Return to Smolensk and Beyond, IdahoNY vs Scar

[IdahoNYer]

This is the current Crisis Point....

Unrelenting Soviet pressure against AGC during the "Winter Offensive" has effectively reduced both 3rd Pz Armee and 4th Army to Kampfgruppe delaying actions between Rzhev and the Bryansk Line.

In 3rd Pz Armee's area, XXXVII PzKps delays just south of Rzhev - but with only one Pz Div (7th) at the start of the turn, there's not much to hold up the massed Rifle Corps - fortunately, no Tank Corps are in the area. Near Vyazma, XL PzKps attempts somewhat of a "stand", but that will be short lived as 4th Army is rapidly deteriorating to its south

4th Army has received the brunt of the Soviet attack, and it shows. Its infantry are mere shells. III SS PzKps attempts to hold the northern end of the Bryansk Line, but between them and 3rd Pz Armee, there isn't really much of anything. VII Korps is at best division strength - delaying some 50 miles north of Yelna. The only hope hear is that the Bryansk Line offers some defense and the Soviets move NW instead of continuing directly west.

While the Bryansk Line may offer some respite, the Soviets have already decided to turn south while east of the Bryansk Line - presumably heading to liberate Orel. The most recent attack has isolated three divisions of IX Korps when the III PzKps counter attack failed. While 3rd Pz and 4th Army are in bad shape, the crisis may now spread to 2nd Army, thus encompassing all of AGC.

Mud is the best hope right now to stem the Soviet attack - Rzhev, Vyazma, Smolensk, Bryansk and Orel are all threatened and will likely fall if General Mud doesn't intervene.

[IdahoNYer]

Here is the turn after the German move.

Not really alot of welcome news here. Between Vyazma and III SS PzKps there is a gap of about 50 miles that two German Korps "defend".....more actually at best, delay. The intent is to induce the Soviets to attack into this direction, narrowing their penetration between the two PzKps.

I think that may be wishful thinking actually, and he'll bull through the Bryansk Line as well.

In 2nd Army's sector, the isolated divisions of IX Korps are doomed as I'm forced to pull back the battered and fatigued III Pzkps. But the isolated divisions manage to regain supply status, which may delay the Soviet advance if he elects to isolate again, or they'll rout out. Either way, its a minor victory...

Even so, if he lunges his massed tank and mech corps SW to the south of Bryansk, this could get ugly very, very quickly. South of Orel to Kharkov, there is but one Pz Div.

[IdahoNYer]

Further south, the pressure against Kharkov seems to have lessened, as the Soviet attacks seem to have shifted south. Perhaps the massing of the best of the German Panzer Korps have helped???

In any case, the pressure has increased against XXXXVIII PzKps as it appears the Soviets are attempting to reach the Sea of Azov an cut off the German Korps at the southern end of the line against the sea.

Attacks against the XXXXVI PzKps were limited to attacks against the delaying regiments deployed along the line.

The goal here remains keeping the Soviets east of the Dniepr at all costs. So far, that's working....but the price is high.

[Kronolog]

It's fascinating to see how the game changes once the initiative is passed on to the the soviets.

[olivier34]

Great AAR, thanks to share all this with us !

[IdahoNYer]

Turn 142; Mar 2, 1944.......blizzard, snow and mud in Europe

Quick update...General Mud has entered theater and is moving slowly from central Europe toward the Eastern Front....Salvation!

In the meantime, crisis deepens for AGC. Major Soviet thrust through 4th Army is too strong to be effectively counterattacked by 3rd Pz Armee's XL PzKps (2xPz, PG) and 4th Army's III SS PzKps (2xPz, 2xPG) as was the original plan. Very little stands in the way of the Soviet attack between these two PzKps. Infantry is pretty much played out. Two reinforcing infantry divisions from AGN, detrained east of Smolensk to attempt to hold Yelna at the tip of the Soviet spearhead. Both PzKps resort to mobile defense of strong panzer concentrations to delay west. Vyazma and Bryansk will fall shortly, likely in the nest two weeks. Rzhev maybe two to three weeks.

2nd Army meanwhile manages to once again regain a corridor to the trapped divisions of IX Korps with a short attack by III PzKps (3xPz) against two tank corps - then pulls back to its own mobile defense. Orel should fall within the next two weeks.

