The PERFECT WAR Mod

[kfsgo]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

kfsgo: Could you Post a screen shot of where you THINK to start the war in China? Even just a shot of China with a line going down through it for visual purposes might help bunches.

JPG, sorry, alternatives come out big enough to be a pain. Nanking nominally under Chinese control but contested and mostly ungarrisoned - the Japanese will have it in a day or two but will have to do some minesweeping to move ships further upriver, representing clearing of barrages. Jinan is in the last stages of another unpleasant urban battle. Gotta manufacture a delay somewhere, I guess. Canton I am still thinking about...I want to keep the Japanese out of it, but Hong Kong would have to be demilitarised or it'd turn into a submarine nest within a week of the war starting, and I'm not sure you can write that away. The yellow lines are the 'ideal' limits of navigability on the Yangtze; currently it only goes as far as Wuchang.

I am looking through Chinese economic resources at the moment. The original name of the screenshot was china_economicoption - you wouldn't think it, but in economic terms this and the stock start aren't too different - Wenchow alone makes up for more or less everything else. Hong Kong is again the issue - there's almost as much manpower there as there is in stock 'Occupied China' (38 v 41 - hell, there's only 81 in the rest of China, if I counted correctly) and it has about 60% of the industry of that area. I can see the industrial argument - Chinese businesses evacuating to 'neutral' territory - but I find the manpower concentration odd. None of them are particularly huge numbers in the context of the rest of Japan, anyway.

So - you can definitely release some land forces from China if needed. Theoretically the Chinese shouldn't be going anywhere in a big way for the first few months...

[John 3rd]

WOW! Am certainly not used to seeing a map like that. Think that Canton must be controlled to alleviate the potential threat of Hong Kong. Agree regarding the possibilities of that base being used for nastiness.

Just got done doing some work so let me put that here:

1. Pulled the 34th ID from China service and added it to 16th Army set to attack Hong Kong with 38th ID.
2. Pulled 90th Inf Reg from Manchuria and added it to 16th Army at Babeldoap prepping for Davao.
3. Moved about 8 AP from Home Islands to Samah to reflect the needed extra sealift (thanks Michael). Added some supply there also...
4. Created a new Air Flotilla (the 7th) in Canton, increased AF from 4 to 5, raised Forts from 1 to 3. kfsgo: Perhaps this reflects that it was recently taken or COULD be retaken by the Chinese. The Air Flotilla is attached to China Naval HQ and it has a Daitai and Chutai of Zero, a Chutai of Nells, and Chutai of Kates. Figure this is the IJN's Air presence in China to offset the planes of the AVG.

What do people think of the potential China map?

[DOCUP]

I would think that the Japanese would atleast take the hex next to Lang So as to have an overland supply route.

[kfsgo]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Think that Canton must be controlled to alleviate the potential threat of Hong Kong. Agree regarding the possibilities of that base being used for nastiness.

Well, I'm not sure. The one thing I haven't explored so far is adding new bases - I don't think you need to go all-out with that, but it's a situation that could be resolved with the addition of, say, Macau and Bao'an as bases - the Japanese have ship-to-shore teleporters for the first few months, after all. Canton itself is fairly irrelevant as a naval base absent control of HK; the motivation is really maintenance of the Canton-Wuhan railway as late as possible to enable shipping into China. Hardly critical, either way.

4. Created a new Air Flotilla (the 7th) in Canton, increased AF from 4 to 5, raised Forts from 1 to 3. kfsgo: Perhaps this reflects that it was recently taken or COULD be retaken by the Chinese. The Air Flotilla is attached to China Naval HQ and it has a Daitai and Chutai of Zero, a Chutai of Nells, and Chutai of Kates. Figure this is the IJN's Air presence in China to offset the planes of the AVG.

I don't see how that follows - if it's just been taken it's hardly going to be a larger, more heavily fortified base, especially since in reality it mostly seems to have been taken as a cheap grab after the local forces were removed for the defense of Wuhan.

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

I would think that the Japanese would atleast take the hex next to Lang So as to have an overland supply route.

Don't read too much into control of non-base hexes - a lot of the hex boundaries are a couple of pixels off so they tend to overfill. I have a map with most of them cleaned up (I've been using it to get a sense of where the different Chinese War Areas worked) but it wasn't worth going back and doing this one all over again.

