"Out of pilot slots"

[TulliusDetritus]

Alrite, hmm, on the past I could get many pilots (or at least I am pretty certain about this). I am thinking about the game before the many betas (provided by Michaelm).

I am starting another campaign. I fill ALL the on map air units with pilots. The Chinese included. But after filling half the Chinese air force an "out of pilot slots" message appears. I am not allowed to enlist more vict... er volunteers.

When I check the pilot replacements menu thing, yes, the Chinese have indeed ZERO replacements. Still I am pretty certain you could enlist as many guys as you wanted: terrible ratings, obviously: guys you trick in the street to join the war [:D]

So was this changed and now you cannot get more guys? Could someone please clear this one?

I'm using Da Big Babes mod AND I created some new air units via the editor (training groups, much needed). WAD, bug or I created a big mess when I touched the editor?

Thanks in advance [:)]

[wdolson]

I think the feature of drawing pilots with no training is not there anymore.  If you wait a month the pilot pool will have pilots again.

Bill

[Sredni]

aww lol. I loved those pilots. They're the best pilots in the game for training up.

[michaelm75au]

No replacements. No pilots.

There is no freebie pilots when you run out of pilots anymore as there was in WITP.

This was shortcircuting the new pilot system.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

No replacements. No pilots.

There is no freebie pilots when you run out of pilots anymore as there was in WITP.

This was shortcircuting the new pilot system.

Michael, could you point out where this change was made in the various beta or official patch notes? I can't find any reference to it.

I get tied in knots talking about the various pots where pilots reside, so can you confirm that this feature you're discussing above means that when there are no pilots in the Replacement column on the pilot management screen under the 'I' button on the task bar, that no pilot in the 12-month pipeline will be pulled into the air unit? That the air unit, and all others needing pilots, will have to wait until the next month to get a body? I don't consider pipeline trianees to be "freebies"; they're already on the board. A "freebie" would be a pilot without one day of experience pulled into a unit.

The Japanese historically used lots and lots of pilots with less than a year of trianing at the end of the war, especially for kamis. If the change you speak of means the training pipeline is walled off from access this is a pretty big thing for late-war Japanese play given how steep daily losses can be in 1945-46.

[inqistor]

It should now (in beta) work exactly as manual says,
so pilots are taken from pool, and when it is empty, from last available trainee pipeline slot. When that is also empty, no more freebie pilots.

In latest official patch they were not taken from trainee pool. As soon as pools were empty they were endlessly generated "from the air" with minimum experience.

[Sardaukar]

I like this change. No more "free pilots". And should help a bit with running out of pilot slots too.

[bk19@mweb.co.za]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
A "freebie" would be a pilot without one day of experience pulled into a unit.

More like cannon fodder as he sure as hell won't be able to fly a kite let alone an aircraft.
Then again... maybe he could be a wing walker....

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: inqistor

It should now (in beta) work exactly as manual says,
so pilots are taken from pool, and when it is empty, from last available trainee pipeline slot. When that is also empty, no more freebie pilots.

In latest official patch they were not taken from trainee pool. As soon as pools were empty they were endlessly generated "from the air" with minimum experience.

By "manual" I assume you mean Section 16.3.

My difficulty in discussing pilots is always that different people use differnet words for the same things. "Pool" is the best example. I like "pipeline" because "pool" to me means "trained and ready." Michael used the word "replacements" ijn his post, whcih could mean that column in the pilot management screen (which excludes the pipeline), or every pilot in the game not sitting in a plane, or something in between.

I'll trust you on the last official patch change. I have to confess that I find those release notes so cryptic that they often raise more questions than they answer. If the last official patch did "break" Section 16.3 that's a major FUBAR for the Japanese.

Thanks for the clarification.

[obvert]

Is there a way to know how many pilots there are available for each month then? And for the entire game?

I'm a bit confused by this as well, because it seems Manpower is a useless feature then. Isn't Manpower supposed to represent how many rooks you can assign to any given unit, whether it be army or navy? If you have high Manpower then you should never run out of pilots with no training, right?

