The Power of Inexperience / GreyJoy(A)-Rader(J)

[Miller]

ORIGINAL: princep01

It is an extraordinary battle in which the Yamato is sunk by three torpedos. I'd have expected better. Must have been additional damage from large sghells or a magazine explosion as three torpedos just would not do the job on that vessel.

Mag explosion no doubt. I lost a Kongo class BB in my last game to a single PT torp that set the magazine off[:@]

Incidently, what are the odds of a mag explosion in the game?

[Canoerebel]

Miller, you say you lost a Kongo to a PT boat torp?  Wow, who was the mastermind that worked that kind of magic against you?
 

[GreyJoy]

ok i watched the whole reply again...
 
Yamato apparently was critically slowed down with the first torpedo eaten...and, before that, the hits suffered during the battle with my BBs, have set many fires that made her shine in the darkness... the last two torpedoes, one following the previous one in no time, produced an internal explosion and a mag explosion...
 
[8D]
 
BB Mutsu seems in a very bad shape too...during the last fight of her, i saw the message that it was ordered to flood some compartments.... not a good sign[;)]

[GreyJoy]

Think the Mutsu got a collision with Yamato when the latter tried to avoid those very same torpedoes that would have proved to be fatal to her...[&o]

[JohnDillworth]

Really well done and hats off to the PT's. I am really surprised at the poor performance of your BB task force. I suspect this was just a truly bad roll. You did every thing right. Lee in charge, modern BB's in a fully modern task force. Radar contact, surprise......it goes on and on. Those PT skippers should never, ever, have to pay for a drink when the BB swabbies are in port. I bet the press reported it as a big BB victory.

[Olorin]

Well done! Yamato sunk by a PT... a new reef in the Solomons island chain...it's probably so big that you can build it up to a proper base...

Regarding Rader's withdrawal from India:
Has anyone thought that perhaps he can no longer provide the massive Indian industry with fuel? I haven't actually calculated how much fuel it needs, but he surely had to transfer fuel from Burma and the DEI, since the only refinery in India is in Ledo. His fuel reserves in the Home Islands must be significantly lower than usual, so maybe he thought it was time to start stockpiling fuel in the HI for the end game. And since he cannot logistically support the Indian industry any more, the IJA has no reason (in his mind) to stay there. Could that be a possible explanation?

[GreyJoy]

Ok guys...turn has arrived.

BB Washington has only 22 Sys and 8 flt... While NC has 30 sys and 40 flt...she will need some months to get back on track...probably 6 months i'd say...

But the good news is that the intel reports says we destroyed 19 jakes on ground...and since there were no bombing missions...i have to "hope" that those are planes sunk with the ships... so 7 for Yamato, 3 for Haruna, 2 for Aoba...what else?[:)]

We have several DDs that will need a trip to the shipyard, along with CA Australia and the two BBs...but, overall, i can say that it was a victory. A clear one.

[princep01]

Indeed, Reek, perhaps your finest hour to date in the great battles with the LYBs. Congratulations are in order. You may take the dog collar off and sleep in a straw bed tonight. But, on the morrow, we expect even great things!

Onward. Go forth!

princep Bolton

[JeffroK]

There should be a HR about PT Boats......[8D]
 
Well done, I was originally thinking you had hung around here a bit long but its turned out OKish.
 
In India, I think Rader is cutting his losses, by the time you get to Imphal/Coxs Bazaar you will be too late to get a campaign running which will hurt him in Burma unless you try to cut him off at Moulmein. I bet he has a strong force holding the place.  IMHO he could have trickled out 33-50% of his troops and still had you back at Multan.  Make sure he cant easily use these troops elsewhere, threaten some landings so that he has to use up a few units protecting his flank.
 
I'm putting in an early claim for the situation at the end of 1944, you will have Rabaul and Nth New Guinea and be fighting on the India/Burma border .

[pws1225]

Ugh! JFBs lament at the news that the mighty Yamato has succumbed. But Newbs rejoyce, AFBs and JFBs alike, at GJ's great victory!

