The Power of Inexperience / GreyJoy(A)-Rader(J)

[paullus99]

Grey - given the state of his airpower at the moment, why don't you raid Rabaul? If you commit everything (which would be very unexpected), you could seriously cripple his air and seapower in the area?

[GreyJoy]

Cause he has 350 fighters at Bouganville, along with 230 bombers, plus 200 fighters and 150 bombers at Rabaul...plus the full KB that will probably react... and not a single ship is disbanded in port at Rabaul since our last visit 9 months ago...

my CVs will surely find their death...too many targets mean a possible disaster imho...and my CAP will never be so strong to be able to counter 1000 fighters on escort duties...among them Georges, Franks and Ki-100s... it would not be wise imho... too risky

[paullus99]

Perhaps a pump-fake is in order here - get him to jump in one direction while you smash him from the other. He's getting a bit cocky, with his ability to flood an area of operations with fighters / bombers and troops. I would seriously consider getting him to start committing to one area, then hit him in another before he can react.

I still think Rabaul is a good target, if you can get him focused in another direction.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

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I have had this problem .. but moving one/two hex(es) at a time when it is important helps give the program some direction. So when specific waypoints are required I move to the waypoint .. WitPTracker tells me destination is reached .. then I set the next waypoint ... just a thought ..

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

A day that could have meant the end of the japanese CA supremacy...ended up with a minor japanese victory...[:(]

7% moonlight. You probably would have fared much better with two or three six or seven ship DD formations. BBs got no business in a night fight when there is no visibility. I am reluctant to risk cruisers either. Radar should be a factor in these affairs but it is not and you are going to get a close range fight every time. You are lucky he did not "lance" a couple of BBs.

You probably did the right thing though. Odds are he would have been delayed and your carriers would have hammered him regardless of your losses losses. Just an unlucky turn.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

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It looks like radar's troops are sallying forth to play.

[Crackaces]

"His CAs ended up by the end of the day at 7 hexes from my CVs...but they were under heavy showers and we didn't launch"

I find this to be a huge difference between the IJN pilots early and USN thus far .. the IJN, at least when they have elite pilots, seem to launch anytime asked while the USN seem to be subject to the die rolls ..especally at maximum range ..

Ahhhh the super dupper IJ ..[&o]

One thing for comment .. does Scenrario #2 dictate a more strategic use of submarines? That is the imparitive interdiction of cargo lanes rather than interdicition of capitol ships and scouting -- since the IJ can manufacture so much stuff given supplies and resources?

[Erkki]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

"His CAs ended up by the end of the day at 7 hexes from my CVs...but they were under heavy showers and we didn't launch"

I find this to be a huge difference between the IJN pilots early and USN thus far .. the IJN, at least when they have elite pilots, seem to launch anytime asked while the USN seem to be subject to the die rolls ..especally at maximum range ..

Ahhhh the super dupper IJ ..[&o]

One thing for comment .. does Scenrario #2 dictate a more strategic use of submarines? That is the imparitive interdiction of cargo lanes rather than interdicition of capitol ships and scouting -- since the IJ can manufacture so much stuff given supplies and resources?

Can you please, please tell that to my KB pilots? [;)][:D]

GreyJoy - congrats, another IJN CA down! Furutaka was one of the 4 least of them but still a dangereous ship. You'd most probably have done better without the BBs and Rader's TFs are oversize again especially as he knew it would be a night battle.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: Erkki

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

"His CAs ended up by the end of the day at 7 hexes from my CVs...but they were under heavy showers and we didn't launch"

I find this to be a huge difference between the IJN pilots early and USN thus far .. the IJN, at least when they have elite pilots, seem to launch anytime asked while the USN seem to be subject to the die rolls ..especally at maximum range ..

Ahhhh the super dupper IJ ..[&o]

One thing for comment .. does Scenrario #2 dictate a more strategic use of submarines? That is the imparitive interdiction of cargo lanes rather than interdicition of capitol ships and scouting -- since the IJ can manufacture so much stuff given supplies and resources?

Can you please, please tell that to my KB pilots? [;)][:D]

GreyJoy - congrats, another IJN CA down! Furutaka was one of the 4 least of them but still a dangereous ship. You'd most probably have done better without the BBs and Rader's TFs are oversize again especially as he knew it would be a night battle.

Ya GreyJoy it looks like things are moving your way !!!

