Fort Modifers and Odds Calculations'

[Richard III]

I`m sincerely trying to play a better Soviet `41 Game, actually trying to do a fighting retreat, not run, so I`d like to better understand the CRT combat reports.

In this result the Germans Pz. Div. + was attacking across a river line. My units were in a level 2 Forts + Fortified Zone built 2 turns back and all 3 units listed as "Ready", and in the "Blue" under decent leader command.

I don`t see how the German SU`s could add that much more manpower from Gun Batts. ( 74,265 ? ) and gun tubes ( total 1100 ?) to the average 10,000 man late July Pz. Div. ?

Why did the Lv. 2 Forts & Fortified Zone I dropped in 2 turns back contribute >0 to the odds results ? ( Fort 2->0 )

Also the units were next to each other, with the river between.

Thanks

[Farfarer61]

I'm not sure, but perhaps some unshown german sappers or other SU's negated the fort effect?

[Oleg Mastruko]

Richard see the downward arrow, in fact the letter V? [v]

Click on it and the list of participating units will continue. He had more units than what you see, I presume at least 2 more divisions.

[Richard III]

Sadly, I didn`t keep the save, but that must account for the larger manpower & gun tube #`s numbers. Still his Eng. number ( left ) is 3, is that 3 Eng. units or the value of the 1 sapper unit ?

The Newbie larger question is, since even a average Ger.player now knows to keep 1 sapper SU in the attack Div`s, ha splenty, what`s the point of spending 8 AP`s for Forts, when they are so easly ( in 1.5xxxx ) negated, even at Lv. 2 & 3 ?? Many of the current AAR`s show the Sov. players map thick with them around Moscow....

Also, not to be a B***h, but I have yet to get a "hold" in any combats, like maybe 30+, no matter well set up, up to July 30. T 8.

Forts seem useless, as well as defending river lines. If I ever get to `42 I hope The German player has the same problems...

thanks

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

Richard see the downward arrow, in fact the letter V? [v]

Click on it and the list of participating units will continue. He had more units than what you see, I presume at least 2 more divisions.

[mmarquo]

You are wearing him down...

[Farfarer61]

You will rarely see Held results unless the Axis is really pushing it with high MP use and high fatigue. It is your timed counter-attacks against extended and vulnerable units - attacks on your terms with Bombing, multiple hasty attacks, then the Big one, that will pay off. Of course he may then just surround you, but hey! it was fun for a while.

[heliodorus04]

1100 guns are going to shred a fort.
Minor rivers are no safety.
Soviet divisions under 10,000 men are easily moved (particularly when hit by 1,100 guns - that's German fantasy numbers), and your division was probably under 10k, I assume, because of the 12K figure and seeing the number of support units you had.
Your leader 'helped' reduce your CV by something around at least 50%.  You LOST 90% of your CV, probably due to 1,100 guns.

[76mm]

Richard, you have not seen anything yet...wait until more powerful units in a level 4 fort get the same treatment. when planning Sov defenses with forts, plan on your nominal CVs to be reduced by at least half, often more, maybe up to 90%.

[Q-Ball]

Actually, that was a very inefficient attack by your opponent. He used at least 4 Divisions, including 2 Panzer Divs, plus scads of support, guns, sappers, everything, on a Deliberate attack. The unmodified odds were 12-1. If that was across a river, he burned alot of MPs attacking you.

Just 2 of those divisions would have been plenty to push your unit.