[John 3rd]

If you don't think Canton is viable as a base for the Japanese to have at this point then OK. You've got China Sir. I will send an updated set of files so you can see what I've finished. Remember that there are units present for the taking of Hong Kong. If they need to go elsewhere let us know and we can discuss it on the Forum.

The Air Flotilla can go anywhere. Figure those Zeros helped to severely damage the CAF.

[oldman45]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

ORIGINAL: oldman45

In John's earlier post he talks about rebuilding those divisions, if I remember correctly it will take a bit of supply to do that. If Burma's supply is rebuilding troops, will there be enough supply on hand to do that. Your right about getting shipping into Rangoon, its almost impossible unless you want to run a convoy with carrier support. Even that runs the risk of losing ships with diminishing returns.

Remember that Indomitable and Hermes are available at Columbo Day ONE of the war!

I know, I lost them both trying to force a convoy through to Rangoon [;)]

[John 3rd]

COOL! (Sorry: I am, after all, a JFB)

[FatR]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

The question I have is who has priority next? FatR: Are you in a position to seriously work on the Fleet or should Kfsgo have the files to work on China while both you and I use the Forum Threads to iron out during the war choices and decisions?

I think I can work on the fleet slowly - Kfsgo's and mine spheres do not intersect, so he can do whatever he needs, while I'll restrict myself to changing ships and ship classes files only.

Also, a preliminary note about the air side... Unless devs are going to change night air combat model, I'm more and more inclined to think that either a mandatory houserule against 4Es on night attacks, except against Home Islands cities, or a nerf to their defensive armament is needed. In both of my games Japanese enjoy daylight parity or superiority at the moment, but suffer extreme A2A losses when combatting consequent night bomber raids. Literally to the point of airgroups being wiped out. For example, an extreme case:

One squadron of Liberators did that over two days, with minor help from other bombers.
Here I was forced to cover an outlying airfield (Ceilon) with fighters that had long ferry range, but Tojos and Zeros really die almost as easily, and Nicks eventually get wiped out by a persistent effort.

Of course, an ideal solution will be to penaltize bombers' defensive fire as much as fighter's fire is penaltized at night...

[FatR]

Speaking of aircraft again, a preliminary note.

Following planes are left without no engines (even counting attempted but not mass-produced alternatives) if the proposed concentration of engine design at Mitshubishi in 1939 is carried out:

Ki-43,Ki-44,Ki-45,Ki-48,Ki-49,Ki-94-II,J1N.

Of these at least Ki-43 and Ki-44 certainly need complete fuselage redesign and upscaling to accept larger alternative engines.

Ki-67 or equivalent is likely to be severely delayed until a next-gen engine is available.

Ki-84 technically has alternatives, either Ha-33 (used on flyable prototypes of Ki-116) or DB-601 derivatives (proto-84 used this, the project never left the blueprints stage). However, Ki-84 was primarily the successor to Ki-43, with simplicity of converting the production lines from the latter being one of the main considerations in its design. So if Ki-43 falls into oblivion, Ki-84 will follow.

Feel free to correct me if I forget anything.

On a somewhat brighter note, B6N and P1Y are issued reliable engines from the beginning. B6N is likely to appear on the frontlines earlier. Not sure about P1Y, though. One of the main problem with it was the Navy's brass not being sure if it is even needed, and it will only get worse if it will use the same engines as G4M.

[FatR]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Last work for the day is the counter move to the British Build-up in Malaya. Given excellent pre-war Japanese intelligence, they realize that Malaya will be more difficult so they move some of their starting ID around to reflect changes and potential issues:

1. 33rd ID starts at Battambang
2. 4th and 21st start in Samah

Fleet Modifications:
1. TF 14 (CL and 5DD) start at Truk so there is some naval presence there at start.
2. MASSIVE SS change along the lines of RA. Gone is the massive concentration around PH. Groups of 3-5 Japanese SS start at or near various locations (Palmyra, Johnston, West Coast, Java Sea, Malacca, Sulu Sea, etc...). A total of 39 Boats are shifted from their normal starting positions.

Enough for today. Got errands to run.

