Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v smokindave(Sov). 1.05 beta

[mmarquo]

"c. Requirement to build up to Fort Level 3 - Must be adjacent to an enemy hex, be an urban or city hex, or be in or adjacent to a fort unit. Once the level 3 is reached, the condition does not have to continue to be met to keep the level 3 fort.
d. Fort levels that have reached their maximum fort level for the hex may continue to build up to 10% towards the next fort level."


These statements from "V1.05.18 – September 6, 2011 · New Features and Rule Changes" seem to indicate that a level 3 fort can't grow to a level 4 fort, but can get to level 3 + 10%, not level 4 + 10%.

Am I mistaken?

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: Marquo

"c. Requirement to build up to Fort Level 3 - Must be adjacent to an enemy hex, be an urban or city hex, or be in or adjacent to a fort unit. Once the level 3 is reached, the condition does not have to continue to be met to keep the level 3 fort.
d. Fort levels that have reached their maximum fort level for the hex may continue to build up to 10% towards the next fort level."


These statements from "V1.05.18 – September 6, 2011 · New Features and Rule Changes" seem to indicate that a level 3 fort can't grow to a level 4 fort, but can get to level 3 + 10%, not level 4 + 10%.

Am I mistaken?

You are not mistaken, but the description in the readme isn't quite the way it's working in the game. Whether it's WADesigned, or not, it's not exactly WADescribed...[;)]

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

ORIGINAL: Marquo

Why don't you disband the fort unit when they are going to be on the frontline? The combat unit in the fortified hex still receives the fort level bonus and you don't lose the men/material associated with the fort unit?

Marquo

Once a hex has gone beyond level 3, 10%, that is 11+%, it will continue to grow to level 4, 10%, even without a fort in the hex. Likewise, for the adjacent hex benefit, and the initial breaking of the level 2 limit, as long as the hexes are at least level 2, 11%, they will go up to level 3, 10%.

If the TOEs of the forts is kept to 50%, then the loss of them is fairly inconsequential. Especially, if you've taken them off refit after their first turn of sucking replacements. Then, it's a question of how threatened the hexes are versus the cost of 1 AP to disband, and possibly 4 more AP to rebuild another at some point. In fluid situations, obviously, the threat to them is higher, but once a line settles in, it may may sense to accept a bit more risk in them on, or near, the frontlines.

Nice bit of info.

So once a level 3 is to 11%+ you can remove the fort and it will still grow to 4 as long as you have a unit in hex?

[Q-Ball]

T31: 1/15/42-BLIZZARD

My optimism of the last turn has abated somewhat; this turn, I am clearly pressed in some places. I think the Russians have moved more men up front, and they are stronger since the start of Blizzard, for sure!

East of Kursk, I have a particular danger point, where some infantry is threatened on the flanks, and I can't retreat fast enough to safety. This could be a serious problem, resulting in losing a unit or two.

The Russians are really focusing on the center of the line from Rhzev down to the Donbas.

North of that, in the Valdai Hills, he has seemingly halted. Same in the Donbas, and in the Crimean exit; no attacks, nothing.

The next couple turns figure to be tough, then I can start thinking about SNOW.

I may eat my words from the last post.....

Attack Counter:

This turn, it was 11-4. That's more total attacks than last turn, I think there are more Russians around suddenly. I wonder if B-G was savings some reserves, and just committed them.

TOTAL so far: 107-29.

Fort Zones:

I have all FORT ZONES set to 50% TOE; most have been shedding men all winter. At this point, though, most of them are picked-up; while losing one isn't the end of the world with only 800 guys left, I still think it's worth the AP to pick it up and save the men and equipment. Later in 1944, I will probably have more extra APs than I will men........

HIWIS:

My OOB has dropped 200K since the start of Blizzard, but I would be really screwed without the Hiwis. The attacking hasn't been bad, but attrition of course is eating my infantry. I have over 130,000 Hiwis now on the map.

[Peltonx]

Does he not get 200,000 in reinforsesments during December?

Your losses are about normal.

I been through a bunch of blizzards and all fell between 400,000 and 600,000. Not sure how you finish, but you seem to be doing a little better then average so far.

When can you put units in static mode?

Pelton

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Does he not get 200,000 in reinforsesments during December?

Your losses are about normal.

