The Power of Inexperience / GreyJoy(A)-Rader(J)

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: SoliInvictus202

a VERY important hex to move DDs into (and if possible PTs if in range) is Hakodate))

it has a strong naval fortress - but if you just move into the hex - and not move through it into the sea of Japan then these guns won't attack!

it is a 2 hex move from Ominato - he will use massive barge transports (that's what my opponent did) to move reinforcements to Hokkaido

if you move a few DDs there - set to react 0 hexes - and he forgets to escort his barges - then you might get a few nice kills! (I killed about 4 Divisions worth on the one day I was able to get through his escorts - I lost 10 DDs or so with these moves - but 4 DIvs are worth it!)

next possible option is Mauban (or whatever) - also in range for japanese barges departing Ominato!

That straight is already well defended by his surface forces and he has moved all his air forces there (spotted CAs, CLs and several BBs).
I will have 30 PTs on hand at Etorofu...will use them to interdict its shippings.

But, sincerly i think that once ashore he won't be able to push me back...not in 1944 anyway. And even if i lose the rush for Okkaido - meaning to complete the conquest of Okkaido -....who cares? I mean if i manage to get a couple of AFs lvl 9 in range on Tokyo...that's basically the target the allies had in RL...so once i manage to secure my conquests...the biggest part is done. Am i wrong? My goal isn't to conquer the whole Japan..


Now it will start the mining process of my ports... I have with me 8 ACMs, 1 DM and 3 CMs...will try to use them wisely

Also i have 5 combat TFs that will protect my bases from any attempt of his BBs to come in...

Lee Ching:

BB Indiana
BB Massachusset
CA Northampton
CA Houston
CA Suffolk
CA Cornwall
+ 8 Fletcher DDs

Dallas:

CL Cleveland
CL SantaFe
+8 Fletcher DDs

Palliser:

CL Kenya
CL Ceylon
+ 8 British DD (12/43 upgraded)

Lane:

BB Iowa
BB New Jersey
CA Boston
CA Sophospire
CA Sussex
+ 8 Fletcher DDs

Horner:

CL Boise
CL Columbia
CL Mobile
+ 8 Fletcher DDs

[SoliInvictus202]

I quite agree - I forgot that you already have B-29s - I didn't have that luxury...

[GreyJoy]

Now several Catalinas, Mariners, PB4Ys and Recon squadrons will be transfered at Etorofu, Upurru and Shimushiri. With all those planes i should know pretty well what he has in Japan and where the KB is.
As soon as we conquer Bihoro (lvl 9 AF), 600 bombers will be transfered from The Aleutinas.
 
 

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: SoliInvictus202

a VERY important hex to move DDs into (and if possible PTs if in range) is Hakodate))

it has a strong naval fortress - but if you just move into the hex - and not move through it into the sea of Japan then these guns won't attack!

it is a 2 hex move from Ominato - he will use massive barge transports (that's what my opponent did) to move reinforcements to Hokkaido

if you move a few DDs there - set to react 0 hexes - and he forgets to escort his barges - then you might get a few nice kills! (I killed about 4 Divisions worth on the one day I was able to get through his escorts - I lost 10 DDs or so with these moves - but 4 DIvs are worth it!)

next possible option is Mauban (or whatever) - also in range for japanese barges departing Ominato!

But, sincerly i think that once ashore he won't be able to push me back...not in 1944 anyway. And even if i lose the rush for Okkaido - meaning to complete the conquest of Okkaido -....who cares? I mean if i manage to get a couple of AFs lvl 9 in range on Tokyo...that's basically the target the allies had in RL...so once i manage to secure my conquests...the biggest part is done. Am i wrong? My goal isn't to conquer the whole Japan..

You should be just fine with 6 bases up there and several that can get to level 9. Taking out Kushiro and adding that to your list of supporting airfields seems like a good plan if you're not wanting risk much. If you do have that, and if you can get your troops to Asahikawa, past the slow road and the rough wooded hex, you will take that and Sapporo. If he tried to flank you and go for Bihoro the roads are so long and slow you could most likely take Sapporo and rail back in time to stall any force threatening Bihoro. Or you can just sit and bomb! Either should work.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: SoliInvictus202

a VERY important hex to move DDs into (and if possible PTs if in range) is Hakodate))

it has a strong naval fortress - but if you just move into the hex - and not move through it into the sea of Japan then these guns won't attack!

it is a 2 hex move from Ominato - he will use massive barge transports (that's what my opponent did) to move reinforcements to Hokkaido

if you move a few DDs there - set to react 0 hexes - and he forgets to escort his barges - then you might get a few nice kills! (I killed about 4 Divisions worth on the one day I was able to get through his escorts - I lost 10 DDs or so with these moves - but 4 DIvs are worth it!)

next possible option is Mauban (or whatever) - also in range for japanese barges departing Ominato!

