The Power of Inexperience / GreyJoy(A)-Rader(J)

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

This is the time to recognize your opponent's mindset; to use a bit of intuitive psychology here. Rader is ready to stampede. All it will take is the slightest noise to spook him out of India. You got to realize that and you've got to make the noise.

The slightest threat of outflanking his units will push him out of Lahore. Then you'll know he's going all the way back to Calcutta.

Don't stop now to organize everything beautifully. This isn't the time to await arrival of the orchestra and full choir before you begin the concert. No! This is the time for the one choir member to pick up the symbols, run straight at the cattle, and begin banging and clanging away.

The next time you see those cattle, they'll be chewing their cud in Calcutta.

I've got to disagree and go with Alfred. He's trading pretty worthless territory (Multan) for time. His whole war strategy rests on India's economy propping up his aircraft manufacturing. If GJ wants India he'll have to take it. Rader is not going to leave.

Every week which passes is golden for rader at this point. He has a system of fall-back lines in mind, and he's systematically executing them. If GJ wants decisive naval action he's going to have to hang it out there. Rader won't come to him. He's hunkering down, waiting for 1946.

I agree that Rader is probably not going to leave India without fighting a delaying campaign.
However my point is that, considered everything, he didn't have to leave Multan and he could have easily keep me bogged there. Now, with the opening of the Multan bottleneck, allies' position in India is much more open and fluid...thus opening up chances to a breakthrough

I know i will have to seek for a decisive action...but, if RAder's game vs Jzanes teaches me something, my esteemed opponent won't throw his naval assets out easily...he knows the strenght of the "fleet in being" and he also knows how to use the LBA+KB powers in a coordinated combination.

[GreyJoy]

The New Guinea statle mate

[GreyJoy]

Allied planned advance towards Lahore

[Alfred]

That planned advance leaves you open, as I indicated in my last post, to a tactical riposte from Radar which could trap your army.

Alfred

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

That planned advance leaves you open, as I indicated in my last post, to a tactical riposte from Radar which could trap your army.

Alfred

Yes, i see my left flank is open. But as stated i plan to have a good tactical reserve at Multan in order to act as a firestopper. However if Rader comes out and plays in the open ground it's not a terrible solution for us. Our troops, now fully upgraded, should be able to stand his own in a clear terrain hex contest and our tanks will be able to show their capabilities (finally!). And also consider that Rader has the same problem that i have...we both cannot move without our AA cover (if he sneaks his head out of the AA he knows i can bomb him to dust)...so i'm not really afraid of a blitz on my flank. If i proceed keeping reserves to cover my flanks and my back i think (i hope) i parry his possible attempts...

[Alfred]

Yes but he will have the benefit of the tri base area airfields. Plus if you move too much forward you expose your rear to a back door naval invasion or an advance from Ahmadabad (sp).

Alfred

[Jzanes]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: Alfred

That planned advance leaves you open, as I indicated in my last post, to a tactical riposte from Radar which could trap your army.

Alfred

Yes, i see my left flank is open. But as stated i plan to have a good tactical reserve at Multan in order to act as a firestopper. However if Rader comes out and plays in the open ground it's not a terrible solution for us. Our troops, now fully upgraded, should be able to stand his own in a clear terrain hex contest and our tanks will be able to show their capabilities (finally!). And also consider that Rader has the same problem that i have...we both cannot move without our AA cover (if he sneaks his head out of the AA he knows i can bomb him to dust)...so i'm not really afraid of a blitz on my flank. If i proceed keeping reserves to cover my flanks and my back i think (i hope) i parry his possible attempts...

actually i'd say your right flank is the one put in danger with your planned advance. in fact, i would send your main force south of lahore and threaten to cut the railline to Calcutta. Rader will be forced to either abandon the entire position and retreat to Delhi, or he will have to come out and fight in the open. i'd also recon all the bases south of lahore and see if there's any opportunity for a decisive paradrop. at this point you should have quite a few airborne capable brigades in your army.

[GreyJoy]

mmmmm......you're both right i fear...mmmmm.....

...ok, i'll think about it...

thanks guys!!

[princep01]

Forward Reek. Listen not to the counsel of the meek and timid. At the enemy and engage.

Listening to all the Monty's (oh, pray watch your left flank....oh no, it's the right that is in peril....oh no, Rader is everywhere and will stab you in rear at the slightest provocation..oh my, oh my). Sounds of wringing hands.

