the down side of making assumptions

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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Knyvet
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the down side of making assumptions

Post by Knyvet »

Just thought i would share the following hoping it brings a smile, chuckle, or sympathy.

WITP AE is really complex and if you don't have a reference (manual or forum) you can make some really stupid/funny mistakes based on assumptions.

My latest
I had a bunch of Betty and Nell units that I wanted to focus on Naval Attack missions. I decided I should check the units' Commanders at some point. Based on the screen info alone, I figured the skill rating for air unit Commanders indicates how skilled they are "Air" (as in air to air combat, such as Sweep and Escort missions), "Land" (as in Ground Attack, Airfield Attack, Port Attack), and "Naval" (as in Naval Attack with bombs or torps). Common sense, right?

So logically, I put the leaders with the highest available Naval skill in charge of the Betty and Nell units. I think I need to write a few letters to the families of the pilots who actually made it out door and did not come back.



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LoBaron
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RE: the down side of making assumptions

Post by LoBaron »

Actually naval skill of the commander influences success of naval attack missions.

(If it doesn´t, well, then I did something wrong for half a decade now, so please don´t
expect sympathy... [:D] )
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Knyvet
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RE: the down side of making assumptions

Post by Knyvet »

Really???? I just saw a thread about choosing unit Commanders and it stated that:
Air skill - aircraft unit commanders
Land skill - LCU unit commanders
Naval skill - TF commanders

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2350193

As in, you do not want to put the below officer in command of an LCU.

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LoBaron
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RE: the down side of making assumptions

Post by LoBaron »

Good post, and the info comes from very knowledgable guys.
Might as well take it for granted on most instances. Which answers one
of my questions in another thread, thanks for referring to the link Knyvet!

Still, don´t underestimate that success in certain areas does not only require actual
combat. So, a DB squad might need to sight a target, ID a target, pass a check to
attack a target and so on.
So ther just MIGHT be some dice rolls that are favoured by a commander with good nav skill,
but I am happy to be proven wrong if anybody knows better.
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Knyvet
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RE: the down side of making assumptions

Post by Knyvet »

I think you are 100% correct with reference to an individual pilot's mission skills, which is a seperate info screen (it is weird, however, that some people have noted an air unit's commander may be a desk jockey and not on the pilot roster).

Thanks for responding and note that given your experience and your numerous helpful postings, I really appreciate it.
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LoBaron
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RE: the down side of making assumptions

Post by LoBaron »

BTW, sensational thread title. [;)]
Applies to many people here, including myself...
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Gunner98
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RE: the down side of making assumptions

Post by Gunner98 »

I have always thought that as well - that the Nav skill in an air commander assisted his unit in attacking ships. Similar to the Land skill in a naval commander indicated a good Amphib Boss. I could be totally wrong on this - wouldn't be the first time with this game. [;)] I think that the training level of the pilots in the unit is much more important though, so if they had high land ratings and low Nav ratings - well they wouldn't do so good on their first attack on ships..

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Knyvet
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RE: the down side of making assumptions

Post by Knyvet »

hmmm the plot thickens . . .

edit: sorry, only one has Air as his worst skill, but a few have skill in Naval or Land that is higher than Air.

My guess is this reflects historical assignment (i.e., best suited for commanding an Air unit because that is what he did during the war).

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Mike Solli
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RE: the down side of making assumptions

Post by Mike Solli »

Just because someone is an air group commander doesn't mean he's necessarily good at it. [;)]
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Alfred
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RE: the down side of making assumptions

Post by Alfred »

ORIGINAL: Knyvet

hmmm the plot thickens . . .

edit: sorry, only one has Air as his worst skill, but a few have skill in Naval or Land that is higher than Air.

My guess is this reflects historical assignment (i.e., best suited for commanding an Air unit because that is what he did during the war).

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They are designated as best suited for commanding an Air Unit because they are only available to be assigned to an Air Unit. they can't be assigned to command an infantry division or a naval Task Force etc. Note, the recommended assignment does not specify which type of Air Unit they are best suited for.

Alfred
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Knyvet
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RE: the down side of making assumptions

Post by Knyvet »

Alfred,

Thanks, that goes toward the point of the thread and the link I stumbled upon that is provided in a post above indicating the following:

i.e., the Land and Naval skills of a Unit Commander assigned to an Air Unit of any type are 100% irrelevent.
i.e., the Air and Naval skills of a Unit Commander assigned to an infantry division are 100% irrelevent.
i.e., the Air and Land skills of a Unit Commander assigned to a TF are 100% irrelevent (except Air Combat TFs).

So, I'm confused by your comment - why would the type of air unit matter? If the type of Air Unit matters, how do you tell which Commander is better suited for which types of Air Units given that his Land and Naval Skills mean nothing when assigned to an Air Unit? The Air Unit's Commander Air Skill value is the same, regardless of type of Air Unit.

Of course, however, if the Air Unit Commander is also a flying pilot, his individual pilot mission and other skills will come into play when he flies - is that what you are referring to?

Thanks for helping, much appreciated and I frequently use info from your postings!
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RE: the down side of making assumptions

Post by Alfred »

There are basically two types of individuals available for assignment.

1. Unit Commanders.

These individuals are placed in command of;

(a) LCUs,

(b) naval task forces

(c) air units

(d) headquarters

For these individuals, the key ratings are their
  • leadership
  • inspiration
  • administration
  • aggresion

which as a matrix interact on the operations of the unit

2. Device Operators.

These individuals operate

(a) a single naval vessel

(b) a single aircraft (abstracted)

For these individuals, their key ratings are
  • naval combat
  • air combat
  • and all the various pilot skills

Their ratings impact only on how they handle their individual device; they do not affect how other operators handle their device within the unit.

3. Dual Candidates.

In some instances an individual can be a candidate for both command of a unit and operator of a device. For example, in some air units the unit commander is also a pilot. For naval task forces, the operator of the flagship can be the default unit commander. In these instances, the individual needs to have both types of ratings, the key ones being dependent on which role they have.

4. Program Recommendations.

Only when the player is investigating changing unit commanders is a generic recommendation made eg
  • best leading a surface combat task force
  • best leading a rear area land unit

This program recommendation is made on the basis of the key matrix ratings of leadership, inspiration, administration and aggresion. Significantly from the program point of view, this advice is only meaningful for land and sea units as their employment is fairly standardised based on class type. Air units are different as a fighter or bomber squadron (to just mention two of the different class types) could be equally employed on the frontline or in a safe backwater.

It is really up to the player to determine whether he wants a squadron whose commander has a low inspiration rating to be at the frontline, with the consequent risks to unit morale if engaged in heavy combat, on the basis of the overall matrix, or whether the danger to morale is such that the unit is best employed away from likely combat.

Alfred
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