I been through a bunch of blizzards and all fell between 400,000 and 600,000. Not sure how you finish, but you seem to be doing a little better then average so far.

When can you put units in static mode?

Pelton

I think I'm doing OK; the attacks have not been extremely high, and I have kept alot of units "Indoors" all Winter, including 4 Infantry Divisions and about 10 Mobile Divisions, aside from Garrisons and units rotated.

RE: STATIC, I can do it now, and I thought about starting.

Here is a question: Does that 50% Attrition reduction also apply to the BLIZZARD ATTRITION?

If it does, that's an extra incentive to get units into STATIC. I think I can safely Static-ize all my units in the Valdai Hills, plus the units in the Crimea. That's 15 divisions or so.

RE: NUMBERS: The Russians get 200K reinforcements in NOVEMBER, and another 50K or so in December; so most of that growth is organic

[Peltonx]

I am not sure to tell you the truth, if it applys during blizzard or not. Its would be tricky during blizzard for sure. It works great once snow flys, it help bring back German army quickly.

I really need to get better at keeping a bunch of high moral infantry inside during winter, myself. I am thinking 12 90+ moral infantry would be better then the mech for 42.

I think you beable to take out a hole 3 wide 2 deep before even using tanks. I am thinking thats how Katza does it so easly during 42. You have 3 strong infantry corps, add in the best Leaders, 1 poineer per division, 1 stug and a bunch of atrillary at corps and army HQ's.

The poineers will cut the CV's in half, because of forts and there is not a hex during 42 they could not take out.

I have had trouble in the past doing this, but will the big gains land wize I think I got a system ironed out so i can do it. Just need to get my games vs TDV and M60 into blizzard to test it out following spring.

4 infantry divisions is proabaly enough to take out the sound row.

Static during 42 will be huge also. Yoou can keep loses very low along 75% of the front and save 10k a turn to add to the offensive.
Pelton

[Q-Ball]

That is not a bad idea for a strike force, though it's too late in my game. After the 4 Divisions at 90+ Morale, there is a huge drop-off; the next highest is 80. Too late.

The Mountain Divisions are in good shape, with 80+ Morale; they can form another "Strike Corps", though they will need Stugs and Pioneers, because the Mountain Divisions lack some Heavy Weapons

The Wehrmacht receives quite a few "300 Series" divisions that are 70 or 75 Morale. Not tremendous, but with select support can maybe get the job done.

I would still prioritize MOBILE units for shelter during Blizzard

[mmarquo]

V1.05.18 – September 6, 2011: "(6) New Rule - Units may not enter static mode in 1941."

If the rules are WAD, then Axis units can't go static until Jan 1942....

Marquo

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: Marquo

V1.05.18 – September 6, 2011: "(6) New Rule - Units may not enter static mode in 1941."

If the rules are WAD, then Axis units can't go static until Jan 1942....

Marquo

Right, but it's Turn 31, which is January of 1942. I have the option of putting into STATIC

The question is: Does that actually cut the BLIZZARD attrition in half?

[Joel Billings]

I doubt it cuts blizzard attrition. That was not the intention.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

I doubt it cuts blizzard attrition. That was not the intention.

Sorry to tell you bro, but there have been allot of things that were not intended to happen and have.

I would say it will cut your atrition by more the 1/2 not that I have done it , but but but the risk is huge because of 1 MP
and cost in AP's

Its easy to test these rules play yourself in a short game during blizzard first two turn check losses then put units in static mode.

HMM what are results?

[Joel Billings]

Well they're two different routines, so it would take an intent by the programmer to have it apply to both. Since that was not part of the discussion that led to the rule change, I'd be surprised if it does impact both. However, as stated, there's plenty that happens that is unexpected so I can't say for sure.

[Ketza]

Not to steal away the thread but is this type of attrition management by the Axis intended? It is a far cry from before because of my heavy use of static mode.

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: Ketza

Not to steal away the thread but is this type of attrition management by the Axis intended? It is a far cry from before because of my heavy use of static mode.

Attrition was dialed down in the last patch. The exact long term effects of this are unknown, but should help to keep the German army from fading away during the mid-late war years simply from frontline attrition. It will now be up to the Soviet player to actually put the hurt on the Axis.

The Soviets will benefit from this, as well, so use those 'extra' men and go kill some Huns!