But, sincerly i think that once ashore he won't be able to push me back...not in 1944 anyway. And even if i lose the rush for Okkaido - meaning to complete the conquest of Okkaido -....who cares? I mean if i manage to get a couple of AFs lvl 9 in range on Tokyo...that's basically the target the allies had in RL...so once i manage to secure my conquests...the biggest part is done. Am i wrong? My goal isn't to conquer the whole Japan..

You should be just fine with 6 bases up there and several that can get to level 9. Taking out Kushiro and adding that to your list of supporting airfields seems like a good plan if you're not wanting risk much. If you do have that, and if you can get your troops to Asahikawa, past the slow road and the rough wooded hex, you will take that and Sapporo. If he tried to flank you and go for Bihoro the roads are so long and slow you could most likely take Sapporo and rail back in time to stall any force threatening Bihoro. Or you can just sit and bomb! Either should work.

That was the plan [:D] Basically the idea was to change the tide with a single massive move and finally pose a serious threat to the Japanese inner perimeter

[pauk]

ORIGINAL: String

I suspect the next few months will be brutal.

brutal for the Japanese.

good play GJ. Rader is very good player, but he will pay (as every Jap player who make even one mistake) for his mistake. Since its obvious that he was careles about his north backdoor, i will rather comment his even bigger mistake IMHO.

Using KB as active force in 1944 is HUGE MISTAKE (unless you are sure that you will achive 'mother of all victories' with KB). Actually, im bit suprised that someone still, several years after this game was published, ignores this fact. [:(]

As long as Jap player has KB intact (more or less), somewhat exp pilots and hes HIDING KB from greedy opponent eyes, he has chance to play the game.

- if GJ didnt know where is KB, would you execute this ops?

- if you would do that, and invasion become successful, KB could react promply.

all in all, excellent 'exploatation' (?) of Rader's playing style. Great move![:)]

[Crackaces]

You should be just fine with 6 bases up there and several that can get to level 9. Taking out Kushiro and adding that to your list of supporting airfields seems like a good plan if you're not wanting risk much. If you do have that, and if you can get your troops to Asahikawa, past the slow road and the rough wooded hex, you will take that and Sapporo. If he tried to flank you and go for Bihoro the roads are so long and slow you could most likely take Sapporo and rail back in time to stall any force threatening Bihoro. Or you can just sit and bomb! Either should work.


That was the plan Basically the idea was to change the tide with a single massive move and finally pose a serious threat to the Japanese inner perimeter

That is what I imagined as soon as GreyJoy posted the update and my well awe of what has taken place ... Athough a reply to my post was not as overwhelmed ...[8|]

One big difference between how Nemo's "Downfall" AAR went and the totally effective use of Kami's, and this situation is as decribed. A number of well developed land based air units in your case vs. the USN alone trying to supress airfields. The USN does not have enough to do it alone [my previous Oki... comment] and has to expose itself to do any supression. Here comes the Kami's and Nemo comes out on top ..

I counted a mere 9 bases within IJNAAF range of the Northern shores Hokkaido, and Tokyo is 12 hexes away away from Sapporo. [I would assume the worse case is the G4M3a Betty at 15 hexes?] Anyway I do not think Kami's can fly from 100% damaged airfields ... [;)]

IN teh meantime ..It will be fun to see how you decide to execute this offense ...

[Canoerebel]

GJ's move is the biggest and best I've ever seen, whether it be AE, WitP, or UV.  To have lost China and India and to then pull this is just a stunning accomplishment.

We all know that there are plenty of very tough days ahead with carnage for both sides.  Rader will recover his equilibrium eventually (but only after suffering terrific losses, I suspect), and will put up a tough fight.  But no matter what happens at this point, GJ will will win this battle.

In fact, this is analagous to Q-Ball's surprise massive invasion of the DEI in late '42 in his game vs. Cuttlefish.  Lots of fighting was to come, but Q-Ball had won the game already.  Achieving strategic surpise on such a scale in such a critical theater can be that decisive.  And GJ's surprise is on a larger scale and in a more important region than was Q-Ball's.

Mark me - my intention here isn't to suck the pleasure out of watching this campaign unfold.  There is great drama and excitement yet to unfold.  Rather, what I am trying to do is point out the magnitude of GJ's accomplishment here.  Through a clever masterstroke, the lad has turned the tables from decisive defeat to victory.  Whether that will be a decisive victory or a victory on some other level is still to be determined, and rader will have plenty to say about that.  But to go from China and India lost to massive occupation of Japan's homeland so suddenly?  [&o]

And what about rader?  With the entire China army free and all those scads of troops he has, he leaves the door at NoPac pretty wide open?  Wow!  [X(]

I bet this was rader's reaction sequence over the past few days:

Reaction Level One:  Wow, GJ is invading the Kuriles with some troops.  I better airlift in enough to stop him.  I better commit all my available air to hammer his forces. 

