
PZ IIIj--------21---------4--------- 468---------_ -5
PZ IIIL--------22---------8----------834--------_ -6
Stug-----------18---------40---------207-------_-7
PZIIIn---------11---------9----------24---------_ -3

I have no idea whats screwed up with the Armor cars.
1. I should be making 54 total PZ III's and only 40 were build or - 14 or -728 for the year. Same trend as last turn, added PZIIIn
2. The tank pools seem logical, Stug pool seems stuck like AC pool.
3. The AC pool is way way way off, not sure how so many got stuck in pool. Might be a logical explaination for this.
4. Just checked Stug's and they are also short -4 this turn or - 212 for the yr. Same as last turn.

Now we have 2 turns and its same trend.

Historically 57 PZ-III's of all kinds were build per week during 42 so over all is kinda on, but production of PZ-IIIn started late in yr so total for yr would be a little short, but no biggy.

The TOE things does not account for not enough units being built per turn. I have loads of arm pts and manpower.

[Peltonx]

2

[Peltonx]

3

[Peltonx]

4

[Peltonx]

Is anyone else seeing this in there current 1.05 games?

Make sure you have arm and manpower in pool first.

Pelton

[DTurtle]

The reason you are seeing less AFVs produced than the capacity, is that a certain percentage of it is deducted as production moved to other fronts. In 1942, you only receive 80% of all production, reinforcements, etc.

Probably, the reason that some vehicles - especially the SdKfz 222 - are staying in the pool, is that units aren't requesting them, as they do not need to them to fill up their TOE, as the 222 simply isn't in the TOE of a lot of units, and gets replaced by newer equipment in early 1942. And once again, it has to be a bug that you have 1900 available in the pool. The 222 is barely present in any TOEs, and only very few of them get produced or arrive in new units.

The only AFV - besides the 222 - that you have in numbers in the pool is the Stug-IIIb. Considering that it is no longer being produced, and that there is a newer version available, I'm guessing that it is also not requested in the numbers you have available.

Maybe you could show a screenshot of the %TOE of your armored units. It should be quite obvious if the problem is one of TOE not being filled by production or if its simply that the units are already quite filled and are not requesting many more AFVs to be sent to them.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: DTurtle

The reason you are seeing less AFVs produced than the capacity, is that a certain percentage of it is deducted as production moved to other fronts. In 1942, you only receive 80% of all production, reinforcements, etc.

Probably, the reason that some vehicles - especially the SdKfz 222 - are staying in the pool, is that units aren't requesting them, as they do not need to them to fill up their TOE, as the 222 simply isn't in the TOE of a lot of units, and gets replaced by newer equipment in early 1942. And once again, it has to be a bug that you have 1900 available in the pool. The 222 is barely present in any TOEs, and only very few of them get produced or arrive in new units.

The only AFV - besides the 222 - that you have in numbers in the pool is the Stug-IIIb. Considering that it is no longer being produced, and that there is a newer version available, I'm guessing that it is also not requested in the numbers you have available.

Maybe you could show a screenshot of the %TOE of your armored units. It should be quite obvious if the problem is one of TOE not being filled by production or if its simply that the units are already quite filled and are not requesting many more AFVs to be sent to them.

1.As far as % goes I never heard that one.

2.As far as SdKfz-222 goes the game pool starts with 0, so as more then one person other then myself has questioned, where to hell did all the AC come from? That is a bug end of story. Only 3 get made a turn so ther should have only been 150 build.
Again is doesn't seem like much, but how many armerment pts have been wasted on 1760 AC that will never see service?
Those armerment points could have been used to out fit rifle squads?

3. I have allot of armored units in need of everything, its 42 after the blizzard.

Pelton

[DTurtle]

ORIGINAL: Pelton

1.As far as % goes I never heard that one.

Its right there in your screenshots of the production screen - the 80% next to Germany. Also section 21.4 in the manual.

2.As far as SdKfz-222 goes the game pool starts with 0, so as more then one person other then myself has questioned, where to hell did all the AC come from? That is a bug end of story. Only 3 get made a turn so ther should have only been 150 build.
Again is doesn't seem like much, but how many armerment pts have been wasted on 1760 AC that will never see service?
Those armerment points could have been used to out fit rifle squads?

Obviously the 1900 is a bug. The question is where they came from. If you have the saved games, you could look back. Since they can't have been created through the normal production system, it is in no way clear if they had any effect on armament points, as they might have simply been created out of nothing. Other people will have to keep an eye out and see if they find similar anomalous numbers of armored cars appearing.

3. I have allot of armored units in need of everything, its 42 after the blizzard.

Well, one thing is clear: The production numbers add up, and your pools are mostly empty. I'm assuming that production numbers are based on historical numbers, so the problem would most probably be in the number of tanks being written off.

Now, there are a number of ways of dealing with that situation, but once again I would point something out: Comparing the current situation in game with the historical numbers, the problem is too many tanks being operational most of the time, with the number of tanks only recovering after prolonged rests and refits. Any change that would result in more tanks being recovered would have to be coupled with a way to control the flow of tanks to the front line units - and make attrition losses even higher.

Your total tank strength is only a few hundred tanks below historical at this point. That is somewhat significant. However, you seem to be concentrating solely on the speed of the recovery in the number of operational tanks. The difference is, that your tanks numbers never dropped as far as the historical number did. So there are a lot less disabled tanks to repair and return to the front.