South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) vs Dan Nichols (A)

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

One question. How much supply does a supply hit destroy?



Each supply (or fuel) hit destroys 1%. If you get, say, 5 hits, you don't destroy 5%. You destroy 1%, then 1% of the remainder, then 1% of the remainder, etc.

Interesting. So much still to learn.

This should mean that although I've done well bombing the airfield to 'use up supply' for the Chinese by forcing them to repair the fields, I could pick my spots better. It seems hitting larger supply production centers and places where troops are massed would make more use of supply hits by that 1% coming out of larger concentrations of supply.

Pretty sure this has been changed in the beta. Look back into the "K's" somewhere. It is now based, IIRC, on bomb size. I THINK, as it was not stated, that the 500lb/250kg bomb does the original damage. Smaller do less (prolly linear relation, but never stated).

Thanks Pax. I'll look back into it.

I just got the next turn back from Dan and he mentioned being cautious and sending ships back out of Tahiti after he lost track of the KB near Fiji. Obviously his intuition was right on. I wonder though about his next comment. He said - "My mouse roll over shows 8 CVs and 300+ aircraft."

This is interesting as there is no search this far out from Tahiti, and none of the ships we hit would have had search planes, I'm pretty sure. No reports show being spotted or snooped by search aircraft. My KB TF shows no detection level rise.

So how do I know when we're being seen?

[Erkki]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: obvert



Interesting. So much still to learn.

This should mean that although I've done well bombing the airfield to 'use up supply' for the Chinese by forcing them to repair the fields, I could pick my spots better. It seems hitting larger supply production centers and places where troops are massed would make more use of supply hits by that 1% coming out of larger concentrations of supply.

Pretty sure this has been changed in the beta. Look back into the "K's" somewhere. It is now based, IIRC, on bomb size. I THINK, as it was not stated, that the 500lb/250kg bomb does the original damage. Smaller do less (prolly linear relation, but never stated).

Thanks Pax. I'll look back into it.

I just got the next turn back from Dan and he mentioned being cautious and sending ships back out of Tahiti after he lost track of the KB near Fiji. Obviously his intuition was right on. I wonder though about his next comment. He said - "My mouse roll over shows 8 CVs and 300+ aircraft."

This is interesting as there is no search this far out from Tahiti, and none of the ships we hit would have had search planes, I'm pretty sure. No reports show being spotted or snooped by search aircraft. My KB TF shows no detection level rise.

So how do I know when we're being seen?

You dont...

[PaxMondo]

Yeah, you really don't know.

The allies get extremely good intel. Call it stray signals, coast watchers, whatever. They will often know where you are and a good idea of your force composition. If the allied player is really good at sifting and tracking all the reports, after about 6 months he knows pretty much the entire map with about a 7 day lag. Difficult to pull all that data together cohesively, and most players don't. But they could ... you have to play the allies a few time to really understand how much intel they get in comparison to the IJ "radio signals at San Diego". [X(]

[obvert]

I just got the next turn back from Dan and he mentioned being cautious and sending ships back out of Tahiti after he lost track of the KB near Fiji. Obviously his intuition was right on. I wonder though about his next comment. He said - "My mouse roll over shows 8 CVs and 300+ aircraft."

This is interesting as there is no search this far out from Tahiti, and none of the ships we hit would have had search planes, I'm pretty sure. No reports show being spotted or snooped by search aircraft. My KB TF shows no detection level rise.

So how do I know when we're being seen?

You dont...
Erkki

Ok.

I'm still confused HOW we were spotted here. Is a CV TF immediately revealed if the strike aircraft hit something? At 7 or 8 hexes (280-320 NM)? No air search could have reached 22 hexes from Tahiti. I'm positive there are no subs near here in the deep South Pacific. We ran into no TFs in the night, and if we had they would have been still within range and hit during the day.

So how have we been picked up? Even Allied signal intelligence doesn't get this good does it?

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: obvert

So how have we been picked up? Even Allied signal intelligence doesn't get this good does it?

