1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids)

[Peltonx]

I think it is still very useful and the team can still learn allot from it.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Pelton
...but still if 76mm would start attacking all along the front
he can break Katza in 20 turns.

You realize I'd be attacking at something like 1:4 odds in most cases? I wish that would work but somehow I don't think so...

[Encircled]

Pelton

Play the Russians

[Tarhunnas]

Turn 135. January 13 1944. Blizzard.

Things are looking desperate on the front east of Belgorod. German combat values are abysmal. It seems the fate of the German army to melt away, the main difference is when and where. Map before Axis moves.

[Q-Ball]

With not a fort to be seen in that shot, and no defensive barriers whatsoever other than a couple cities, I think it's time to make a run for the Dnepr. I would set units to REFIT, and get moving WEST.

You have territory to burn right now, you may as well burn it.

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

With not a fort to be seen in that shot, and no defensive barriers whatsoever other than a couple cities, I think it's time to make a run for the Dnepr. I would set units to REFIT, and get moving WEST.

You have territory to burn right now, you may as well burn it.

There is one level 1 fort in the lower part.... [;)].
Probably a good idea to withdraw. I do have a long fortified line north of Moscow though, and withdrawing would unhinge that too.

[Tarhunnas]

The front in the north. Not much happening here. Most units are now on static to reduce attrition.

[Flaviusx]

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

With not a fort to be seen in that shot, and no defensive barriers whatsoever other than a couple cities, I think it's time to make a run for the Dnepr. I would set units to REFIT, and get moving WEST.

You have territory to burn right now, you may as well burn it.

There is one level 1 fort in the lower part.... [;)].
Probably a good idea to withdraw. I do have a long fortified line north of Moscow though, and withdrawing would unhinge that too.

Moscow is irrelevant.

The only thing you need to worry about is beating the clock. If you end this thing anywhere near the prewar border, you're good to go. That's a win. And I'm still doubting the Germans can get to Berlin in time. Don't expend the Wehrmacht hundreds of miles east of where you need to be to win.

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

With not a fort to be seen in that shot, and no defensive barriers whatsoever other than a couple cities, I think it's time to make a run for the Dnepr. I would set units to REFIT, and get moving WEST.

You have territory to burn right now, you may as well burn it.

There is one level 1 fort in the lower part.... [;)].
Probably a good idea to withdraw. I do have a long fortified line north of Moscow though, and withdrawing would unhinge that too.

Moscow is irrelevant.

The only thing you need to worry about is beating the clock. If you end this thing anywhere near the prewar border, you're good to go. That's a win. And I'm still doubting the Germans can get to Berlin in time. Don't expend the Wehrmacht hundreds of miles east of where you need to be to win.

Thanks for the advice! I agree with the reasoning. Not really possible with a big withdrawal this turn, but I'll start it next turn.

[Tarhunnas]

OOB turn 135.

[Flaviusx]

One thing to keep in mind: units set to static that retreat will now remain on static. (I'm not entirely sure I agree with this change but there it is.) This can become a disaster if not handled correctly. We've had some major headaches redesigning the scenarios to account for the rules change. (The 1944 GC turns into the destruction of AGN and AGC with all the units set to static, for example, the Germans don't have enough APs to get things activated and things snowball quite badly as a result. Trey had to adjust for that.)

It's a damn shame about your armaments situation. It really is seriously screwing up this game. You really should have it in the bag, but the inability to get your men on the field and out of your pools is distorting things badly.

[karonagames]

I think it would be worth asking Pavel to do a "Hot hack" to give you the 200k armaments or whatever it is you lost because of the 47mm bug. It would be a shame to see the front crumble for something that was not your fault.

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

One thing to keep in mind: units set to static that retreat will now remain on static. (I'm not entirely sure I agree with this change but there it is.) This can become a disaster if not handled correctly. We've had some major headaches redesigning the scenarios to account for the rules change. (The 1944 GC turns into the destruction of AGN and AGC with all the units set to static, for example, the Germans don't have enough APs to get things activated and things snowball quite badly as a result. Trey had to adjust for that.)

I have a suspicion this doesn't work. I had a division retreated this turn and I am fairly certain that it was in static mode before, but it isn't after it's retreat.