Reaction Level Two:  [X(][X(][X(] My puny little efforts to airlift in troops and commit my air are totally meaningless.  GJ has brought the entire Alied army, navy and air force.  He has enough to overwhelm my Kuriles bases.  I am in BIG trouble here! [X(][X(][X(]

Reaction Level Three:  *#*(@$&@##!!!!!  He's brought enough to overwhelm some of my Hokkaido bases!  What the heck have I done?  How did this happen?  I better not commit my air or ships against such an overwhelmingly superior force! *#($#&*$#&@#

Reaction Level Four:  And now Shikuka?

Reaction Level Five:     

[JohnDillworth]

Here's what we have unloaded so far at Bihoro.

Yikes!!

Talk about hit em where they Ain't!!

[Bullwinkle58]

Smooth moves!

Suggest you move a sub into each of the deep water hexes flanking Ominato if you think he's organizing there. Also, sub-laid mines are good in 1944. You have enough hulls to risk some now.

Macro, he sure picked the wrong season to give up India's Magical Kami-Making Machine. He's going to be dipping into HI stocks to keep up the air effort in a big way.

As you begin to think about strat bombing, what are your target priorities?

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


As you begin to think about strat bombing, what are your target priorities?

Briefly: aircraft 3rd generation factories...

[paullus99]

Wow - I would think priority targets would be HI & aircraft factories....of course, burning the whole country to the ground will accomplish the same thing. More like "Operation Sledgehammer...."

[ny59giants]

All seven AFs on Hokkaido and the two on Sakkalin can be expanded to size 9 AFs. This fact will spell the death of the Japanese Empire. Any Japanese player, including myself, will be looking at the Kuriles and Hokkaido to see if enough combat power is being stationed up north to prevent this from happening to them(me). [X(]

A great move by GreyJoy as you 'seem' to have pulled a MacArthur and landed at Incheon. The whole war will come down to the next two to three weeks of play.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: paullus99

Wow - I would think priority targets would be HI & aircraft factories....of course, burning the whole country to the ground will accomplish the same thing. More like "Operation Sledgehammer...."

I'm more a fan of vehicle and armament point generators. That helps everywhere and cripples incoming LCUs. HI is good too, but it's so dispersed.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

GJ's move is the biggest and best I've ever seen, whether it be AE, WitP, or UV.  To have lost China and India and to then pull this is just a stunning accomplishment.

We all know that there are plenty of very tough days ahead with carnage for both sides.  Rader will recover his equilibrium eventually (but only after suffering terrific losses, I suspect), and will put up a tough fight.  But no matter what happens at this point, GJ will will win this battle.

In fact, this is analagous to Q-Ball's surprise massive invasion of the DEI in late '42 in his game vs. Cuttlefish.  Lots of fighting was to come, but Q-Ball had won the game already.  Achieving strategic surpise on such a scale in such a critical theater can be that decisive.  And GJ's surprise is on a larger scale and in a more important region than was Q-Ball's.

Mark me - my intention here isn't to suck the pleasure out of watching this campaign unfold.  There is great drama and excitement yet to unfold.  Rather, what I am trying to do is point out the magnitude of GJ's accomplishment here.  Through a clever masterstroke, the lad has turned the tables from decisive defeat to victory.  Whether that will be a decisive victory or a victory on some other level is still to be determined, and rader will have plenty to say about that.  But to go from China and India lost to massive occupation of Japan's homeland so suddenly?  [&o]

And what about rader?  With the entire China army free and all those scads of troops he has, he leaves the door at NoPac pretty wide open?  Wow!  [X(]

I bet this was rader's reaction sequence over the past few days:

Reaction Level One:  Wow, GJ is invading the Kuriles with some troops.  I better airlift in enough to stop him.  I better commit all my available air to hammer his forces. 

Reaction Level Two:  [X(][X(][X(] My puny little efforts to airlift in troops and commit my air are totally meaningless.  GJ has brought the entire Alied army, navy and air force.  He has enough to overwhelm my Kuriles bases.  I am in BIG trouble here! [X(][X(][X(]

Reaction Level Three:  *#*(@$&@##!!!!!  He's brought enough to overwhelm some of my Hokkaido bases!  What the heck have I done?  How did this happen?  I better not commit my air or ships against such an overwhelmingly superior force! *#($#&*$#&@#

Reaction Level Four:  And now Shikuka?

Reaction Level Five:     

Add two more phases in there CR just before Reaction Level one ..

"GJ has lost most of his transport capability he will only risk sure landings supported by LBA in the Solomons or DEI .."

"Even if he does have enough transport --GJ will only execute some very limited safe operation in the DEI at best " ..