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: obvert

Is there a way to know how many pilots there are available for each month then? And for the entire game?

I'm a bit confused by this as well, because it seems Manpower is a useless feature then. Isn't Manpower supposed to represent how many rooks you can assign to any given unit, whether it be army or navy? If you have high Manpower then you should never run out of pilots with no training, right?

I don't think Manpower plays into pilots at all. It's part of the produciton system. See Section 13.2.1. Mapower points made by manpower centers flow to the armaments system to make devices. Squads are just another kind of device. But to my knowledge pilots are not. They're outsdie the device system.

The pipeline is laid out in 3-month chunks in the pilot management screen. I assume that each month of the three has an equal number of pilots in it. The chunks can be of different sizes though. I don't know where or if the number of trainees entering the pipeline in the future is detailed.

Edit: it's probably in Tracker, but I've never looked. The Allies get more pilots than they'll ever have planes for, so I never worry about the pipeline.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: obvert

Is there a way to know how many pilots there are available for each month then? And for the entire game?

I'm a bit confused by this as well, because it seems Manpower is a useless feature then. Isn't Manpower supposed to represent how many rooks you can assign to any given unit, whether it be army or navy? If you have high Manpower then you should never run out of pilots with no training, right?

I don't think Manpower plays into pilots at all. It's part of the produciton system. See Section 13.2.1. Mapower points made by manpower centers flow to the armaments system to make devices. Squads are just another kind of device. But to my knowledge pilots are not. They're outsdie the device system.

The pipeline is laid out in 3-month chunks in the pilot management screen. I assume that each month of the three has an equal number of pilots in it. The chunks can be of different sizes though. I don't know where or if the number of trainees entering the pipeline in the future is detailed.

Edit: it's probably in Tracker, but I've never looked. The Allies get more pilots than they'll ever have planes for, so I never worry about the pipeline.

The Moose is correct. Manpower centres have no connection with the generation of trainee pilots.

Go to the "Pilots Replacement" screen (in Info section) and under the "Replacement" column is listed the monthly intake of trainees to the trainee pipeline.

There is a great variety amonst the Allied nations in the number of monthly trainees entering the pipeline.

Alfred

[obvert]

Bulwinkle was bringing up points about the japanese late war capabilities. If there is a cap on pilots, what is it?

In section 16.3 of the manual it states pilots can be taken from the Pilot Trainee Pool into groups with only partial training skill. I'm just wondering if this has been changed.

Trained Pilot Replacement pool – These Pilots are new FULLY trained
replacements that have not been detailed to an operational unit

»» Trainee Pilot pool – These Pilots are in training. They are subject to a training
program of 12 months, but can be drawn on PRIOR to their completing
training and thus entering an operational unit at some less than nominal EXP
level. This depends on what “class” or month they are in when requested.

Bringing up manpower was simply a way to state that for the Japanese, if manpower is still available for all other armed forces, why would it not be for the air forces?

From section 13.2.1.3 of the manual:

Manpower – This raw material is a representation of the portion of your nationality‘s population
that can be drafted into their armed forces or used to expand production.

[inqistor]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I'll trust you on the last official patch change. I have to confess that I find those release notes so cryptic that they often raise more questions than they answer. If the last official patch did "break" Section 16.3 that's a major FUBAR for the Japanese.

Well, I have not tested in with previous patches (or unpatched), but I actually think, that it never worked as intended. Simply no one tested it, because for Japan to run out of pilots will take well into 1944 at earliest. It is actually pretty easy to test for Allies, as there should be NO extra Dutch/PI pilots.

ORIGINAL: obvert

Is there a way to know how many pilots there are available for each month then? And for the entire game?

I'm a bit confused by this as well, because it seems Manpower is a useless feature then. Isn't Manpower supposed to represent how many rooks you can assign to any given unit, whether it be army or navy? If you have high Manpower then you should never run out of pilots with no training, right?

