Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v smokindave(Sov). 1.05 beta

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I am creating alot of FORT ZONES, but not for digging, but to prevent fort decay, as I just don't have enough units to cover all my forts, and at any rate, I would rather keep a 1000-man Fort Zone in the open than a 10,000 man HQ. I just have to make sure I pick them up before the Russians are close, as I don't need to give him cheap POWs either. I expect to lose a couple in Blizzard, but hopefully not more than that.

You can minimize manpower drainage with the FZs by setting them, immediately upon construction, to 50% TOE. Each turn, turn off Refit for the previous turn's built FZs. This usually ends up leaving them topping off with about 30-40% TOE.

[mmarquo]

"Any reason that B-G might be bombing all my HQs? I have noticed this for awhile now. Maybe it's to limit supplies or kill leaders, though the Germans have some depth in good leadership."

I have experimented with this and it can be absolutely devastating, especially if 100 + bombers hit an HQ in the open --> losses of 2 - 300 troops and 20 - 50 artillery pieces are not uncommon. Do not leave HQs alone in the open or they will get absolutely hammered. Attack per attack, you score more against HQs than against any other unit on the map.

Marquo

[juret]

Great AAR

reading this and learning how to play

[RedBunny]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

An export feature to excel would be amazing. I love this idea. Not sure if this is doable or easy, though.

Export to CSV would be easy though. I wish the devs would consider it.

[Q-Ball]

JAM: Good advice, I have been putting some limits on. I still have alot in the open, but as I fall back on forts, I will be picking them up. At the moment, about 110,000 Germans are in Fort Zones.

Thanks for comments otherwise guys

T-24: Last Turn of Snow:

We significantly scaled back our attacks this turn; mostly because our Panzers spent more time moving to the nearest city than attacking. My poor Landsers, stuck out in the open anyway, when ahead and attacked. About 45,000 Russians were killed this turn.

Picture below says it all. Compared to my game vs. Tarhunnas, B-G is about 300,000 short, and my lines are shorter. Tarhunnas had some good forts, though. I don't expect this to be a fun winter. At all.

Unit Plan:

Several Units are going back to East Prussia for the Winter. Including:
1. 4 Infantry Divisions of 90+ Morale
2. 2 Mot Divs also 90+
3. 2 Panzer Divs of 94+ Morale
4. GD Mot Regt; 99 Morale
5. 8 Airbases; with all my bombers in Germany, no point keeping them up front. A few more will go back later; right now, they are watching trenches

I have ALOT of units sitting on FORTS to keep them from decaying, including about 95 Fort Zones, HQs, Airbases, and some units. It's really a pain to do this, but the Germans MUSt keep them from degrading, if you don't want to spend the Blizzard in the open.

I have done everything I can to build FORTS. I probably did too many, since they will get run over fast in Blizzard, but I needed to halt anyway for supply reasons.

Any other advice would be appreciated. You can see the map below. I didn't build alot of RR right to the front, because I expect to fall back on my rail lines, by evacuating alot of hexes.

CRIMEA: I continue to occupy most of the Crimea, with only a few ridiculously exposed units. They will make a run for the exits as soon as Blizzard hits.

[sj80]

Hi Q-Ball,
very nice defense lines, these will help you a lot during blizzard I think. I'm at turn 25 in my game with Lasalle and I missed to protect old fortifications from decaying. So I will have to survice in open terrain after my front line is pushed back. Are forts creating fortification levels by themselves after some turns like standard units?
I did the same thing during snow .. pushing back the Sovjets and creating some space to my frontline.
One more question, did you set other TOE levels to your units than you wrote at beginning of your AAR with setting TOE of artillery to 50%?

sj80

[Q-Ball]

T-25: First Blizzard Turn:

First turn seems easy; no Soviet attacks. I have no illusions on this winter; B-G is a good player, and he has plenty to open a can of whoop-ass on the Wehrmacht. I am hoping to limit the damages.

At any rate, I am posting maps to show what I am trying to do. Probably won't work, but worth trying anyway.

I have 7 units now in East Prussia I hope not to touch, that can help me open up my own can come March.

Meanwhile, the pain is about to begin.

[M60A3TTS]

Q-Ball, on the winter cross-river movement costs, I see the rule referring to major rivers. I see on the map there that you are behind one, the Oka, in spots but not in others. Do you understand the rules to be that way?