Yes, it does.

[Erkki]

If the TF(or just hex with lots of ships, I dont know which one) is big/noisy enough and/or includes certain types of ships theres a chance of it getting picked by the SigInt and placed on the map. In my current PBEM this has happened twice, both times far, far away, with just the ship icon and no other information.

In the Marianas scenario if you're playing Japanese you get 2-3 a turn of those SigInt reports and can keep a pretty good track of the massive Allied CV force as they approach, well beyond naval air search range.

Presumably the Allies get a lot, lot more information. I know theres also the "radio call" event where the player is given an exact location of some (usually important) warship.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: obvert

So how have we been picked up? Even Allied signal intelligence doesn't get this good does it?

Yes, it does.

Here are some examples:

4th Fleet is planning for an attack on Port Moresby.

...
5013 men are based at Nakhon Ratchasima (58,61).

5960 men are based at Heiho (113,33).
[I have in based forces over 1000 indicators of where forces are ..]
....

1st Engineer Co is located at Boela(80,110).

171st Cavalry Regiment is located at Changchun(106,41).

69th JAAF AF Bn is located at Changchun(106,41).

27th JAAF AF Bn is located at Port Blair(46,58).

11th Air Fleet is located at Saipan(108,93).

66th Infantry Regiment is located at Canton(77,59).

51st Engineer Regiment is located at Amoy(83,61).

[I also have about 800 updates of where units are exactly ..]
....................................


Heavy Volume of Radio transmissions detected at Osaka/Kyoto (109,59).

Radio transmissions detected at Madang (97,123).

Radio transmissions detected at Takao (84,65).

Radio transmissions detected at 93,55. <----- Fleet

....................................................
Coastwatcher Report: xAK Clyde Maru reported in port at Darwin

Coastwatcher Report: harbor at Lae is reported empty

Coastwatcher Report: CL Katori reported in port at Salamaua

Coastwatcher Report: 1 ship in port at Manus

Coastwatcher sighting: 1 Japanese ship at 100,125 near Umboi Island , Speed 8 , Moving Southwest

With 180 turns of this information and plotting the force dispostions on a map I pretty much know where all the IJ forces are deployed .. Trying to fool this system can be ferreted out by looking at the forces moving, planning for attack, and where they are coming from ... Coastwatcher reports opens up possibilites for impromtou attacks ..

The KB and IJN forces remain a mystery .. this is critical of course and giving up this information completes the picture enabling Allied actions ... If I knew excatly where the KB was today I would sail something to go attack the Katori for example ..

Ok back to lurking ... [;)]

This from a complete newbie to this game but I think I have figured out how to use the Intel ...

[PaxMondo]

good examples ... [;)]

[Crackaces]

I think this is the biggest danger of the IJN going off on raids with the KB that only sink some xAK's and really do not advance the strategic mission.

In my limited world There are no more 'sneak' attacks after December 7th. So far every IJ move has had some hint although scattered in 6 different intelligence sources. If the AFB is willing and able they can put the puzzle together and put up an answer ..

BTW) The LYBFB's typically show the final card that acts as a deterent to action. In my game, once the KB went off raiding I executed all the prepared missions ready to go like a spring having lots of intelligence of exactly where forces were ...

I sense a very agressive and knowledgeable AFB could execute even more terror against the IJ ... [;)]

Ok back to the war and lurking ...[:D]

[obvert]

Thanks for the examples crackaces. I've looked as Allies in test games but it just doesn't matter as much playing the AI. I have a fairly good feel for the kind of info the Allies get, but this in fact is the KB being 'sighted' somehow out of search range and being listed with 8 CVs and 300+ aircraft. That's fairly precise for radio intel if they picked up suppoedly the calls from aircraft attacking ships last turn.