.. I edited my post because it was only partly cloudy at the target and raining over the KB .. I will wait until a nice full weather situation to demonstrate my point ..[;)]

[GreyJoy]

Yes, the moonlight was on his favour...but surprise was on my side...he didn't see me coming...my ships were unspotted...it was a perfect ambush...just a couple of BB hits and the whole battle could have gone in another way...anyway, we are getting better...let's say i lost 2 cruisers for 1 of his CAs and 2 DDs (probably 3)...not that bad anyway...

How many Jakes can a jap CA carry? cause 6 Jakes destroyed on the ground seems a lot....

Dec 1, 2 1943

Today was another japanese victory...
Our CVs were still covering Milne Bay, sitting 2 hexes south of it...he sent Franks and Georges on sweep from Rabaul and he achieved something more than a 1-1 kill ratio...my CV Hellcats performed vert badly, while the Corsairs and P-47s based at Milne did well!
We lost 12 pilots KIA and 20 WIA...but i bet he lost more than that...

I just discovered that my VRF squadrons are able to perform their missions!!!! 110 more fighters are immediately based at TLT...waiting for the Munda struggle...

PM will soon be a level 9 AF...then we could base all our 4Es there...and with Buna in our hands (i think in less than a month Buna will be ours) southern NG will become a pain in his back! He keeps on reinforcing Salamua, Lae and Finshtafen...while he's clearly evacuating everything south of Shortland...he's using his air assets to evacuate and i cannot stop him...not north of Rekata...

In India yes...it seems he's coming out of Multan...my tanks keep on moving strangely...now they stopped all of a sudden...don't understand why...i need them behind the river ASAP!...

Now my CVs will move back to Ndeni to refill their hellcats squadrons...while my other 2 CLs damaged during the last naval battle of Milne Bay are in good conditions and should be able to be back on the line within a month...

Thinking about what Paullus said...i think we can try with a feint operation in southern Marshalls in order to drive his attention away from Rabaul...

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

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I have had this problem .. but moving one/two hex(es) at a time when it is important helps give the program some direction. So when specific waypoints are required I move to the waypoint .. WitPTracker tells me destination is reached .. then I set the next waypoint ... just a thought ..

There were no waypoints...just moving from the northern Hex to one hex south east...instead they moved east...[&:]

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Erkki

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: ADB123

Looking at those air losses, I'm a bit "suspicious"...

Did you guys change sides and not tell us? [;)] [:D]

Seriously, it's astounding how well you are playing now, and in contrast, how poorly Radar is playing now. You have adjusted to the Game very well, and Radar seems to be making more and more mistakes as the game progresses.

I think you underestimate Rader who in spite of some tactical mistakes still holds a very big advantage. He has eliminated China from the war which is "very big" in my book and holds a stranglehold on India that GJ will not break for some time to come. It is 10/43 in the game and Rader hold a virtual lock on all industry and oil in Asia. His economy is booming, there is no threat to his interior shipping lanes or oil supplies. His capital ships remain untouched and he has so far held GJ to a one front counter offensive. It seems like madness but yet I am beginning to see a method to his madness. I think his grand strategy has been near perfect so far.

I am not a JfB so I will have to let others chime in who know the Japanese side better but to me, for Japan the whole deal is about taking and holding resources as long as possible. It seems to me that Rader has about "run the table" here. And it looks to be some time before GJ will get a crack at taking those resources back.

Agreed. While Rader is wasting ridiculous numbers of planes and pilots to (often at least seemingly) little gain, he just might be able to do that with his current resources and available oil and HI. We must also remember the pilot pools available to Japanese in Scen 2 and that each pilot pulled from replacement pool reduces the HI cost... Looking at the planes hes using, he apparently has done little to no R&D on early and mid war planes. But he just introduced Ki-100 - 3/45 plane! From the looks of it Rader has and is planning to fight the war well into 1945 using KB with A7M Reppus and Army Ki-84, Ki-83, J7W, perhaps even jets.

Jets?...gosh...[X(]...

Yes, however i do see the logic in his strategy...it's almost 44 and we're very far away from his inner perimeter...and, despite our attempts, we aren't able to break his navy nor his air force...he remains strong in every aspect...and he's very very cautious with his KB...since when i upgraded to hellcats he has kept his CVs well back his front lines, always behind a courtain of hundreds of LBA fighters and bombers...