[Klydon]

It will be interesting to see what happens. If a Russian has not played with the new winter rules, they are going to be in for a shock. They have got to make hay during December when the Axis are at their weakest. Come January, the combat values will improve a fair amount for the Axis, and although they are still vulnerable to excessive damage due to the blizzard, it is not nearly as easy to kick the crap out of them up and down the front. If the Russians don't get things rolling in December, their offensive could fizzle during January. The other thing is they want enough pressure on the Axis to at least make them commit panzers in the open. If the Axis can "winter" the panzers in safe cities for December, it helps them a lot.

Q-Ball, I am somewhat surprised you don't have a larger reserve, although nothing says you can't add to it as the winter goes along. Are you planning to add to it? I was pulling battered units out and sending them to Poland to refit and join the reserve, but 7 divisions is not much of a spearhead. (Think I had equivalent to a 4 division panzer corps and 8 infantry divisions along with GD and another panzer division hanging out in Leningrad).

[Q-Ball]

That is a good question on RESERVES.

I have alot more reserves than the ones in East Prussia; in fact, I don't know that I consider them "Reserves", I really hope to keep them parked all Winter no matter what. That's now GD Regt, 1 Panzer Corps, and 4 Inf. Div, all 90+ morale units.

In addition, I have the following:

4 Infantry Divisions in "Strategic Reserve" in Russia; i.e., back of the front on a rail-line, in safe place (Mogilev, Kiev, etc)
At least 6 more Divisions in "Ready Reserve"; parked in cities closer to the front
Most of my Panzers are parked in Cities right now; I am keeping them closer to the front just in case

Basically, every city east of the Dnepr is full-up on units. And I have placed untis in several Size-4 cities on the map.

If you look up top at the shot near Voronezh; you see 2 Panzer Units in what appears to be the open.

The one in the SW corner is in a size-4 town. You just can't tell. It will likely stay there all December.

The other one is 10th Panzer; it is going to stay out all Winter. I don't really care if that particular unit has cooked morale come March, because it's gone in May anyway.

LAH SS and Das Reich are also spending the winter outside. They are withdrawn before the 1942 summer campaign anyway.

Same for 12th Panzer, which is really 12th ERSATZ panzer (It's a re-built unit that was destroyed in Moscow); it's Morale is already low, so who cares. It's going to fight.

THese are some of the ways I am making decisions

[gingerbread]

If you park 12th Pz on refit in Warsaw, it will grow back to an morale 80 unit in time for '42 campaign.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

If you park 12th Pz on refit in Warsaw, it will grow back to an morale 80 unit in time for '42 campaign.

Yes, but units with a current Morale over 80 will lose it permanently barring future combat, so 12th Panzer stays outside first. Understand the point though.

Also, units put back in East Prussia or Warsaw will be the first to receive the IIIJ/L60, or the IV F2. I want those tank-killers to go to higher morale units. If 12th Panzer was in Warsaw, it would be collecting those types first.

BTW: I screwed-up on the ICE rules. Dumb on my part! I should have read more carefully; the new lvl-8 ICING rules apply to MAJOR RIVERS ONLY. So, all the lines I put up around MINOR rivers are a mistake. I left some units out there, thinking they would get a bonus, this turn only, for protection on Minor Rivers, but no dice. Only with the handful of units I have along the DON near Voronezh, do I get any kind of break there. Ouch!

RESERVE COUNT:

I just did a count around the Map. I have 14 GE Infantry Divisions in Russia that are in Reserve at the moment; i.e., they are in cities. Almost all are within shouting distance of the front. I have about 4-5 decent Romanian Divisions also in reserve (Decent means full-strength, and 50+ morale/experience)

In addition, I currently have 17 Mobile Divisions parked in Cities in Russia close to the Front.

[Klydon]

Yep, agree on all points as far as what units you have out to do the brunt of fighting outside due to their withdrawl.

After I noticed my armor units falling to pieces with the way tank attrition works now, I also moved some high moral motorized units out to be ready for a summer offensive. The way I see it: full strength panzer divsion > motorized division with 3 support units > panzer unit that has been marching around for awhile. Unfortunately a full strength panzer unit seems to attrition down faster than motorized units now.