I strongly advise against doing any changes to the fleet disposition at the moment. Remember, lots of ships will be adeed, erased, rewritten... most of subs included. You'll need to redo this later.

Also, I believe we still lack most of needed art for the fleet. I can put up a list later, if there are volunteers. If there aren't, I'm willing to try learning how to draw shipsides. Can anyone recommed the best tool for that?

[Terminus]

Let's see the list.

[John 3rd]

OK. Good.

FatR and kfsgo: Do not do anything to your files. I have a little more work (like where the Canadians end up) and I can step back and let you guys work while I look at other things. Should have my work done on Monday and will then send the files. As long as you stay in your areas (China/Navy--Air) we should have no file issues.

Am excited to see more stuff get done!

[FatR]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Let's see the list.

Battleships: we have what we need, courtesy of JuanG's and his Enhanced mods.

Carriers: we probably have what we need, improved Shokaku class art can be taken from Scen 70. The only exception maybe is enlarged alternative Ryujo, which might have a bridge tower.

Heavy cruisers: no art for Niitaka-class CAs. Again, they should look like this:


1-st class DDs: we really need several pieces of art.

1)Modified Hatsuharu, with open mounts instead of enclosed turrets.
2)Modified Akizuki. Actually resembling Yugumos, but with three more modern turrets, probably resebling those on RL Akizuki class.
3)Modified Matsu/Tachibana. Semi-enclosed twin gun mounts on both bow and stern should be the most distinctive feature.

Turrets on Shiratsuyus, Asashios, Kageros and Yugumos should probably more resemble RL 127/40 turrets, but in a pinch we can use the old art.


As about 2-nd class DDs and light cruiser reconstructions - at the moment I'm PMing people whose alternatives from Russian forums heavily influenced my proposals if we can use their art. In case of a positive answer, I'll post a list with ship art appended.

[John 3rd]

FatR: I'll have the files sent to you and kfsgo today.

[John 3rd]

Files sent and now in the hands of our other good designers!

[kfsgo]

That may be pushing it a bit...

I am kind-of-sort-of mostly (but not entirely) 'done' with China. Work so far:

- NCPC (Beijing Govt) forces are larger than usual and actually vaguely competent; figure the Japanese have been nice to them, I guess.
- RGC (Nanjing Govt) forces are not all present at game start but trickle in through 1942; they're less competent than usual. I'm not sure how...I wouldn't let them near anything that isn't padded, personally.
- Japanese units are "redistributed"; 11th Army is at Nanjing and can yomp upriver if it wants to, 13th is loitering at Shanghai, 23rd is along the coast, 1st and 12th are up north. Shouldn't be any day 2 disasters for anyone, anyway. I moved the Tank/Mech Divs to Manchuria - they're a little silly, as a formation like that is really designed to whack Soviet equivalents; so, they're on the Russian border. Of course, the player can rail them down to China if the player wants to play that sort of game...
- Garrison requirements are up throughout China. It's difficult to be definite as to how this will impact things, but the Japanese will have to balance what they want to take versus what they can effectively garrison much more carefully than usual.
- There are new bases in a few locations to encourage armies to spread out a bit.
- Wuhan has gained a fair amount of industry (some new, some moved from Chungking) - there's certainly an incentive for Japan to try to take it. Shanghai has also gained some, though it starts off damaged.
- I haven't actually expanded the Chinese army much - there are a few new brigades, some tiny units designed to be irritating etc here and there but improvements are mostly in that they have a lower % of disabled devices overall.
- Exception to that - artillery - there are a fair bunch more 75mm guns kicking around, a few more 105mm pieces and also two new Rgts with Russian 122mm guns, though replacements for those don't show up until Dec.42 so probably best not used before that unless critically necessary.
- Chinese LCUs have been redistrubted and are now assigned to War Areas rather than Group Armies. Makes keeping track of everyone easier...I'll put up a map of where the zones are at some point.
- There are some 'river forts' with a few light (4in/12pdr/6pdr) CD guns along the Yangtze. Can't really simulate the river barrages properly, so it'll have to do.
- Bases along the upper Yangtze have gained small ports where appropriate. Requires pwhex edits before any ships can use them, of course...
- A significant proportion (~2/3rds) of the Chinese army is static - they never were big fans of the central govt telling them what to do, after all. New device 1339 'Provincial Militia' is replaced by device 1340 'KMT Cadres' at a rate of 3/month from April 1942. A large Chinese corps 'costs' about 5 cadres to activate, smaller units less. At that production rate ~60% of static units can be activated by 8/45 - the caveat is that the device isn't in any TOEs, so if the Japanese decide to take advantage of the units being static to destroy them they'll respawn mobile. A balancing act...it may work out and may not, we'll have to see.
- Red Army units have a small amount of intrinsic daily supply to allow them to get around in marginal-supply areas.
- Some Chinese units have collected bits of foreign equipment; units near the Indochina border have managed to acquire some French stuff, units on the road down from Alma-Ata have managed to acquire some Russian stuff, and there's assorted low-level kleptomania throughout the static provincial units. Once they're gone they're gone, though.