However, i still believe in the final victory...for sure the game will last till 1945/46...but i swallowed this since when i lost India

[GreyJoy]

I have 3 NZ Bde prepped for Terapo (western coast of NG, north of PM)...still don't know if it's worth taking it... i'm pretty sure the reinforcements sent by Rader to NG are enough to keep me at bay once reached Buna...i count 80,000 troops between Lae, Salamua, Nzareb and Finishtafen...and pretty sure at least the 1st Guards Div and 2 Infantry regiments are there...in a jungle terrain, with lots of forts it will be nearly impossible to dislodge them... I will press forward anyway...with PM at AF lvl 9 i should be able to gain the controll of the skies of NG pretty fast... and with the air support i will probably be able to make him run out of supplies...

However this new japanese defensive disposition forces me to look somewhere else...
N-O Oz is ready for some major operation...i'm just waiting for a big supply and fuel convoy from CT to Perth in order to start sending troops and a/c to Exmouth and Port Heldland.

...thinking about the Gilberts/Marshalls feint operation...

...but first i need to get to Munda...as always i need to get in and out very fast...and get in unseen... think it will take 4 days from now... Rekata Bay will be AF lvl 6 by then and i'll be able to place there 300 more fighters flying LRCAP over my invasion fleet...with the 100 fighters of the CVEs and the CVs cover aid...if i'm fast as usual...i should get in and out without encountering his dreaded KB...

[House Stark]

Greyjoy, you supposedly have some extremely long range recons. What sort of air forces does he keep around his main oil sources, such as Soerabaja and Palembang? I see you have a house rule about city bombing, but could your carrier forces do damage at 20,000 ft? If you at some point in the near future decide you won't need your carriers at the front for a month, this seems the only way you might do economic damage to him. Either by city attacking Palembang with hundreds of aircraft, or trying to nail some the port when a tanker TF is present. His Helens might ruin your subs, but with two day turns could your carriers "warp" into range west of Sumatra and strike, and then retreat before his LBA can catch up? It would probably be risky, and I'm not experienced enough to know if it could work. But one thing's for sure: Rader's strategy relies on masses of aircraft, so as soon as you do put a dent in his resource and fuel collection he's going to collapse faster or have to radically revamp his airframe usage strategy.

[jmalter]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
I just discovered that my VRF squadrons are able to perform their missions!!!!

yes, US VR (training) sqns can operate from CVEs, the trick is to keep their size down. Since the normal size is 48, split them into 3 sub-groups of 16, keeping 1 or 2 at a rear base. ya gotta keep the # of air-frames embarked on the CVE out of the red, else the planes won't fly missions (though they will fly-off to replace carrier losses, if they're in range & in a ReplTF).

ETA (edited to add):
poor performance of your SurfTF in the MilneBay night-fight (29 Nov) might have been caused by your mix of ships. you had BB, CA & CL in that TF, all w/ different gun capabilities. Nemo has posted (in this AAR, iirc) that this kind of mix prevents the TF from performing well. that one shouldn't include CL in a BB/CA TF, or vice-versa. Nemo's point was, organize SurTFs by grouping ships of similar max-gunfire range together, & avoid grouping ships w/ wildly dissimilar ranges. of course this don't apply to the escorting DDs, which you must include regardless, but i noticed that the BBs didn't get into the fight at all.

mebbe your were short on DDs when you put the TF together, but i think you'd've done better by leaving the CLs out of this TF.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: House Stark

Greyjoy, you supposedly have some extremely long range recons. What sort of air forces does he keep around his main oil sources, such as Soerabaja and Palembang? I see you have a house rule about city bombing, but could your carrier forces do damage at 20,000 ft? If you at some point in the near future decide you won't need your carriers at the front for a month, this seems the only way you might do economic damage to him. Either by city attacking Palembang with hundreds of aircraft, or trying to nail some the port when a tanker TF is present. His Helens might ruin your subs, but with two day turns could your carriers "warp" into range west of Sumatra and strike, and then retreat before his LBA can catch up? It would probably be risky, and I'm not experienced enough to know if it could work. But one thing's for sure: Rader's strategy relies on masses of aircraft, so as soon as you do put a dent in his resource and fuel collection he's going to collapse faster or have to radically revamp his airframe usage strategy.

Hi mate,

sincerly i don't know...i've been thinking about it for ages now... a raid against Palembang... but at the moment my CVs are needed at the front...untill i make him sniff them always behind the courtains, he remains honest with his KB...if he understands they aren't there anymore he could start becoming bold again with his CVs...