I've been giving out signal mis-intelligence from the beginning of the game, and it's very fun to try to use the signal reports to confuse where things are heading and what is prepping for what. Some units are prepping that don't need to prep. Some are on ships going one direction that change at the last moment and go another to drop the unit elsewhere. Eventually I know the reports of 'x unit is in x base' will show up. I'm mainly interested in messing up current ops intel about where ships are heading, etc. I have also been steering clear of islands if possible in the Solomons.

Anyway. I am mostly curious if the KB will be often picked up this way as it apparently has been this time and if there is a way to thwart this kind of intel, whatever kind it is that is responsible that is.

[obvert]

Update

Since all of the units I'm reporting on are operating in various parts of the map currently, I will give a more detailed report on them.

Shiranui

This Kagero class DD is still operating with the KB. Currently all ships are on high alert moving in for an attack on Tahiti, an Allied staging point in the South Pacific. The attack will occur tomorrow with both hits on the runway and on the port.

[princep01]

That is curious, obvert. Did the KB, in its meanderings in the Tahiti area, happen to enter a coastwatcher hex? I'm not sure if the Society Islands have coastwatchers since it is at the "edge" of the world and often not in play in many games.

Also, could he have put a seaplane on one of the islands near you and scoped you out that way? I know you are more than 20 from Tahiti, but you're not more than 20 from all his islands, right?

I know you said that it was unlikely a sub spotted you in your location, but it seems something did. Just because you arttacked some ships down there would not seem to be the cause of him locating the KB. Also, I agree that sigint isn't likely to give that kind of detail info on AC and ships.

Wish I could be more helpful. Perhaps someone more familar with the detailed mechanics of the game could explain this.

[obvert]

AMC Hokoku Maru

This ship is moving to the south of Australia in the hope of getting into the shipping lane from Cape Town to OZ. No ships sighted out here yet. It will move to Oosthaven to refuel if nothing appears, and then try heading back out into all of that open blue.

[obvert]

xAK Oregon Maru

This ship is part of a convoy delivering 2 Naval Guard units to Rabaul. These are destined to stay in the Solomons as defensive units. The Oregon maru will most likely head back to Truk to transport resouces from Naura back to the HI.

[obvert]

Tainan Ku

This group has seen little action lately. The AVG retired after it's last drubbing at the guns of the 12th Ku, and the Tainan group is giving long range escort support for bombing runs into central China.

[Mike Solli]

Man, you've been awfully successful in southern China. I don't know how you guys do so well in China....

[obvert]

PB Nagato Maru

This ship is shepherding a few tannkers into Balikpapan after a long journey from Nagasaki. These will load and leave if no sub activity appears n the straits. Several ASW TFs are actively searching here.

[obvert]

14th Tank Rgt

This bit of armour is heading into Burma. After capturing Rangoon our forces are resting and waiting for reinforcements before moving up to capture the oil fields and Mandalay. Leading the way will be 4 armour rgts and 2 Infantry rgts.

[obvert]

I-19

I-19 is the lone sub stationed near Pearl hoping to see something moving toward the line islands. No sightings yet.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: princep01

That is curious, obvert. Did the KB, in its meanderings in the Tahiti area, happen to enter a coastwatcher hex? I'm not sure if the Society Islands have coastwatchers since it is at the "edge" of the world and often not in play in many games.

Also, could he have put a seaplane on one of the islands near you and scoped you out that way? I know you are more than 20 from Tahiti, but you're not more than 20 from all his islands, right?

I know you said that it was unlikely a sub spotted you in your location, but it seems something did. Just because you arttacked some ships down there would not seem to be the cause of him locating the KB. Also, I agree that sigint isn't likely to give that kind of detail info on AC and ships.

Wish I could be more helpful. Perhaps someone more familar with the detailed mechanics of the game could explain this.

We were farther north the two previous turns, closer to an island that might have a search plane, but were definitely not sighted then, as confirmed by my opponent.

We did wipe out an AVD that turn, so it's possible there was search moving in, but it was at sea when we hit it and AVDs don't carry planes. Unless he put a few out there and was moving an AVD to go get them in working order again.

Still, no detection level rise at all.