The struggle against Armament factories II

[stone10]

stage 2: I begin to retreat in good order.

2nd Army will go home by train

[stone10]

units in the center will retreat slowly

[stone10]

4th and 9th Army will go home by train too. 2&3 Pz Gp have to walk home.

[stone10]

1 or 2 Corps of 6th Army will use train also. The rest of the AGS have to walk...

[stone10]

turn 17: the Soviets finally realize that the Wehrmacht are going back to Berlin... but it's too late.

[krupp_88mm]

what is this? i dont even...

you crazy lol i gotta see how this goes

[Flaviusx]

...

This is just a gift to the Soviet Union, you know. The only downside here from their standpoint will be a lack of guards. In every other respect, you're pretty much throwing away the game.

[Q-Ball]

I am interested to see how this plays out, because a few have suggested this strategy. I wouldn't do it, but I want to hang around and see what happens.

If I am the Russian player, I feel good about my Manpower situation; although you won't see the effects for awhile, after mid-1942, he'll be getting big Manpower boosts from all that re-captured territory. Without Blizzard losses, the Red Army should swell to a very large size.

As Russians, I would move all the way to the border, but I would really look to fortify the Dnepr line, and make tough to crack come summer.

One thing is that the Russians will very quickly outrun their supplies; without an FBD unit, they will struggle to eat once they reach the Dnepr.

[Flaviusx]

I'd just move to the Dnper, myself. And dig in. And laugh as I reach 7.5 million by June of 42, with all units topped off. It's going to take all summer for the German to push past that position...if ever.

If he turtles instead, he's doing it from a position I don't need to be at until autumn of 1943.

[stone10]

quick update: It is snow turn right now and most of my units are home. I got 50k men disabled while retreating.

I thought a lot about before do this von robin thing. I've considered all relevant factors I could think.

here is my answer to some of the readers' question:

manpower? from my experience vs. the AI, the Soviets has no problem field an Army of more than 6 million men. He will have more man by 42, but so do I.

what if he dig in? The Soviets can freely choose when to dig in during the winter. They have no porblem to build a impressive line of forts by June 42 with infantry corps. Or they could simply use carpet.


With countless units that have a moral of 85+, I'm quite confidence about my 42 campaign. Moreover, my opponent has no guard unit at all.
Anyways, we will see whether the von robin strategy work or not soon.

[Mike13z50]

What are you doing in Finland? Holding Leningrad and the choke point up north?

[stone10]

ORIGINAL: Mike13z50

What are you doing in Finland? Holding Leningrad and the choke point up north?

Yeah.

[stone10]

Leningrad




I left strong garrisons in Tallinn abd Odessa also

[stone10]

then we have von robin line contructed along the border

[Ketza]

Wow. This will be interesting.

[stone10]

In the center and South, my opponent stopped at Dnepr. In the north, there're some minor fightings near Leningrad.

turn 37, Feb. 26. 1942 OOB

[wmcalpine]

Wow,

Germans at 4 million! This will be an interesting Spring and Summer

Bill

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: stone10

then we have von robin line contructed along the border

Interesting experiment to say the least.

If I were playing Russian I would have breathed a hoge sigh of relief. 3.2M casualties by T14 = a crippled russian army and I would have gone for the kill. There would be too few Russians to mount a decent blizzard offensive and you would have had relatively few casualties as you could have afforded to put a lot of your forces in cities or back in the fatherland. You would then be seriously kicking ass in '42

[Balou]

stone10,

manpower? from my experience vs. the AI, the Soviets has no problem field an Army of more than 6 million men. He will have more man by 42, but so do I.

what if he dig in? The Soviets can freely choose when to dig in during the winter. They have no porblem to build a impressive line of forts by June 42 with infantry corps. Or they could simply use carpet.


With countless units that have a moral of 85+, I'm quite confidence about my 42 campaign. Moreover, my opponent has no guard unit at all.
Anyways, we will see whether the von robin strategy work or not soon.

What's the purpose of your - as you call it - "von Robin line" ?

1. Do you intend to stay there and wait ? Because its less than 45 hexes from Berlin and 1942, so plenty of time for the Sovs for a rather short distance.

2. Will you relauch Barbarossa? If so, what are the objectives ? Territory and VPs? Well, then you've lost a whole year. Destroying the Red Army with your 4 mio troops? He might have 8+ mio, zillions of tanks and artillery by 43, if he chooses to wait. I think you've lost the initiative, because it's now up to the Sovs when to restart. Even without guards in summer 42, from the moment you crash into each other huge numbers could become more important than decent experience, my impression from lots of AARs.

3. In 41, one of the most limiting factors for mob troops was rail supply. Barbarossa II wouldn't be much different, depending of how many rail lines have become "SU" in the meantime.

4. What's your plan if he simply keeps waiting, wherever that might be? Given the distance the frontlines are apart, it will take some time for both of you to make contact again ("all quiet on the eastern front")

5. I hope both of you won't stop this AAR too soon.

[janh]

Balaou has some good points there. The others also, you kind of surrender the initiative with this, perhaps ultimately. A very interesting experiment, though -- sort of like eliminating any kind of human or political factors in your warfare conduct. Nobody at the home front getting unhappy about having had their sons lost for a voluntary retreat in the end ("a big Hamburger Hill").

It is most impressive to see a German Army at 4. Mio. I wonder whether you should have pushed it instead of retreating. By turn 11 you had a dream position for any German, basically taken Leningrad, Rostov, Kursk, Kharkov, Orel and you were knocking not only at the gates of Moscow, but also still made headway in the center towards Voroshilovgrad. In this situation the Germans definitely would have thrown in the kitchen sink to aim for a decisive defeat before New Years, by taking Moscow at all costs.
I don't know about the experience and decisions of your opponent, but you really made big progress from the start of Lvov to the end. At little cost, your army seemed to be in very good shape, unlike what the history teaches about the German Army during Typhoon and what one perhaps would expect for such a deep advance. Even though largely outdated, 3,500 tanks ready is a quite a number. So I think you would have stood a great chance to hold in winter as the Russian blizzard offensives and effects appear now a little weaker with 1.05l, and deliver another heavy blow from the present positions in summer 42. Or just turtle and defend like the IdahoNYer in his AAR. I think he is doing a great job with his flexible defense and use of German Reserves. Maybe keeping a save of this period and playing on a second game from that after this one would be a great comparison.

Anyway, great to see this strategy explored as well! Keep it going! Good luck!