With continued pressure toward the Dniepr, AGC is pretty much on its own until the mud hits - that should halt the Soviet advance and give the Landsers a breather.

[IdahoNYer]

Turn 143; Mar 9, 1944.....Snow

Weather is NOT warming up fast enough!! While both AGN and AGA have, for the most part, likely survived the Soviet winter offensive, and retained the defensive prize - Leningrad in the north, and the Dniepr Bend in the south.

AGC has not been so fortunate. With the majority of the infantry reduced to mere shells in both 3rd Pz Armee and 4th Army, the PzKps mobile defense had been doing a fair job of delaying the Soviet drive west. Until now.....

Major Soviet thrust hits the boundary of 3rd Pz Armee and 4th Army, encircling Vyazma and much of the delaying XL PzKps. The orientation of the drive, to the West-Northwest was unexpected - I figured he was more concerned about flanking Orel to the south - and this resulted in a poor defense, which he has managed to exploit - More on this in the following screen shot.

Overall, mud HAS to arrive shortly so we can pull the panzers out to refit before the summer offensive. I plan on trading space for time for Summer '44. That's the main reason I've held as far east as I could during the winter - once mud starts to end, I hope to pull back to the Dniepr pretty quickly, using the "rested" panzers to delay west while the infantry takes up positions, which are moderately fortified. With some luck, I can forstall a major Soviet assault on the Dniepr's "Eastern Rampart" until mid summer.

[IdahoNYer]

Against AGC, I expected the main weight of the Soviet attack against the Bryansk area to flank the line of Orel-Kursk.

Instead, the Soviets shifted the thrust north of Bryansk, and headed west toward Smolensk, bypassing Vyazma. And, in the process encircled 19th Pz and 3+ infantry divisions in the Vyazma Pocket. While there is a good chance some of these forces may escape encirclement as the situation is "fluid", the trapped 5th Pz and one infantry div to the SW of Vyazma is likely doomed. III SS PzKps is stretched too thin to be an effective counter attack force, and XL PzKps is itself fighting for survival. Just to the north, near Rzhev, XXXXVII PzKps is itself dealing with a small Soviet penetration, that it might be able to contain - but certainly can't spare panzers for the crisis east of Smolensk.

Other than III SS PzKps, 4th Army's combat power is minimal. Two fairly fresh divisions off the railhead at Yelna and one refitting PG Div, and the rest are burnt out infantry divisions badly in need of rest.

2nd Army, trying to hold Orel, has succeeded in that endevor thanks to the sacrifice of the pocket to the north of Orel. Originall 3 plus xIN Div of IX Korps, two divisions have managed to fight their way out, while keeping the pocket out of isolation. However, after three weeks of fighting, III PzKps is no longer capable of supporting an extraction of the remaining division +. With the Soviets no longer having to re-isolate the pocket, they now can not only destroy its remnants, but resume the thrust to take Orel. Its loss is inevitable.

If mud comes in the next week or two, I can perhaps avoid a rout of AGC - its that close to falling completely apart. Only the arrival of General Mud can save the day!

[stone10]

Is there a screen shot of OOB?

[IdahoNYer]

Stone 10 -

last OOB I posted was Jan 6, 1944 - its the last post on page 12. I'll do another after mud brings the carnage to a brief halt.

[IdahoNYer]

Screens show the moves after the German turn.....

9th Army pulls out of its fortified line, leaving two divisions worth of a screen line deployed as regiments to delay the Soviet advance. This move was forced due to the crisis fast approaching Smolensk. XXXXVII PzKps, reinforced with 20th PZ from LVII PzKps, conducted a quick counterattack to rout a lone Soviet Tank Corps which advanced east of Rzhev, but then had to quickly move south toward the crisis sector.

Once 9th Army withdaws far enough west, 16th Army will begin to collapse its line toward the Valdai Hills - the only prepared line south of the Volkov Line south of Leningrad. Still, that should shorten the line and perhaps release some panzers from XXXIX PzKps.

[Q-Ball]

Are you just leaving that unit in "Festung Torzhok" to die? Looks like you could have pulled them back a hex, but they should easily be surrounded after this turn, and then destroyed.

I would have saved them, you need to save every Landser you can. Even though that means giving up the last size-5 fort we'll ever see on dry land......