Reek. He has left a position that seemed well nigh impregnable and I can assure you it was not because of some vague threat from unescorted 4 engine bombers. Those guys had to be in forts so deep that nukes would have had trouble rooting them all out. Also, with the flak there and the air at his disposal, he would have wracked havoc on those 4Es. He gave it up with something in mind. I don't know what it is, but this game is probably lost anyway. Go forth and discover.

Perhaps CR is correct and he got the Yips (doubt that, but maybe). Maybe he just wanted to shorten lines or something else. But if you allow him to dictate the future course of the game it is surely lost.

So, stop listening the the milksop corp and go to war. It is the advice given by another, but no captain can go wrong who engages the enemy more closely. You have the tools. Now go use them.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

In NG he's forcing me to a statlemate...he keeps on pouring new infantry units to the front line...now his 16th and 17th armies (facing my I and II AUS corps north of Buna) are composed of 35k men, while the 4th division (8,500 men strong) is occupying the mountain hex west of it.
3 NZ Bdes are trying to flank these positions marching in the swamps north of PM towards Tarapo, from where it seems that his units are marching back to Lae...
If i cannot break this line i have to find another route to get to Lae.
I'm thinking about sending an US division to Terapo and, at the same time, diverting some of the forces prepping for Torokina to an amphib operation at Lae or Salamua...using Buna (AF lvl 6) and PM to cover my landings... gotta think about it...i hate the idea of changing the preparation for some of my LCus...

Yep, fighting major land campaigns is a problem and until you control the sea, he can reinforce with more troops than you can put into the field. But the upside is that the Allieds can just "bounce" That is, anyplace where you are not making headway should be put on the back burner. The Allied player just needs to be always looking for a place to flank the Japanese MLR. You have made it into 1944 and you will see a flood of landing ships-not to mention about a milliion CVEs. Don't obsess with bulling your way through if it can be bypassed. And most everything can be bypassed.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: princep01

Forward Reek. Listen not to the counsel of the meek and timid. At the enemy and engage.

Listening to all the Monty's (oh, pray watch your left flank....oh no, it's the right that is in peril....oh no, Rader is everywhere and will stab you in rear at the slightest provocation..oh my, oh my). Sounds of wringing hands.

Reek. He has left a position that seemed well nigh impregnable and I can assure you it was not because of some vague threat from unescorted 4 engine bombers. Those guys had to be in forts so deep that nukes would have had trouble rooting them all out. Also, with the flak there and the air at his disposal, he would have wracked havoc on those 4Es. He gave it up with something in mind. I don't know what it is, but this game is probably lost anyway. Go forth and discover.

Perhaps CR is correct and he got the Yips (doubt that, but maybe). Maybe he just wanted to shorten lines or something else. But if you allow him to dictate the future course of the game it is surely lost.

So, stop listening the the milksop corp and go to war. It is the advice given by another, but no captain can go wrong who engages the enemy more closely. You have the tools. Now go use them.

Can't see where I advised GreyJoy to not engage. Perhaps you might pay more attention to concrete issues when formulating your advice to GreyJoy. Otherwise a good idea might be ruined by a poor implementation plan.

Alfred

[Cribtop]

crsutton is correct IMHO. You are seeing Rader match your armies in the field. At some point, you will have to use your navy to make a jump. It doesn't have to be now, and it needs to be very carefully planned, but for the moment although you're doing well tactically everywhere and operationally well in the Solomons, strategically you are dancing to Rader's tune, which is "run out the clock."

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

I agree that Rader is probably not going to leave India without fighting a delaying campaign.
However my point is that, considered everything, he didn't have to leave Multan and he could have easily keep me bogged there. Now, with the opening of the Multan bottleneck, allies' position in India is much more open and fluid...thus opening up chances to a breakthrough

And maybe that's exactly what he wants you to do. To throw resources at his new defense line in India, still far north of his industrial core, and not send them to someplace where he doesn't have half-a-million men.

Just sayin'.

[Jzanes]

Only an amphibious invasion can break the stalemate in NG. You don't need to land at one of Rader's major bases. Landing at a smaller or even dot base will work just fine since you will be able to build it up very quickly. I'd actually land at a bunch of the little bases and build them all up at once. This will help you flank Rader's blocking positions and eventually overwhelm them.

In order to make an amphibious landing you need at least temporary air superiority. Since you've reached 1944, you should be able to use the considerable allied "mass" to achieve this objective. I would use "smash and grab" tactics. Find Rader's main airbases, sweep them with every fighter you have, and follow up with every 4E bomber you can mass. Don't worry about losses and keep hitting his bases until all his key airbases are temporarily shutdown or Rader concedes the skies and withdraws his planes. Have your amphibious forces ready to swoop in the turn after you capture air superiority. Land troops for one turn and then pull your ships back to your lines while you secure the target. Rinse and repeat over and over and over and you should be able to really start rolling with the americans.