However now that PM has grown up to level 9 AF, things will heat up in SWPAC...so probably i'll try to use my CVs for something sneaky...let's see...

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: jmalter

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
I just discovered that my VRF squadrons are able to perform their missions!!!!

yes, US VR (training) sqns can operate from CVEs, the trick is to keep their size down. Since the normal size is 48, split them into 3 sub-groups of 16, keeping 1 or 2 at a rear base. ya gotta keep the # of air-frames embarked on the CVE out of the red, else the planes won't fly missions (though they will fly-off to replace carrier losses, if they're in range & in a ReplTF).

ETA (edited to add):
poor performance of your SurfTF in the MilneBay night-fight (29 Nov) might have been caused by your mix of ships. you had BB, CA & CL in that TF, all w/ different gun capabilities. Nemo has posted (in this AAR, iirc) that this kind of mix prevents the TF from performing well. that one shouldn't include CL in a BB/CA TF, or vice-versa. Nemo's point was, organize SurTFs by grouping ships of similar max-gunfire range together, & avoid grouping ships w/ wildly dissimilar ranges. of course this don't apply to the escorting DDs, which you must include regardless, but i noticed that the BBs didn't get into the fight at all.

mebbe your were short on DDs when you put the TF together, but i think you'd've done better by leaving the CLs out of this TF.

I had read from multiple sources that the replenishment groups weren't unable to operate (neither on Land nor on flight deck) regardless the fact that the CVE to whom they belonged was overcrowded or not... discovered i was wrong [:)]

About our performance at Milne Bay... i sincerly thought when building up' SCTFs the thing you had to keep in mind was speed of the ships... never thought about "gun cababilities"...[X(] Good to know!
But a SCTF composed only of CLs and DDs would have badly lost against his CAs...he has 20cm guns...while we our CLs only have the small 6inches... that's why i liked the idea of having multiple classes, so that every range of gunnery was well covered...was wrong again...good to know [;)]
Anyway, when i sent my CLs against his CAs the result hadn't been that good...i'll try something different[;)]

Once again...thanks!

[GreyJoy]

Dec  3 and 4 1943
 
The KB remains 1 hex south of Rabaul, while no more sweeps are conducted against Milne Bay...
While PM becomes a level 9 AF, our P-47s swept Salamua, cleaning the skies from 15 zeros....the 4Es arrived in the afternoon and smashed the base (now Buna, Lae and Salamua are closed).
Our Aus divisions already marched 18 miles...yes, there's something wrong on the Owen Stanley mountains...
 
Our Tanks in India managed to get safely behind the river...his units aren't moving anymore outside of Multan ...
while our indian 4Es smashed an isolated base between Jodpur and Multan...hope to burn some of his supplies that flow to Multan...
 
Nothing much else to report...
 
Munda operation should start next turn...

[jmalter]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
About our performance at Milne Bay... i sincerly thought when building up' SCTFs the thing you had to keep in mind was speed of the ships... never thought about "gun cababilities"...[X(] Good to know!
But a SCTF composed only of CLs and DDs would have badly lost against his CAs...he has 20cm guns...while we our CLs only have the small 6inches... that's why i liked the idea of having multiple classes, so that every range of gunnery was well covered...was wrong again...good to know [;)]
Anyway, when i sent my CLs against his CAs the result hadn't been that good...i'll try something different[;)]

Once again...thanks!

sure & compatible speed is important, that's why oldBBs should stick w/ AmphTFs for gun support, or mebbe w/ BombTFs. i'm working w/ my usual fail-memory, but iirc Nemo was on about checking the gunner-ships in a SurfTF for similar max-range, & that a 16" BB would work well w/ an 8" CA, but 6" & 5" CLs didn't mix well w/ either, b/c their guns' max-range was much less, & that a mixed-range SurfTF didn't perform well. dunno if Nemo is lurking this thread, i don't want to mis-represent what he said, mebbe you could PM him for a link to his post where he discussed the issue. as best i recall, you've got to look at the ships database to find the range info.

also, ships w/ the latest radar upgrade should work together, methinks a non-upgraded ship in combo w/ a modernized ship gives the enemy an advantage in a firefight.

[Itdepends]

Where in the manual does it say how far you can overstack a carrier before flight ops are impacted? I assumed it was 110% as per the recovery of aircraft following the loss of a parent carrier.