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Olorin

Well done! Yamato sunk by a PT... a new reef in the Solomons island chain...it's probably so big that you can build it up to a proper base...

Regarding Rader's withdrawal from India:
Has anyone thought that perhaps he can no longer provide the massive Indian industry with fuel? I haven't actually calculated how much fuel it needs, but he surely had to transfer fuel from Burma and the DEI, since the only refinery in India is in Ledo. His fuel reserves in the Home Islands must be significantly lower than usual, so maybe he thought it was time to start stockpiling fuel in the HI for the end game. And since he cannot logistically support the Indian industry any more, the IJA has no reason (in his mind) to stay there. Could that be a possible explanation?

Heavy Industry points are stockpiled also. There is no benefit in rationing fuel earmarked as HI feedstock for later consumption.

Even if your concern were valid, it would be a mistake for the reasons I listed in post #3416. Rader is a tactician, not a strategist. The withdrawal is a tactical "solution" to his perceived long term problem. However it doesn't really address his concerns. It is a mistake because it is not consistent with his declared strategy. In fact it endangers his strategy.

Alfred

[jeffk3510]

Congrats on the battle. PT boats can do wonders.

[String]

Heavy fires and Heavy damage? I suspect some of those destroyed jakes came from Mutsu

[LoBaron]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: CT Grognard

There are a number of factors that result in lack of coordination of sweeps in what I believe are the order of impact of those factors:

1) Plane types (specifically differences in cruising speed) – same plane type coordinates better; the closer the aircraft types are in cruising speed the greater the chance of coordinated strikes;
2) Altitude – if you send planes in at different altitudes they will tend to go in uncoordinated, all at the same height and you have more odds of a coordinated large strike;
3) Weather – the worse the weather (i.e. rain, thunderstorms) the greater the chances for the strikes to be uncoordinated;
4) Range to target – the further away from the target hex the various squadrons are, the greater the odds of it being uncoordinated;
5) Origin – if all the planes are launching from the same base, greater chance of coordination;
6) Air HQ being present at the origin base;
7) Other factors like squadron leader statistics, squadron morale.

It appears you ordered Kittyhawks from Munda, and P-47s, P-38s and F6Fs from Rekata Bay.

It looks like you had three squadrons P-47s, three squadrons P-38s and two squadrons F6Fs (at least) at Rekata Bay – what airfield level is it? Do you have any other squadrons there (e.g. dive-bombers, patrol planes)? It could well be that your airfield was overstacked – resulting in sweeps also not going in coordinated.

The F6F’s cruising speed is quite a bit slower than the P-47D and the P-38Hs (200mph as opposed to around 250mph). This could have been a factor too.

I think in this case the following happened that counted against you:

1) Different plane types
2) Poor weather
3) Very poor die roll

Thanks CT Grognard! I've studied the "Coordination Guide" posted on the war room section...
I gotta say that i've always tried to keep those rules in mind when i try to sweep...in fact usually i never use Hellcats for this role (this was supposed to be a safe mission)...the Kittihawks were on LRCAP, while all the P-38s were set at 31k and the P-47s at 36k... Rekata wasn't overstacked, having space for 300 aircraft and 15 groups... and normally i never overstack my AFs, trying to always keep an eye on the AF limitations..

Anyway, not a big deal...lesson learnt[;)] and we'll move forward... i have to force him to come to me...that's the strategy

Guys, just to clearify (this also stated in the coordination guide):

Sweeps do not coordinate.
(I think I should bold that over there...)

This means, the reason why they arrive over target at the same time is more limited than a bombing run:
- often the IJN/IJA "looks" more coordinated because they got larger unit size, so chances are more planes arrive on target at the same time.
- the shorter the range, the higher the chance that some sweeps are over target at the same time
- cruise speed and alt might have an impact, but do not confuse this with strike coordination, there are no coordination dice rolls involved.

What is often missed though is, that usually whether sweeps arrive in a single combat replay or not does not change the outcome by much,
except that the squads arriving on target first get more of a blody nose while when all arrive over target at the same time the losses are more
equally distributed.
Its a numbers game on both occasions, and referring to the source of the discussion: rader had more airframes in the area. Being outnumbered 3:1 or worse is always a bad start.