Keep in mind that at this point, the japanese cannot match the massive punch that your 4E armada gives you. They also cannot reliably stop you from destroying his airfields once they are in range of your fighter sweeps. Overall, his fighters may be more numerous and more advanced but if you setup your raids correctly, the bombers will get thru, and they will shutdown his airfields very quickly. Rader's only remaining option will be to use his navy to stop you. However, the IJN carriers and surface ships are precious since they cannot be rebuilt.

[princep01]

And you, dear Alfred, might try being something other than a complete stuffshirt and have a bit of fun. But, I suspect it is not in your nature to have fun.All I have seen from you in this AAR is don't do this Greyjoy, dare not try that Greyjoy and give an "analysis" of why Rader left the Multan position that I consider concretely wrong. However, since I have no better idea why he did this, your idea may prove to be true. We'll know at the end perhaps.

In addition, you have taken swipes at all of us and Rader's play. Your holier than thou commentary is NOT appreciated. Further this is not the first time you have chosen to be a complete bore. Rader conquered the map, old chum. I suspect he did something right in the game strategically.

If you are getting the picture that I do not like the style in which you post your snobby comments, then, for once, you have correctlt assessed the situation.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: princep01

And you, dear Alfred, might try being something other than a complete stuffshirt and have a bit of fun. But, I suspect it is not in your nature to have fun.All I have seen from you in this AAR is don't do this Greyjoy, dare not try that Greyjoy and give an "analysis" of why Rader left the Multan position that I consider concretely wrong. However, since I have no better idea why he did this, your idea may prove to be true. We'll know at the end perhaps.

In addition, you have taken swipes at all of us and Rader's play. Your holier than thou commentary is NOT appreciated. Further this is not the first time you have chosen to be a complete bore. Rader conquered the map, old chum. I suspect he did something right in the game strategically.

If you are getting the picture that I do not like the style in which you post your snobby comments, then, for once, you have correctlt assessed the situation.

princep01,

Your last three posts have been thinly disguised ad hominem attacks. Made without any basis other than the false comments you have attributed to me which you have manufactured.

If GreyJoy does not want me to post in his AAR he merely has to ask and I will comply. As it is I rarely post here because I have no interest in the universe which contains characters such as Bolton, Reek et al. Only because no one appeared to provide GreyJoy with a satisfactory answer to his question as to why Multan had been abandoned, did I provide some commentary.

GreyJoy is quite tolerant of the light hearted banter which permeates this AAR, but he also quite regularly asks for guidance/information in order to improve his play. I don't criticise your light hearted banter, you should do the courteous thing and not criticise when I post on those occasions when there is relative silence on the serious points. Or at least try to compete honestly in the marketplace of ideas.

Alfred

[GreyJoy]

Princeps, Alfred,

    i'd like to be feel more confortable with english language to be able to express my thoughts in a better way, while my limited padronance of this language clearly limits my ability to express deep and complex thoughts...however i'll try anyway.

To be honest, i really do appreciate when people comment or analyze the strategical situation of my game and, further, puts suggestions and counsels. It doesn't really matter to me the "way" these comments are presented (if in a friendly and joking tone or with a more serious and professional tone). What matters is that you care to give your help and to partecipate to this kind of "war board". In the end i think that's what an AAR is all about (as Crsutton has well said few pages back when LoBaron was expressing perplexities about the amount of help i was getting from the community).

I'm sorry to read that there's not much of sympathy between you two, but i know i cannot do anything about it. I just wanna let you know, for what it is worth, that i do thank both of you for being here, for losing your time to write down comments, suggestions or even simply to support my efforts with a kind word. The simple fact that you invest part of your daily time in writing down on this AAR, to me, is a sign of care....and i'm touched by that. Touched by the spirit of this community.

So, Alfred, please feel free to come back here whenever you want. Your comments (even those in the past that could sound a bit "brutal") have been very important for my maturation (?) process and, like i've already said in the past, i express my gratefulness.

Princeps, you have always been a mainstay of this war effort of mine, of this AAR. Needless to say i love the whole "Reek-Bolton" joke and i love to feel your constant presence here, by my side. In this "war board", as far as i'm concerned, everybody is well welcome and allowed (not that i could forbid anybody anyway) to express his opinion in the way he prefers. It's part of the "role game" i think...