[Q-Ball]

RE: Static, there is no reason the Russians can't use Static. Sure in 1942 it's touch and go, but there will be quiet sectors even in 1942. In 1943, the Russians should be using STATIC wholesale, and experiencing a similar decline in Attrition.

JAM is right; that will mean more fighting. Which is a good thing!


T-32: 1/22/42 Blizzard

Still not out of the woods. As my CVs are increasing, I am also getting kicked-out of my last trenches, and also being forced to defend some ground to protect certain units. Overall, I am growing concerned, but at the same time, February is right around the corner, and with it some relief.

I am beginning to move my "Winter Reserves" forward. This is about 10 Mobile and 4 Infantry Divisions that sat the Blizzard out. Additionally, I am pulling 3-4 more Infantry that still have 80+ morale, and getting them rested, along with a couple more Mobile units. It hurts to weaken the front just now, but I am plugging the gap somewhat with some new divisions.

During February, the Wehrmacht gets ALOT of reinforcements; 15 divisions in Feb/Mar, including 2 Panzer. This will be a great help, particularly in Tank Strength. At the moment, we sit about 2,000 tanks.

Rzhev:

I abandoned Rzhev, rather than fight for it and risk encirclement. The big problem is that the terrain to the south and west is all clear, which makes fighting for it complicated.

Otherwise, we are falling back. Barring a complete collapse, I will finish Blizzard holding Vyazma, and a hex or two in front of that. Still, that's alot of ground I gave up in Blizzard, considering I started occupying Torzhok (barely....)

4th Army Sector:

4th Army still getting major pressure. Kaluga at the northern end will be abandoned next turn. He is within 2 hexes of Orel, but I will not hold it this Blizzard. I hope to take it back, though, in Snow, and I have a Panzer Corps in OREL that is fat, happy, and hasn't moved all Blizzard.....

I should hold Kursk, but I am giving up piles of open ground in front of it.

17th Army and the Donbas:

This sector was relatively quiet for a few turns, but suddenly there is a major Soviet push north of the Donbas, toward Izyum. I shifted a Moutnain Division up there, as 17th Army is a little strained from being outside all winter. Further south, I hold in front of the Donbas, but rather than leave a bulge I plan to pull back shortly.

I should be able to hold the Donbas past Blizzard

[Q-Ball]

T33: 1/29/42

Overall, we are being pressed in a couple areas, though we can finally see the light at the end of the tunnell. One more turn of January CVs, then we switch over to February, where we get another bump in the right direction.

I am beginning to move my Sturm Infantry forward, plus my reserve Panzers, for a backhand blow. I really want to conserve some strength for this, as I hope he is strung out and vulnerable from fighting all winter.

I haven't selected the exact spot yet, but the area around OREL is tempting, as well as the DONBAS. I'll have to settle on one or the other pretty soon. I want to concentrate in one spot, and hopefully make a couple pockets.

Attack Counter:

This turn: 15-5
TOTAL: 130-28 for the Blizzard; approx. 16 succesful attacks per turn.
It could be alot worse than that.

MOSCOW:

Around Moscow, he has taken Rhzev, which I abandoned last turn. B-G seems to be stopping west of Rhzev, but not sure. The lines in front of Moscow are still under pressure. I barely hold Kaluga, though I expect to give it up.

4th Army Sector:

4th Army is being pressed still. von Kluge had been sacked, and replaced by the AI with Kuntzen, who kind of blows. I sacked Kuntzen this turn, and promoted Gothard Heinrici, who is a solid Army commander.

I was forced to counterattack this turn, as B-G put the squeeze on some of my infantry, but I was successful and extricated everyone.

Donbas:

See the shot below; this was a very strong move on B-Gs part, saved only by the ROMANIANS. Yes, the Germans crumbled, and Romanians saved the day!

To be fair, the German units have been exposed all Winter, and the Romanians are FRESH.

[Peltonx]

How large is BG army and how many did you kill by dec 1st?

Pelton

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Ketza

Not to steal away the thread but is this type of attrition management by the Axis intended? It is a far cry from before because of my heavy use of static mode.

Its can help, but only if your sure your not going to get pushed. If you had a good 42 you will be able to use static during 43.