More later...

[John 3rd]

Sounds wild-and-crazy. Cannot wait to see more!

[John 3rd]

FatR: I have been thinking about mid-war Japanese aircraft and have several thoughts:

1. Do we go the route of RA with maximizing the A6 airframe?
2. Do we have the Japanese realize that the A6 cannot go much past the start of the war and the stake new production on the Jack (both land and carrier versions) with its arrival sometime in 1943?

In a 'perfect' situation what is the correct move?

Hmmm...

[FatR]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Files sent and now in the hands of our other good designers!

Got 'em. Thanks. Will continue gradually working on the fleet.

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
FatR: I have been thinking about mid-war Japanese aircraft and have several thoughts:

1. Do we go the route of RA with maximizing the A6 airframe?
2. Do we have the Japanese realize that the A6 cannot go much past the start of the war and the stake new production on the Jack (both land and carrier versions) with its arrival sometime in 1943?

In a 'perfect' situation what is the correct move?

My thoughts:

1)Jack is sort of a failed concept. I note that it might be underrated in the game, and that Allied test pilot rated captured Jacks fairly highly (surprisingly, even view from the cockpit apparently wasn't poor in practice). It was a failure from the production/reliability standpoint. The problem of fitting a Ha-32 engine into a fighter's body wasn't solved satisfyingly. Also, it directly competed with A6M, dragging both planes back.

2)Japanese simply did not have enough skilled aircraft designers. Failure to keep the number of competing projects under control aggravated this problem. USA really were the only other country with similar numbers of concurrently produced plane designs during WW II. For second half of the war Japan had from 5 to 7 single-engined fighter designs in production simultaneously, only 2 of which had any sort of compatibility. By comparison, USSR, Germany and Britain produced 2 major families of single-engined fighters each for most of the war (although Germans tried to rush several types of jets into production late in the war, as an act of desperation). In a world, where the Japanese aircraft industry is organized rationally, this dilution of brainpower has to go. To achieve this, two measures are possible.

3)First, parallel Army and Navy projects meant to fill the same tactical niches have to go. Second, companies should be encouraged to concentrate on developing planes in their particular non-intersecting niches. Ideally:
Mitsubishi - all-purpose radial engine fighters and 2E level bombers.
Nakakima - interceptor radial engine fighters, torpedo bombers, 4E level bombers.
Kawasaki - inline engine fighters, 2E fighters/fighterbombers
Aichi - divebombers (D4Y, despite its designation, was developed in cooperation with Aichi and in large part by the same team that made D3A).
Kawanishi - seaplanes and flying boats, as RL

More on particulars later...

[kfsgo]

ORIGINAL: FatR

Heavy cruisers: no art for Niitaka-class CAs. Again, they should look like this:

JuanG's #0559 ticks most of the boxes, though it's rather long - you could probably trim this by a few frames or even use it as-is.


Modifying existing assets is pretty easy:

1)Modified Hatsuharu, with open mounts instead of enclosed turrets.

#

2)Modified Akizuki. Actually resembling Yugumos, but with three more modern turrets, probably resebling those on RL Akizuki class.

=



#



If you do use this, change the 'center' 25mm weapon slot to 'forward' I guess - the extra funnel would get in the way.

3)Modified Matsu/Tachibana. Semi-enclosed twin gun mounts on both bow and stern should be the most distinctive feature.

I notice class 1517 has DCs firing forwards at the moment - probably not important, but looks odd.