Jan 6, 7 1944

A bad day, or, to be clearer, a bad night.

On the night of 6th, 19 Frances took off from Rabaul and arrived over Tulagi... we scrambled 11 Havoc NFs (crack pilots) and 3 Ventura NFs... the alt was correct having the venturas at 7000 and the havoc at 8000...the raid arrived at 7000 ft.... we engaged...and we were repulsed... not a single hit on the enemy raiders that were allowed to arrive on the Tulagi harbour without any problem... i had the "Lee" Task Force there... BB Massachusset and Washington, along with 3 CAs and 8 Fletchers... flak was non-existent (only 1 shot down and 1 damaged)...and the bastards put a torp into the BB Massachusset...

That's the second Fast BB that i got damaged by his night torpedo bombers... it seems that, despite my efforts, even the Night Fighters are able to keep my fleet secure during clear nights...[:-]

4 Essex Classes got their 10/43 upgrades and are now back on line, while 3 Yorktowns are going to get their 10/43 upgrades right now...

About NG...Jzanes and CRsutton are right...i need an amphib landing to break the statlemate...but at the moment i have everything committed for the northern Solomons (Choiseul Bay) and Northern Oz operations and i cannot devote more amphib forces to NG...When Choiseul Bay will be over i'll probably consider an amphib landing at Lae...

For tomorrow (100% moonlight) we have ordered to 50 of our 4Es from PM to bomb Rabaul AF, where more than 800 planes are reported...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on TF, near Tulagi at 114,137

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
P1Y1 Frances x 17



Allied aircraft
P-70 Havoc x 4
PV-1N Ventura x 2


Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y1 Frances: 11 damaged
P1Y1 Frances: 3 destroyed by flak

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
BB Massachusetts, Torpedo hits 1[:o][:o]
BB Washington
CA Louisville



Aircraft Attacking:
14 x P1Y1 Frances launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

CAP engaged:
VMF(N)-531 Det 1 with PV-1N Ventura (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000
Raid is overhead
15th FG/6th NFS with P-70 Havoc (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 8000
Raid is overhead

[princep01]

Greyjoy, thank you for your kind words ("maturation" is correctly used BTW). I hope to continue to add a bit of advice and a lot of joviality to your fine AAR in the coming days.

As to Alfred's writing style, I have had my say and he has had his say. As far as I am concerned there is nothing else to say on my part. He is, of course, free to comment as he sees fit.

I enjoy your AAR as much as any AAR I have ever participated in. Your creative use of language is as charming as your approach to the game.

Carry on, soldier.

[beppi]

It is always nasty to catch some Torps with the big ships and there is no real way to defend against it. You get a some additional night fighters squds and especially some planes which pack more punch (20mm) but it remains always a problem. Even a 100 night fighters with 70+ exp pilots are leaky and cannot really defend against an night torp attack. Only real way is to nuke the airfields where they operate from.

Regarding your situation in India. Always hard to estimate. The main problem is see are some weaknesses of the engine which you will start to face. Large troop battles which you might encounter in india are always hard to fight. The engine is not made to really calculate a 10000 AV vs 10000 AV battle and the results are always very lucky. But play and peak around, always be aware of some nasty tricks of reder but it is hard to really cut off large stacks of units so i do not see really big danger.

In general about your Situation in NG. Try to fight a mobility fight. Whenever you encounter some stiff resistance just shift your focus to somewhere else. I do not mean give up the fight but just build a strong enough force with your B-Grade units and use your A-Grade units to play somewhere else, or to create a strongpoint to break the defense.

I count units as the following in 1944 with the US 1944 upgrades. Indian/Australian and British 1944 upgrades are not that important as the Squad Soft attack is only increased by 1 or 2 and not as massive as the US ones.

A-Grade: US-Marine Divisions, US-Army Divisions, US Armored Units (with Sherman tanks), Indian/Brithis/Australian armored Bdes with Sherman-V(Or Grant, but Grants are quite weaker than Sherman-V) in it. (There are some bdes with a lot of infantry and only light tanks which i count B-Grade)

B-Grade: Indian /Divisions, British Bdes/Divisions, Australian Bdes/Divisions, NZ Bdes, US armored units without Shermans, Indian/British/Australian armored Bdes withouth Sheman-V, US Marine Bdes and Army Bdes (as Bdes take heavier losses and than entire division i count them B-Grade most of the time. It depends, if you fight a small scale fight US Bdes are A-Grade but if you want to fight a stack of a few japanese divisions they are B-Grade).