[LoBaron]

...erm...and, wow, how long did the replay take? [X(]

[obvert]

My ships performed badly once again...Lee Chin was in charge of the BB TF and they achieved nothing...however 2 Jap BBs and 1 CAs is a good trade imho for 2 CAs and 6/7 DDs... but still...i hoped in something more...at least something more from my BBs...

However i don't know the status of my BBs...waiting for the turn right now... The NC should be in a really bad shape imho...probably more than 6 months...but hey...it's part of the game...she has been really unlucky in this war having eaten already 2 torps...

I'd say your BB TF is the reason this was a victory, simply because they probably forced the IJN ships to use up a good portion of their ammo, which made them vulnerable to all of the other small ship groups that came in later. They probably also, as you said, lit up some of the IJN ships with the hits they got, so helping in the dark rainy conditions to point them out.

This is a battle that shows a lot about what not to do in naval battles, I think. That big unwieldy TF of Rader's was vulnerable against your many small ship TFs in the confined spaces between the islands.

[Erkki]

18 ship TF, 9 capital ships, 1 depth charge per ship, 1 DD escort per BB/CA while GreyJoy had pretty much the optimal formation with 13 ships and 5 capitals(I might have used 1 BB or CA less)... And Rader didnt have any smaller supporting TFs(again unlike GreyJoy), but just 1 big one.

But Yamato going down to 3 hits... Lol... [;)]

About the E13As: remember that like CVs, the cruisers and BBs can also have floatplanes "in reserve" where a reserve plane is 1/4 of active plane. So to not exceed the 110% limit they can have floatplanes capacity + 3, which means Yamato can hold 10(7+3 reserve). Looks like you got 3 capital ships.

[paullus99]

Yamato wasn't built nearly as well as people would think - there were a lot of problems with the design, including those of her engines & she took unexpectedly serious damage from a single torpedo hit in 1944 (resulting in flooding in th bows) - not nearly enough structural flexibility to deal with the concussive forces of even near misses - causing structural beams to shear through their bulkheads during her final death ride.

Of course, I'd trade PT Boats every day of the week for 2 or 3 BBs - that was an awesome outcome & should really put a crimp in Rader's plans for a while. Those BBs aren't expendable assets.

[GreyJoy]

Hi gents,

  turns are flowing and there's no time to stop and glorify...Rader is far from being beaten and we're far far away from RL positions...

Feb 13, 14 1944

While BBs Washington and NC are limbing back to a safe port in order to get their wounds cured before sending them back to a decent Shipyard (providing good DD escort...don't wanna get them finished by a stupid Sub!), while our navy is reorganizing at Tulagi and Ndeni, our II US Corp at Panggoe is counting the scars of the last naval battle.
A Tank BN is lost, while the 24th US Division lost a good percentage of its support and heavy equipment... We need to slow down the march to Chiuseul (22,000 men spotted there) cause we need to reinforce our II Corp with another tank unit and another Infantry Division - that are already loading at Ndeni.

The KB isn't in sight...where the **** is it?!?!?!

In NG we reached our positions, but Rader has stopped me everywhere...need to re-locate our main units for the Northern Oz operation. 27th US Division is moving back to PM and from there it will be transfered to Mereuake.

My Paras are in position for the next assault.

2 brand new BBs (New Jersey and Iowa) are moving from PH to the southern seas, along with CV Intrepid and 3 CVLs...[8D]

...so it's official, we have traded 2 CAs (one old and one modern) and 4 DDs for 2 BBs (possibly 3?[:'(]), 1 CA and 5 DDs...not a bade trade [&o]

The 500,000 supplies just reached Perth from CT, along with more base forces...in one month we'll be ready to move towards Darwin!

In India we're advancing and dealing with all the BNs Rader left on his back to slow down my advance...we already occupied Cawpore and are close to Jodpur... Ralpawindi is secured and so everything up to Dehli, where the Eastern Army has safely strat moved.

[GreyJoy]

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