Victory

[Klausmann]

I certainly enjoy the game a lot but how can the Russians possibly fight on (and get stronger) without any oil (Caucacus captured)... w/o Leiningrad, Moscow and Stalingrad.....

[carlkay58]

We don't know. Very few games make it past the Spring of 42. We see the blitzkrieg of 41 followed by the winter Soviet counter attack and then most games stop.

[CarnageINC]

I think most of the reason for the game stoppage of late is because of the new updates make it more a even match for the winter of 41-42.  Most ppl started new games, we are starting to see a few AAR getting into mid to late 42 now....well at least the ones I'm watching [:'(]

[karonagames]

Until I see otherwise, I still believe manpower is the key to Red Army success. If you have lost the territory but without losing the manpower, then you need less industry/armaments points to keep the army in the field. The pressure will only be felt if you have to replace huge losses before you can build the Red Army attrition grinder that can wear down an over-extended Axis Army.

I don't think it would be easy to "win" after losing Leningrad, Moscow and the Caucasus, but the sooner the SU can start the battle of attrition, the sooner they can force the Axis to crumble.

Thus far, in my current 41 GC, I have got to the blizzard having caused 4m losses to the Red Army, and am facing a 4m strong Red Army, rather than the 5m+ that Axis players who use a factory raiding strategy are facing. My plans for 1942 are all based on maximising Losses and slowing down the SU's ability to build an army of attrition, because the one battle that the Axis can never win is the battle of attrition.

[carlkay58]

On the other hand, I am starting to see that the Soviet industry has a heavier load supporting such a large army. Historically the Soviet army bounced around the 3m to 5m mark throughout the war, once you start having 7m+ you start having supply and support problems.

[heliodorus04]

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

On the other hand, I am starting to see that the Soviet industry has a heavier load supporting such a large army. Historically the Soviet army bounced around the 3m to 5m mark throughout the war, once you start having 7m+ you start having supply and support problems.

Yep, it's not Germany that's your strongest opposition. Germans hardly factor in to Soviet decision-making.

[carlkay58]

Well yeah Germany really is the strongest opposition. And a big help in keeping the Soviet army from growing TOO BIG! But there are a lot of things that we just don't know about the late game effects of the armament factories producing less and the additional loss of heavy industry because of the focus on evacuating arms first. Both of these are stressed further if the Soviet army grows too much - and the player has no control over how many recruits he gets (other than territory and manpower centers) - so the Soviets run away, preserve their army strength, evacuate arms factories, losing heavy industry and manpower in exchange. So what do we get?

Less heavy industry means less supplies being created for supplying the larger army. A larger army requires more armaments - another stress on the supplies from heavy industry. Less manpower coming in means our units are more fragile and less likely to get replacements - and those that they do get require more of the supplies and armaments. Which makes it harder to press back the Axis army and capture Berlin in time to win the war (or game). And when we will see whether the Soviets fail under the stress? Probably not until mid 44 and later. But we have not yet gotten that far - so who knows?