Use your A-Grade stuff to take the heavy defended places, to bust enemy heavy resistance, to break stalled fronts somewhere, to invade heavy defended islands and to be the first ones during all invasions. If you shift your focus try do replace your A-Grade Stuff with some B-Grade stuff to have your A-Grade units available. B-Grade units defend well, they can fight and beat the Japanese and are more or less equal to Japanese units but the A-Grade stuff is much much stronger.

It is not the raw AV which counts, it is the adjusted AV and the combat power and resistance of the squads/tanks which counts. And strength of squads drastically influences the adjusted AVs during a combat round. And US 44 stuff is nasty.

[GreyJoy]

Thx Beppi, very very helpful informations...as always with your comments! Thx!

Jan 8, 9 1944

A mixed turn, made of mistakes on my side (shit happens).

At first the good news...

Rader came with a strong CA SCTF, composed of 4 CAs and 8 DDs to (apparently) bomb Munda. At first they tangled with our PTs, sinking 4 of them (100% moonlight...no chances for my little SOBs), but, just before the bombing phase, SS Harder placed a mark 14 Torpedo in the stomache of CA Myoko... not too much damage but the ship was left smoking...so i bet she will have to spend some time in a repair yard...and, above all, the bombing didn't occur, so we managed to deliver the next day 3000 more supplies to Munda.

Then, when the day came, Rader set up a nice ambush over Thousands, placing 100 fighters on LRCAP...I have 50 B-25s that daily took off to bomb the place.... luckly some 30 Hellcats took off and escorted the bombers...we lost something like 17 hellcats in 2 days, but we saved the B-25s and shot down 15 enemies (20 more were damaged and figured as Op losses)... you see? Good crews pay off even when on escort mission!
10 Top class Pilots are gone for good...but this teaches me not to become sloopy!

Then the major mistake... those 50 4Es that should have taken off at night were set at day...so we arrived over Rabaul with 50 unescorted 4Es...i can let you imagine the outcome...we lost 40 4Es [:(] and 20 bomber crews [:(]

The good news is that we destroyed 90 planes on the ground at Rabaul...cause we got through! again...good bomber crews can do wonders even when unescorted and against heavy CAP...

...and now Rader must feel less confortable... if i had sent my 200 4Es preceeded by a good sweep mission and with some escort...well...i guess Rabaul now was a ruin[:)]

However, nothing terrible...every mistake teaches me something more!

4 Divisions arrived at perth Today...along with 1,000,000 supplies and 100,000 fuel [8D]...getting ready

We're are almost ready for Chiuseul now. We'll start in 4 days!




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Munda at 111,134

Japanese Ships
CA Myoko, Torpedo hits 1
CA Aoba
CA Ashigara
CA Atago
DD Yamanakaze
DD Yugure
DD Fujinami
DD Suzunami
DD Shimakaze
DD Aogumo
DD Myojinkaze
DD Arikaze

Allied Ships
SS Harder, hits 6


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Thousand Ships Bay , at 114,136

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 30 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 58
A6M5 Zero x 6
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 6
Ki-100-I Tony x 45



Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 10
B-25D1 Mitchell x 41
F6F-3 Hellcat x 37


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 2 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-25D1 Mitchell: 1 damaged
F6F-3 Hellcat: 7 destroyed



Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 2
Port hits 12


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Rabaul , at 106,125

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 75 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 1
N1K1 Rex x 7
N1K1-J George x 26
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 11
Ki-45 KAIc Nick x 12
Ki-84a Frank x 22



Allied aircraft
B-24D1 Liberator x 24
B-24J Liberator x 22


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 1 damaged
A6M3a Zero: 1 destroyed on ground
N1K1 Rex: 4 damaged
N1K1 Rex: 2 destroyed on ground
N1K1-J George: 24 damaged
N1K1-J George: 7 destroyed on ground
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 2 destroyed on ground
Ki-45 KAIc Nick: 1 damaged
Ki-45 KAIc Nick: 2 destroyed on ground
Ki-84a Frank: 19 damaged
Ki-84a Frank: 4 destroyed on ground
G4M1 Betty: 4 destroyed on ground
G3M2 Nell: 7 destroyed on ground
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 2 destroyed on ground
P1Y1 Frances: 4 destroyed on ground
D4Y3 Judy: 4 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D1 Liberator: 7 destroyed, 6 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 4 destroyed, 12 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled



Airbase hits 16
Runway hits 53