Just take a look at this screen. in "Added" column you see how much pilots you got last month. In "Replacement" how much is added to "schools" every month, but this value tends to rise every year.
Problem with manpower is that it never ends, and actually it is Allies, who should have real problem with it in late 1944.

I am not however aware on any US trouble with pilots training. On Japanese side it was because they were cut from AVGAS, and there was not enough for training, not any shortage of recruits (heck, they used pilot candidates to drive suicide boats).

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: obvert

Bulwinkle was bringing up points about the japanese late war capabilities. If there is a cap on pilots, what is it?

At the risk of putting out bad info, you should check recent threads yourself, or ask in the Tech section. I believe there has been duscussion in the past two months or so about the total number of pilots overrunning the table size for pilots. Again FROM MEMORY I believe I have seen michaelm discussing a 50,000 name limit. I would assume that is a DB issue with the defined table size, or RAM, or some other mechanical/code constraint. I also believe I have read discussion, perhaps by him, on inserting code in the betas to scrub out KIA and (?) MIA names to free up room to put more names into active use. Since I don't play the Japanese I have not paid much attention to those posts. A read of the beta patch thread in the Tech sub-forum might give some answers on total possible size of the pilot universe.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: obvert

Bulwinkle was bringing up points about the japanese late war capabilities. If there is a cap on pilots, what is it?

At the risk of putting out bad info, you should check recent threads yourself, or ask in the Tech section. I believe there has been duscussion in the past two months or so about the total number of pilots overrunning the table size for pilots. Again FROM MEMORY I believe I have seen michaelm discussing a 50,000 name limit. I would assume that is a DB issue with the defined table size, or RAM, or some other mechanical/code constraint. I also believe I have read discussion, perhaps by him, on inserting code in the betas to scrub out KIA and (?) MIA names to free up room to put more names into active use. Since I don't play the Japanese I have not paid much attention to those posts. A read of the beta patch thread in the Tech sub-forum might give some answers on total possible size of the pilot universe.

_____________________________

The Moose

Thanks. I posted there as well, but at last check there wasn't a direct response. So much info, so little time for actually playing the game. I wish the notes on Tech changes for the betas were a bit less cryptic, but there is so mcuh unexplained about this game.

As I've just begun a PBEM playing Japan I want to make sure we don't upgrade to a beta that forces me to run out of pilots beofre the game is finished.

[Dan Nichols]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: obvert

Bulwinkle was bringing up points about the japanese late war capabilities. If there is a cap on pilots, what is it?

At the risk of putting out bad info, you should check recent threads yourself, or ask in the Tech section. I believe there has been duscussion in the past two months or so about the total number of pilots overrunning the table size for pilots. Again FROM MEMORY I believe I have seen michaelm discussing a 50,000 name limit. I would assume that is a DB issue with the defined table size, or RAM, or some other mechanical/code constraint. I also believe I have read discussion, perhaps by him, on inserting code in the betas to scrub out KIA and (?) MIA names to free up room to put more names into active use. Since I don't play the Japanese I have not paid much attention to those posts. A read of the beta patch thread in the Tech sub-forum might give some answers on total possible size of the pilot universe.

_____________________________

The Moose

Thanks. I posted there as well, but at last check there wasn't a direct response. So much info, so little time for actually playing the game. I wish the notes on Tech changes for the betas were a bit less cryptic, but there is so mcuh unexplained about this game.

As I've just begun a PBEM playing Japan I want to make sure we don't upgrade to a beta that forces me to run out of pilots beofre the game is finished.

We're playing scenario 2, you will not run out of pilots, you will have too many as far as I can tell.

[obvert]

We're playing scenario 2, you will not run out of pilots, you will have too many as far as I can tell.

Thanks Dan. Overall I'm sure I'll have too many, but somewhere it was said that MichaelM had changed the system so that you could no longer pull from the trainee pilot pool when you run out in the replacement pool. As I've never been there before, (my test game just in 43 still), I just wanted to make sure this wouldn't be a problem.

I'm not planning on losing 500 planes a week, a la Rader, but yuo never know over a short period. I should probably just worry about the rest of 42. [:)]