It's a tough call to give up good forts, but at some point you have to.

Late War for the Germans looks like it will involved several choices, usually all of them bad.

[IdahoNYer]

To slow the Soviet thrust toward Smolensk, and to relieve the Vyazma Pocket, XXXXVII PzKps (3rd Pz Armee) is brought south from Rzhev and the III SS PzKps (4th Army) is brought north west from positions east of Roslaval.

While XXXXVII PzKps is in no position to agressively attack the Soviet thrust from the north as it arrives late, III SS PzKps, led by Totenkopf, attacks to the pocket from the west. Within the Pocket are two panzer divisions, and three plus infantry divisions - the pocket itself divided in half. The attack by III SS PzKps releives 5th Pz which pulls out west, the infantry conducting rear guard actions. 19th Pz manages escape to the northwest toward the approaching XXXXVII PzKps - also isolating two Soviet Tank Corps in the process. While extracting the panzers was paramount, the infantry will not be saved - although they might bog down the Soviet attack by holding "Fortress Vyazma".

By moving III SS PzKps northwest toward Smolensk, 4th Army has severly weakened its right flank tying in with 2nd Army near Bryansk. Should the Soviets shift their advancing axis from West-Northwest to Southwest, there is very little to stop them.

[IdahoNYer]

While the shift of III SS PzKps toward Smolensk threatens the front NW of Orel, the massing of Soviet Tank Corps west of Orel is more troublesome at the moment. After three plus weeks, the pocket north of Orel is likely ready to fall, and I can be greatful that two of the three plus divisions managed to rout out in the fighting. I credit this pocket with delaying the next major thrust toward Orel for the past three weeks. And with mud just around the corner, the delay was well worth the loss of the divisions.

Now the floodgate should open, and I expect the full force of Soviet attack to thrust SW of Orel. Standing in the way is the much depleted III PzKps - which may delay, but certainly won't stop the expected onslaught.

Once Orel is no longer holdable, both 2nd and 6th Armies will give ground, abandoning their fortifications and fall back to the west. Again, I'm reluctant to abandon fortifications at level 4, especially since there are few well dug in positions to the rear until the Dniepr is reached - and they are not complete north of Kiev.

Lastly, 2nd SS Pz Div is brought up from 4th Pz Armee, where the front has quieted somewhat - still east of the Dniepr Bend.

[IdahoNYer]

The remainder of the front is fairly stable for the time being. The Soviet thrust toward the Dneipr Bend looks to have been worn down. Hopefully that is a true statement......as 1st Pz Armee's infantry are at the breaking point.

[IdahoNYer]

Q-Ball -

I've been struggling with the decision to pull back from level 3 or better forts ever since I lost the initiative - its a tough call!! Forts are much harder to come by in recent patches, and once out in the open, the Germans will get run over in late '43-44.

So....occasionally I'll have Festung Whatever to slow the Red Hordes down. In this case, I probably should have pulled out of Torzuk about a month ago to shorted the lines - but in that month, I've repulsed at least 2 separate attacks - at great cost to the Soviets.

But now its time to pull back, and I've left a regimental sized rear-guard - which to me is a fair sacrifice if it prevents freedom of movement through the city for another week, or beats back another attack.

[IdahoNYer]

Turn 144; Mar 16, 1944.....Blizzard

Looks as though General Mud is not going to make a speedy appearance. Not good news.....

AGN has been the primary "bill payer" for the debacle AGC finds itself in. This bill paying culminated this past week with 8th Army HQs and its XXXXI PzKps HQs moving by rail to between Smolensk and Bryansk to fill the growing gap between 4th Army and 2nd Army. 16th Army takes over the divisions left behind as well as an additional Korps HQ, and ties in with 18th Army near Lake Ilmen. On 16th Army's right flank, XXXIX PzKps gives up 12th Pz Div and an infantry division to the now forming 8th Army in AGC area of operations.

Elsewhere in AGN's AO, 9th Army continues to slowly pull back westwards, but manages a quick counterattack with an infantry division to re-establish a corridor to "Fortress Torzuk", garrisoned by a regiment.

All this "bill paying" comes with a price of course. First and foremost, is the reduced combat capability in AGN's AO. That is mitigated somewhat by the reduced frontage as 16th and 9th Army's fall back to the west. However, the cost in APs has been severe - the total remaining in the pool is now 19. Critically low - there were over 200 before AGC began a tremendous influx of troops - requiring shifts in command - during the Soviet winter offensive.