Now he gets very focused on that thought ..

Then begin your sequince of reactions ...[;)]

My reaction was first to scan over the map and note the airbases and range ...and note the ranges of P51's and P47's .. envisioning sweeps over airfields covering a great deal of industrial base .. instead of unescorted B-29's struggling over the skies of Nippon -- this is sweeping fighters and whatever fighter escort GJ desires ..to bring in B-17's ... some targets are in range of B-25's! Curtis LeMay would be licking his chops ...

Big fight for sure but the strategic significance is absoultely overwhelming ..[&o]

[ny59giants]

The #1 priority for strategic bombing is the most modern fighter factories. Once their numbers are cut down, then the rest will be easy pickings.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

That is what I imagined as soon as GreyJoy posted the update and my well awe of what has taken place ... Athough a reply to my post was not as overwhelmed ...[8|]

One big difference between how Nemo's "Downfall" AAR went and the totally effective use of Kami's, and this situation is as decribed. A number of well developed land based air units in your case vs. the USN alone trying to supress airfields. The USN does not have enough to do it alone [my previous Oki... comment] and has to expose itself to do any supression. Here comes the Kami's and Nemo comes out on top ..

I counted a mere 9 bases within IJNAAF range of the Northern shores Hokkaido, and Tokyo is 12 hexes away away from Sapporo. [I would assume the worse case is the G4M3a Betty at 15 hexes?] Anyway I do not think Kami's can fly from 100% damaged airfields ... [;)]

IN teh meantime ..It will be fun to see how you decide to execute this offense ...

The key point was in fact to obtain the controll of some AFs before the japanese air reserves and the KB could kick in!

And Pauk is right only at 50%...if i didn't know where Rader's KB was (i wasn't positive ay 100%) i could have done it anyway. My only request for this plan was to find a couple of bases that were almost undefended (Uruppu and Etorofu in this case)...cause i simply couldn't allow myself a long siege to a fortified island.

His AFs won't be 100% damaged Crackeces...i won't go on the offensive right now. Now it's time to start to drain his air reserves...and the best way to do that is to let him come to me.


Now i have to solve this problem. With this turn the Kamis are activated. At Ominato and in other close big AFs his Kamikazes, his bombers and his fighters are prepping.
I am very exposed at Bihoro, Shikotan and Kunashiri, with more than 400 landing ships exposed...only cover by the CVs...which are exposed too!
If the KB is lurking somewhere near Tokyo (untill tomorrow, when my naval search planes will finally start to fly, i'm blind) it could outurn in a massacre!

So here's my plan.
The CVs will unload all their fighters at Etorofu, while 800 more fighters will be unloaded at Uruppu and Shimushiri.
The CVs will so move back up to a safer position, while all the APA/AKA, LST, LSD, LCI and all the valuable empty ships (a lot) will be moved back towards Shimushiri (i guess Rader will keep a not too extended range for his bombers/Kami)
My CV fighters from Etorofu will perform LRCAP over what remains of my landing fleet at Bihoro, while the rest will leaky-cap the Kunashiri and Shikutan invasion fleet.
PTs and DDs will be the only combat ships in a range of 9 hexes from Ominato.
Untill Bihoro AF is in my hands and operational i won't give him any easy battle.

Let's start to kill some jap pilots![8D]

[Powloon]

Great move GreyJoy! Didn't see that one coming. Now I can see why you didn't want to waste your time raiding with your carriers in the Indian Ocean (not that it looks like you would have had any targets there anyway).

Are you planning on trying to take the inland base on Hokkaido? Would make a useful bombardment proof airfield if you can hold it of course.

Only problem I can see (providing as you say you get yourself set up) is you have a very vunerable line of communication with your new conquests what are you plans for protecting it or are you relying on the not insubstantial amount of fuel and supply you brought with you?

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

The #1 priority for strategic bombing is the most modern fighter factories. Once their numbers are cut down, then the rest will be easy pickings.

That's exactly what i think NY59...i can fight the second jap generation planes. What i don't wanna fight are those dreaded new toys...and i don't have many months before Shidens and stuff like that comes around

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: princep01

Hummmmm, his chin rests on his hand and he mutters quietly while drumming his fingers on the large conference table. Hummmmm he mutters again. Whatever has Reek done with himself. He has become a veritable sea kraken and lain a heavy stroke on those LYBs. Nice, nice and all, but, I think I'll await the dropping of the other shoe before joining fully in the hozzanas and requests for interviews.

.....

Read the posts from many of the experts in this forum ... the other shoe can drop and do damage, but as Canoerebel stated, this is the most strategically decisive move I have read in a AAR .. and as ny59giants observed .. the next 3 - 6 weeks will be very telling no Abomb needed ..Forget B-29's and B-17's ...B-25s are in range of HI ..