Its not a game changer, once late 43 rolls around if your not doing to good then none of your units will be in static mode. If you have most of the front in static and the reds get a break through your going to get pocketed somewheres and that be the death of you.

It is a plus, but can be a huge minus if not managed just right. Vs Kamil he was not attacking an I had 100% of front in static. Once he started pushing hard in early 43 I had to use up my 500 pts to get 2/3 of front out of static.

Its a tool, but not a game changer unless you had a good 42 and a solid 43.
If game was even then it will just buy you a little time.

[Q-Ball]

T-34: 2/5/42

The first turn of February sees a noticeable drop-off in Soviet Attacks. And he was attacking in JANUARY last turn, but still only had 6 attacks. I think Bletchley Geek is winding things down, and digging a few trenches before the Snow.

A full-scale assault on Kaluga took the city; a surprise, considering I had a Mobile unit well-dug in there. Oh well, kudos to B-G. I expected to lose Kaluga, and it's his.

The only other attacks are around OREL. He is pressing around the City, which I expect to lose, but I am trying to run-out the clock on Blizzard and keep his attention there.

I launched 2 counterattacks around OREL; they pushed the Soviets back. Casualties were a bit high for me, but I purposely used alot of units in order to re-build morale, and see how this dynamic can work for me in 1942. I had 3 Infantry Divisions participate, and all of them gained 1-2 morale points. I will have to remember that.

Surprisingly, the drive on Stalino suddenly halted. I was preparing to fall back on the Donbas cities, and my final line of trenches, but B-G halted. Same around Kharkov, where I retreated to the final Winter defense line, but B-G seems OK with a halt.

Given the fact that the Russians appear to be halting, I am instituting a "Hold Fast" order, and will see what develops next turn. If there are still no attacks, I think it's over, other than more Winter attrition.

Attack Counter:
This turn: 4-2
Total: 134-30

That seems very low!

LOSSES:

The difference between my game vs. Tarhunnas and this one is very stark in the area of winter losses. In that game, we each lost over 1 mil men in Blizzard. This game, it's about HALF that, and probably much of that is attrition.

There just hasn't been tons of fighting. B-G is a very good player, so he may have something up his sleeve, but I would have pushed it harder this winter. I did limit the attacks with all my withdrawls, but I think he is passing on opportunities to slug it out with the Germans. I would be taking that option and trying to max-out my Guards, but that's a personal choice.

As a consequence of the lack of fighting, there are a few impacts on the Summer.

First, the Red Army will be huge. It's already 5.6 mil, and should easily top 6 mil by the start of summer. On the flip side, though, I have only identified 5 Guards Rifle Units. Granted some die rolls may come in and "flip" a few more, but that's a low figure so far. By the end of Winter vs. Tarhunnas, I capped-out at approx. 120 Guards Rifle Divisions, and something like 12 or 14 Guards Cav Corps. No comparison.

The Wehrmacht is in OK shape; my morale isn't bad due to lack of attacks/withdrawls, it's all due to attrition. My losses could be worse. I have about 15 decent divisions right now, and if I add the 12-odd I get before the heat of the summer, I should have 30 more or less 1941-quality divisions as my schwerpunkt.

Next turn, I will start to look at locations for summer offensive, and plan accordingly. There is alot to do as Germany, because you have to move whole Armies around to the right location. One big choice will be whether to drive on Moscow. Moscow is the most tempting target, but one that figures to be slow-going, and is exposed to counterattack. We'll have to decide on that vs. a Southern Campaign.

Numbers and Morale:

Without many changes at the front, I am posting numbers this turn.

MORALE has been a big topic on the boards lately, so I am posting the full Wehrmacht OOB for Infantry, and it's corresponding morale. The average is around 67 or 68 at the moment. The two lowest divisions are the two that were destroyed in the Crimea.

The lowest normal division is 15th Infantry; this division started summer at 70, but has been blasted backwards toward the Valdai Hills, and was very nearly destroyed (surrounded on 5 sides). It's Morale is 55, and it will finish Winter at 52, unless I get a die roll in there. That will be the lowest.

Actually the lowest overall is 12th Panzer, or should I say 12th "ERSATZ" Panzer, which is a repalcement formation that's been sitting outside all winter. It's morale is 43! This unit will be AGN Armored Reserve probably for all of 1942.