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

It's a damn shame about your armaments situation. It really is seriously screwing up this game. You really should have it in the bag, but the inability to get your men on the field and out of your pools is distorting things badly.

Thanks. I am getting used to it though, this is the third time it happens [8|].

[Peltonx]

Wow your numbers are dropping fast.

200,000 in arm pts is not going to save the game now. Your moral overall is to low now. Sure armerment pts will fill up divisions, but they still be usless 1 to 3 CV units.

The problem you have now is your infantry even not in static mode can't out run Russian armor.

Gids can now start picking off a handfull of divisions every turn. If you try to save them you lose other units, which after 10 turns will make your army truely usless. Even during mud turns Gids will be able to attack your formations.

So once summer comes in June his railheads will be at the front an he beable to start building some pockets.

I am guessing more then likely a minor russian victory and a slim chance of a major Russian victory.

Really sad seeing you did so good over-all.

Its more then likely that even with 1.05 this will be the general out come now, better then the German army braking in 43.

The problem now is Russian players can save almost all there industry that matters and run east. This insures a huge army come the summer of 42 which will mean trenchwarfare in 42 and the braking of the German army in early to mid 44. The lines will be much farther east then this game so will end in mostly major Russian victory's.

Once the German army brakes its 4 to 6 hexes a turn which means 100 hexes in just 15 to 20 turns.

You did far better then historical in killed troops, industry, manpower center and land and still your hopes for even a draw are looking very very grim. Even with 200k more armerment points a draw is not very likely.

Pelton

[Q-Ball]

RE: Static, why not just make sure you save enough APs to activate several divisions in the event of trouble? It's not that expensive to activate 20 at a time, which should be enough to stop trouble.

Problem with 1944 scenario was that you didn't have APs in the bank to make the activations. During a normal game, you probably would.

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Wow your numbers are dropping fast.

200,000 in arm pts is not going to save the game now. Your moral overall is to low now. Sure armerment pts will fill up divisions, but they still be usless 1 to 3 CV units.

Not sure morale is the problem. Here is a pic of commanders report showing the worst German infantry divisions.

[Q-Ball]

Tarhunnas's last production shot had about 300,000 men in the German pool, between Germans and Hiwis. So, even with 1 mil Armaments, you'll still be only up to 2.7 mil; probably too little to sustain an effort.

You're right, your biggest problem isn't morale, it's that your Infantry Divisions are completely cooked. Only the Latvians have any strength, and that's because they just got there.

[Flaviusx]

The Red Army isn't amazing here. It's very low on AFVs and artillery compared to its historical counterpart.

If the Wehrmacht can break contact it will recover some morale. And fall back to far more defensible terrain. Then recover during the spring and fall rasputitsas and hold on to defenses based on major rivers during the summer.

But living hand to mouth on whatever armaments you get per turn is probably not enough to drain the manpower pools. (There's probably more manpower that can be freed up from excess HQs and airfields, too.) This is the real sticking point. The situation is repairable otherwise.

Some of the worst infantry divisions might just have to be merged with others here. I would also consider disbanding some artillery SUs, and leaving the rest set at minimum TOE.

[Ketza]

For the Static strategy to work you need a pool of APS great enough to "wake up" a sizable section of the front. I have seen that static divisions do remain that way after combat retreats so that is working properly.

Also this is a long term strategy. Going static every now and again really is not going to do much but going static along most of your front over time you can see a tremendous long term impact from attrition savings. In my case I am estimating those savings to be around 75k a month. Not a lot data so far but the trend is good.

This of course also works for the Soviet side but I am guessing it will not be used as often because "waking up" static units uses APS that are gold to a Soviet player. And it will really suck for a Soviet player to "wake up" 25 hexes of the front after a general Axis withdrawal [:D]

[Peltonx]

Nice info Katza. When it comes to defending and managing logistics I am thinking there are none better.

I need to get my game at some wheres near 75% or your in those areas.

Your moral does look manageable unless you keep losing battles.

Flaviusx ideas would help, but it be very hard to brake contact. Vs Hoooper he pushed during mud turns. Yes he lost almost every battle, but it kept draining me. So if Gids chooses he can keep presurre on even during mud and still be gaining troops every turn.

Keep up the good fight, I know what its like once the german army is broken. There are no good options.

Only thing that helped was my mech forses could pulge breaches easly.