[Mike13z50]

The one in the SW corner is in a size-4 town. You just can't tell. It will likely stay there all December.

I was wondering why you mentioned the size 4 part of the town, so went back to the rule book.

In a town hex, one unit with the highest CV is eligible to avoid the penalty, but only if Die (4) is less than or equal to the population value of the town.

OUCH! I stopped reading at the bold part. I'm in mid-January in my first game as Germans and have had Panzers sitting in small towns. Live and learn.

[Q-Ball]

MIKE: Yes, you can't really count on size-1 or 2 towns. If you get a good die roll it's gravy, but that's it. It can be a hassle finding the larger town though.

12/11/41: 2nd Turn of Blizzard:

This turn wasn't too terrible, except for a MAJOR brain fart on my part (I forgot to move a couple units!). They will get destroyed, but oh well....lesson learned.

Overall, the number of attacks was less than I expected.

Attack Counter:
26-3 This turn; not a ton of attacks, obviously they almost all worked though
I will keep a total counter as well; it's 26-3 at this point!

In my game vs. Tarhunnas, I started in the 70s and 80s, and got to a 100 a few turns. Tarhunnas had good forts, too. Key differences: 1) Shorter German lines in this one, and 2) My Red Army was 300,000 stronger at this point, which is almost exactly the difference in in POWs in the two games.

We made 2 counterattacks this turn, in both case Tank Brigade stacks that stuck their necks out, and we routed. Tank Brigades are pretty easy targets, even in Blizzard.

OOOPS!

I forgot to move 2 divisions in the Crimea; I guess I moved the map, and forgot to go down there. As a result, 2 divisions are going to be destroyed right off the bat. OUCH! This was just a dumb mistake on my part. B-G graciously offered to re-do turn, but I can live with the mistake. It's 2 divisions, not the end of the world.

Soviet Army:

First, turn, we can already see a couple points of push.

The main effort seems to be between Moscow and Voronezh, with strong secondary efforts around Torzhok, and the Donbas. We identified a SHOCK army south of Tula, and there are alot of guys there. I think this is the main push. We are dispatching reinforcements, but I am going to run out of forts there at the end of the month.

January is going to be tough. In February, I can open a gap and let him run west if he wants to in a bulge, provided I hold the flanks.

4 Reserve Divisions are on their way to 4th Army, which will bear the brunt.

There are two notably quiet sectors. One is north of the Donbas; no attacks. The other is in front of the Valdai Hills, near the Finns. From both these areas, I am pulling a couple extra divisions to reinforce the center. I am also pulling the Panzer Corps from AGN to send to the center.

Run or Hold?

This is the key question for the Germans in Blizzard. Forts are dear. Obviously you don't want units cut-off, but otherwise you have to be smart on whether you run or hold.

I would say my strategy has had a fair amount of running so far. I am not running in front of Moscow, because although I started Blizzard with 3 quality rows of forts, I have nothing behind me. Once the forts near Moscow are gone, I will be falling back on Smolensk. Further south, I have lines prepared in the rear, but those won't be enough.

IMO, it is impossible for the Germans to have 13 turns worth of forts avaiable. Not only is it almost impossible to construct all those forts, you would need 100s of forts zones just to keep them from degrading. I built approx. 300 size-2 forts as it was, and that took a major halt, and effort with Shovels.

Once the forts run out, I plan to retreat. I may give up 20 hexes along the front this Blizzard, despite preparations. It is very difficult to build more than 2-3 rows of forts as Germans, without halting on turn 10. If you remember, I also took more empty ground in the center during Snow, for the express purpose of creating a buffer. That buffer is now gone, but served it's purpose.

I hope by the time I am out in the open, and I will end up out in the open, I will get CV bumps. January figures to be very very tough, but February I should be OK, and thinking about REVENGE...........

Losses:

So far, losses are about 75,000 for me during Blizzard, and 100,000 for him. Attrition must be taking a toll.

[TulliusDetritus]

LOL

Someone with enough creativity should do some sort of Hitler's rant (with WitE) [:D]

My prefered have always been Hitler Vista Problems and Hitler Not A Happy Chappy After Sheff[ield] Utd [a Premier League football team] Relegated [8D]

[JAMiAM]

Well done, Q-Ball! Laughed my ass off with the Hitler rant!

