Zero group sweeping multiple times per turn

[travicl1]

Running beta Q8a, I've noticed something odd with a particular Zero group. It seems to be sweeping with every strike on PM. Done it for two turns in a row now. I thought it might have just been a display issue at first but the group scored a kill in two seperate strikes on the first turn. Any ideas? Save attached.

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Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 32



Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk IA x 3


No Japanese losses

No Allied losses



Aircraft Attacking:
16 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet
15 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 10000 feet


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Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 82 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 32 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 15
G3M2 Nell x 33
G4M1 Betty x 25



Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk IA x 1


No Japanese losses

No Allied losses



Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 10

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x G3M2 Nell bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
25 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
6 x G3M2 Nell bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
15 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 10000 feet

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Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 31 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 17



Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk IA x 1


No Japanese losses

No Allied losses



Aircraft Attacking:
15 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 10000 feet
2 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet

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Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 15
Ki-21-Ic Sally x 25



Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk IA x 1


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-Ic Sally: 2 damaged

No Allied losses



Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 12

Aircraft Attacking:
25 x Ki-21-Ic Sally bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
15 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 10000 feet

[LoBaron]

There was a small bug causing similar behaviour pre-beta.
Wonder if something in the betas reintroduced it, because afaik it had been solved.

[michaelm75au]

The group is set to Escort not Sweep.

It isn't really 'sweeping' every turn but is acting as a escort group to the raids attacking PM.
It is being treated as a general escort group, to any raids against the target. When this happens, the group can stay in the target hex for awhile.


Seems to be a co-ordination issue with IJN fighter and IJA bombers.

[LoBaron]

Thanks for the details Michael!
I assumed that the number of fighters remainnig the same on every
replay was the bug, not the fact they show up at all.

So this is wad?

[michaelm75au]

Yes. It should have shown once.
And I expect that it probably should have been a sinlge SWEEP as it fails the IJA/IJN co-ordination check.

Or if it did manage to get by that small chance, then as an escort.

The issue I think is that 'indendent' groups aren't getting any co-ordination benefit when on land. Will address this.

Report after changes
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Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 16



Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk IA x 3


No Japanese losses

No Allied losses



Aircraft Attacking:
16 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet

CAP engaged:
No.75 Sqn RAAF with Kittyhawk IA (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 2 minutes

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Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 82 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 32 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 16
G3M2 Nell x 33
G4M1 Betty x 25



Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk IA x 2


No Japanese losses

No Allied losses



Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 8

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x G3M2 Nell bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
25 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
6 x G3M2 Nell bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
No.75 Sqn RAAF with Kittyhawk IA (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes

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Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 31 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 2



Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk IA x 1


No Japanese losses

No Allied losses



Aircraft Attacking:
2 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet

CAP engaged:
No.75 Sqn RAAF with Kittyhawk IA (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 41 minutes

[PaxMondo]

Wow!  Michael, thanks for the support.  Much appreciated!
 
[&o][&o][&o]

[Cavalry Corp]

Do IJN and IJA units not work together as much as attacks of just one type?

Its fine , just want to know?

[LoBaron]

Thanks! The AE bugfix one-man-team! [&o]

cavalry: You can coordinate missions between IJN and IJA, they do have an increased chance to come in uncoordinated though.
Its only one of many factors influencing coordination. As always, if you want to make up for coordination penalties you have
to make sure all other settings increase chances of coordination.

[Cavalry Corp]

No complaints - sounds realistic.

Do diff allied nationalities suffer the same problem?

[LoBaron]

There could be a penalty between nationalities, and there could be a penalty between services.
For security reasons I´d assume its there, but don´t count on it.

Coordination is chance based with a number of influencing values, so even P-39D may arrive over target escorting B29s.
Its just highly unlikely. OTOH an expert group of Zekes might fail to escort a Betty raid 4 hexes to target, but thats
also improbable to happen. It does happen though...

What you definitely have is a penalty between specific airframes. Depending on how the different airframes were used
historically this is pretty easy to guess, also the lower the cruise speed delta between a/c the lower the coordination
penalty.

For details you can read the guide in the war room.

And don´t rely on close escort exclusively where you don´t have to. [;)]