[IdahoNYer]

Situation in AGC continues to deteriorate, although the pace of deterioration has slowed down a tad....

The Vyazma pocket actually manages to fight its way out back toward German lines - for the most part. Two infantry divisions, or what's left of them, rejoin German lines to the NW of Vyazma, the remaining forces pulled out to the west. This allows XL and XXXXVII PzKps to re-establish somewhat of a line between Vyazma and Smolensk. This is also possible as the Soviets shifted the weight of their attack to the most vulnerable point in the German line - just northwest of Bryansk.


South of 4th Army's III SS PzKps and Bryansk itself wasn't much, and the Soviets exploited that gap. Pushing hard to the SW, they drove a good 10+ tank and mech corps, pushing aside scattered infantry formations.

With a growing gap, 8th Army HQs was railled south from AGN, and will take responsibility of this area. 2nd SS Pz "Das Reich" was the first unit brought up last week from 4th Pz Armee, and it was what the lead Soviet Tank Corps ran into - probably a bit surprised when they ran into this capable formation in a see of disintegration. 4th Pz Div was brought over from III PzKps in 2nd Army, and the two divisions immediately counterattacked west of Bryansk, routing one Tank Corps and forcing another to withdraw - temporarily stabilizing the line.

12 Pz Div detrained about 50 miles west of the western most Soviet units, and SS Totenkopf was moved south from III SS PzKps "just in case". Infantry formations have been gathered from where ever they could be scrapped up, including reinforcements from other theaters, LW Field Div manning the "Eastern Rampart" along the Dniepr, and other misc forces. This will be the new "8th Army"......

Overall plan is to continue to attempt to blunt the Soviet attack while preserving as much as the force as I can - but - hold as far east as I can. If I can hold east now, mud will allow time to regroup, then pull back a reasonable distance before the Soviet Summer Offensive hits in Jun....

[IdahoNYer]

Turn 145; Mar 23, 1944.......Snow

Soviet pressure continues, but not with the rigor it had in the past few turns. Perhaps they are tiring??? One can hope...

In AGN area of operations the Soviets once again isolate "Fortress Torzuk". And the usual German counterattack is conducted with an infantry division, but this time the defending Rifle Div repulses the attack! This will doom the regiment defending the fortress. Overall, this isn't a bad trade off - the Torzuk position was "untenable" for over a month due to the flanking pressure to the west, still, the position held off numerous attacks, causing countless Soviet losses. Well worth the price of a regiment.

Elsewhere, 9th Army as well as parts of 3rd Pz Armee are pushed back by concentreated Rifle Corps attacks along a broad front. Delaying regiments are pushed forward where the Soviets did not occupy the advance, and small local attacks to push back an advancing rifle division. The front is holding, but the infantry is truely worn out and badly in need of rest and refit.

Hopefully, the Soviets are worn down as well...

[IdahoNYer]

Pressure relaxes slightly against AGC, especially against 3rd Pz Armee.

This pause allows XXXXVII PzKps to counterattack against 2xTk Corps, which it mauls, destroying over 225 tanks in exchange for 35. This rescues the last division encircled in the Vyazma Pocket to pull out to the NW.

Soviet armor is apparently disengaged from most of 3rd Pz Armee's frontage, and massed against 4th Army. While no breakout takes place, the Soviets push west toward a critical rail line which links AGC with AGB. It's loss would add a week's travel as trains would have to divert west toward Minsk if the line is lost.

4th Army concentrates III SS PzKps to protect the rail line, and links in with 8th Army's XXXXI PzKps. Between XXXXI PzKps and 2nd Army's position in Bryansk there still isn't much combat power - but I'd rather have the Soviets attack south instead of west at this point.

The Soviets do take Bryansk against a regimental delaying action, but Orel to the east still holds as pressure is relaxed there as well.

Not really sure why the Soviets aren't pushing as hard as they can between Orel and Rzhev at the moment. The German position is holding on by a thread - only where there are panzers. The infantry is extremely weak, with most formations' strength hovering around 5000 men.

Objective remains denying a Soviet breakthrough, and maintaining a presence as far east as possible.