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Pieter, I don't believe you. [:)] It's morale. Soviet morale is lower now than before, and German morale is higher. It just is. You're just not seeing the dynamic in play now. The Germans are more mobile; they make more attacks; they get more morale; and are taking less losses doing so than ever before thanks to the way this ratchets up. The opposite effect is going on with the Soviets.

You don't get this because you won't see it playing the AI. This is what happens when you play a human, who will press the thing to the limit.

But don't take my word for it. Let's ask our veteran PBEMers like Q-ball here. How do you think your morale and casualty ration are now compared to earlier versions?

I am thinking the problem is that Russian players are just running east?

There are next to nothing in counter attacks in the AAR's, most russians are afraid of losing arm pts and getting bagged so they retreat and put up screens and not a real defence until turn 12 or so.

As a German from turns 1- 10 I win 99% of the battles because there is nothing to fight against.


ComradeP is 100% right your over all morale is better, but over all Russian tactics have changed after 1.05 and the tactic of evacing and running east has a cost, which is lower moral for the Reds and higher morale for the Germans.

Its easy to click up moral fighting screens for 10 turns.



Pelton

[Peltonx]

Losses your last post were really good for you. General winter killed most of your troops. Problem is once your out of forts you be retreating unit March.

Forts should be build based on where you want to defend in January and not December.

Atleast thats my post 1.05 thinking.

Pelton

[Q-Ball]

RE: DOWNFALL: T-D, maybe someone should do a Downfall Parody on WITE. The world does not have enough Downfall parodies!!!!

PS: Is the real film any good?

ORIGINAL: Pelton
Forts should be build based on where you want to defend in January and not December.

Atleast thats my post 1.05 thinking.

Pelton

I agree with this, but it's one of those "easier said than done". The problem is that combat units are the diggers; so if they are several hexes back of the line digging fortifications, they are not up front manning the line. That's the problem. Meanwhile, you end up building a fort-line right at the front, by default, because there are units there.

I did build back of the line in the Crimea, and I also built a line from Belgorod through the Donbas cities, all of which started at least 8 hexes off the front. That's the best I felt I could do. I had to thin out the front to do it, to the extent that B-G was starting to pick on my most exposed units. I also halted about 3 turns before the end of Summer, to mostly dig, and also grab empty space.

Up front, I created double-belts, mostly by splitting divisions into Regiments, and rotating them back and forth during MUD. That helps a bit, but the most you get are size-1 forts that way.

I am looking for good feedback. I probably should have pulled a few more units to around Orel/Kursk to dig in that vicinity, but other than that, I don't regret my winter prep decisions. You only have so many units and so much time.

I have also been fanatical about FORT MAINTENENCE, so nothing is degrading, but only because I am parking units there (like empty Hungarian airbases).

A whole thread should be started on 1.05 Winter Prep, because I think alot of German players are going to be caugh in even worse fort shape than I am, and really take it on the chin. I think we'll see that.

T-27: 12/18/41

A pattern has emerged on B-Gs attacks. He is focusing on fewer attacks, but acheiving very high odds, almost "sure things". Not a bad idea, his attacks feature multiple units, so that is a strategy focused on maxing out Guards status.

Against Tarhunnas, I had way way more attacks, over DOUBLE what B-G has. That's likely smaller Red Army, shorter front (fewer targets), morale changes. Tarhunnas had more forts. It's also, though, because I focused not on maxing-out my successful unit wins, but attacking the max number of Germans. Alot of those failed, but I pushed the Wehrmacht badly.

Attack Counter:
T-26: 25-11
Sum Total: 51-14

EVENTS THIS TURN:

The picture below tells the best story. My losses are about 1-1 once you throw in the 50K or so Red Army attrition each turn. That's about par for a Blizzard. Doesn't sound great, but we all know the Reds will take 1-1 any day of the week, and twice on May Day.

Couple items of note:
CRIMEA: The two divisions that Herr Hitler ranted about are going to die next turn. That's too bad, we all make mistakes, and good players make us pay for them. B-G is a good player, he made me PAY!

DONBAS: German Mountain units are tough. One of my Mountain Divisions ROUTED a Cav Corps this turn near the Donbas! That felt good!

Speaking of Cav Corps, we have identified one unit as "11th Cavalry Corps". That means B-G has at least 11 of those things. That's smart on his part, bad for us. We Hates Them!!!