Upgrade routine needs an overhaul

[gingerbread]

The upgrade routine works by swapping out the old equipment for the new - the old goes to the pool and the men stays. This works fine for the device based ground elements like AFV's and guns, but the effect due to personnel based ground elements is preposterous bordering on silly.

In the example pictured below, 865 old type cavalry squads have been exchanged for the same number of the new type. The difference between the two types of squads is that 4 men have traded their M1938 Carbines for PPSh-41 SMG's, an exchange easily done in the field. The game routine makes the squads hand in all their old equipment, including the horses and then draw new. The cost for this exchange in ARM is very close to 60k for the 865 squads and there are 423 left in the 6 units still equipped with the old type that will cost an additional 30k. Yes, up to 1/3 can be recovered eventually when the old are scrapped, but it's still 60k net for ~5k SMG's!

The same effect will be caused by upgrades to German Mot- & Mech infantry as well, so this is no Soviet Fan Boy rant...

The upgrade of SU Rifle squads in '43 will also cost a lot since there are so many.

I request that this is looked at and some new routine is designed and implemented that is a bit closer to common sense, data structure and coding limitations permitting.

[Denniss]

You'll build them anyway as it's a newer type of equipment.
Maybe there's a way to convert older equipment to the newer type at reduced cost?
-> This should only happen to equipment in the pools and a valid/active upgrade path (assuming some kind of back to the barracks and retrain to the new stuff).

[johnnyvagas]

Those are some expensive PPSh's. How much are MP40's going for?

Interesting observation Gingerbread.

[Helpless]

Yes, it is know feature of current engine and it is very hard to make it much better at the moment as there is no good method to weight the inside of particular ground element. In such a case you may consider it a as hidden upkeep cost, which is not a bad thing with Cavalry as it recently became a Soviet "uber" weapon.

[gingerbread]

The large cost should become apparent in August '42 when the Soviet type 93 Rifle Squad is exchanged/upgraded for the type 95. The Soviets could very well have 40k+ squads by then, and at 7 ARM for each type 95 you're looking at 250k-300k ARM or so. Hasn't any tester reported a large drain on ARM starting at that time?

The crude and dirty (but probably not quick) fix could be something like:

IF upgrading AND groundelementID being upgraded is in this list

• then don't send to transit pool instead immediately scrap with 100% recovery rate.
  
  As to the "uberness" of Cavalry it, in part at least, is due to the worsened vehicle starvation that the Soviets operate under. I'd rather have lots more Tank & Mech Corps.

[Helpless]

The crude and dirty (but probably not quick) fix could be something like:

IF upgrading AND groundelementID being upgraded is in this list

• then don't send to transit pool instead immediately scrap with 100% recovery rate.

Modders won't be too happy if we start rude slot hardcoding Besides, I'm afraid it may bring other problems instead.

As to the "uberness" of Cavalry it, in part at least, is due to the worsened vehicle starvation that the Soviets operate under. I'd rather have lots more Tank & Mech Corps.

Here I mean all the in-game specialty + guards w/o cap bonuses came with the latest patches.

[gingerbread]

Tarhunnas has reported problems with no German ARM and close to 500k available manpower in http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2792361&mpage=23. I've asked him to check what has been built since the problems started and I really think this needs to be looked at again. Almost 500k ARM for the German Rifle 81-->Rifle 82 swap so far!

[Helpless]

Whatever is causing it, balance has nothing to do with. I.e. if you change the upgrade works, ARM production will be reduced.

[gingerbread]

Then ARM production will be reduced - I hope Tarhunnas can send you some saves to confirm. 55k Rifle and 17k Pioneer, that a lot of ARM.

[Helpless]

Once again, it is known effect and ARM production is balanced accordingly. No need to send saves because of that.

[Denniss]

Would it be possible to "upgrade" the equipment in pool with a modified export function ?

[Helpless]

Don't know what you call "modified export function".

[Denniss]

ORIGINAL: Helpless

Don't know what you call "modified export function".

Using a function similar to the one exporting equipment to other nations. Just that you dont move from german equipment slot to foreign equipment but from german slot to another german slot.
Would need some more modifications like armament production cost (cost cut in half or to one tird of new-built cost), limit to a certain amount per turn, etc.