The Power of Inexperience / GreyJoy(A)-Rader(J)

[paullus99]

Rader is facing a tough position though - he has to defend everywhere, while GJ has the freedom to invade where he wants with overwhelming power. Again, it isn't a question of getting ashore, but what GJ does once he has done so. At this point, it is just as important to plan the follow up to the landing (what needs to be accomplished, how, and with what resources) as to select a target to get ashore.

[Braedonnal]

DTurtle makes a very good point. The rest of the Kuriles do little to nothing for you other than give you peace of mind. Perhaps, you can just keep them surpressed and bypass them? I mean if you are of the mind that you have to land on Honshu, it is likely better earlier than later.

[krupp_88mm]

i dont think it really matters because it seems he is not ready to invade yet so he might as well take them while he has time, but i agree if its going to slow down his stream of men and material to Hokkaido then he should just skip it

[JeffroK]

I hope by now you have worked out where you are going anf begun prepping, you will need those 100pts wherever you go.

[GreyJoy]

may 31, hune 1 1944

Another terribly expensive and bloody turn.

The mission against Nagaoka prooved to be bloodier than expected.
I had 100 corsairs on LRCAP and they suffered terribly....think i lost more than 60 of them (still don't have the turn yet)...and i really don't think, under these circumstances that LRCAP is better than escort
Again my P-47s arrived in numbers after the bombers which, when in big boxes, pretty much managed the defend well themselfs...while the stragglers get always mauled...

He had occasionally more than 700 fighters (CAP and leaky CAP) and his radar worked this time...

A bloody turn...but another KI-83 (51) factory is out of the equation, along with 2 (51) KI-201 factories. Not bad...but i cannot sustain these losses...we know that.

4CAs and 2 CLs, along with several destroyers appeared at Shortland...what is he up to??

Hi Franks swept Panggoe...and i don't have a radar there so my guys didn't perform pretty well except for the Spits that shot down 4 franks...p-39s and P-40s are really outclassed now

CA Sussex, sent into a suicide mission (she had to be withdrawn) did perform pretty well...i'll keep on using her in these kind of missions untill she gets sunk...

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Night Time Surface Combat, near Buka at 108,129, Range 6,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Atago
CA Chokai
CA Mikuma
CA Kumano
DD Fujinami
DD Kiyonami
DD Hamanami
DD Asashimo
DD Tanikaze
DD Natsugumo
CL Teshio
CL Ninaru
DD Hikokaze
DD Kosukaze

Allied Ships
PT-113, Shell hits 6, and is sunk
PT-114, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-303, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-306, Shell hits 1, and is sunk


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Night Time Surface Combat, near Niigata at 114,57, Range 5,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
xAKL Gyokuyo Maru, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
xAKL Shunten Maru, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
xAKL Daichi Maru, Shell hits 6, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CA Sussex


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Night Naval bombardment of Nagaoka at 114,58

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 12 damaged
J1N1-S Irving: 3 destroyed on ground
Ki-100-I Tony: 7 damaged
Ki-100-I Tony: 2 destroyed on ground
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 damaged
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-84a Frank: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
CA Sussex

Japanese ground losses:
105 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 14 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled



Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 8

CA Sussex firing at Nagaoka


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Morning Air attack on Nagaoka , at 114,58

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 21 NM, estimated altitude 24,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 18
A6M5 Zero x 55
J2M3 Jack x 23
N1K1-J George x 174
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 209
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 22
Ki-45 KAIc Nick x 57
Ki-84a Frank x 71
Ki-100-I Tony x 184
Ki-102b Randy x 8


Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 18 Sweep
F4U-1A Corsair x 71 LRCAP
Japanese aircraft losses
N1K1-J George: 3 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 5 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 2 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIc Nick: 2 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 7 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 11 destroyed
Ki-102b Randy: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 6 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 11 destroyed

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Morning Air attack on Nagaoka , at 114,58

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 13
A6M5 Zero x 50
J2M3 Jack x 23
N1K1-J George x 155
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 179
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 17
Ki-45 KAIc Nick x 42
Ki-84a Frank x 51
Ki-100-I Tony x 139
Ki-102b Randy x 2 this is a new one!


Allied aircraft
Liberator B.III x 15
Liberator B.VI x 25
Liberator GR.III x 16
Liberator GR.VI x 16
B-24D1 Liberator x 63
B-24J Liberator x 266
F4U-1 Corsair x 76 *escorting*...these guys did pretty well
F4U-1A Corsair x 38
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 54


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator GR.III: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak
F4U-1 Corsair: 3 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged



Ki-201 Karyu factory hits 28
Ki-83 factory hits 30
Ki-201 Karyu factory hits 4
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Morning Air attack on Nagaoka , at 114,58

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 68 NM, estimated altitude 40,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 20 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 12
A6M5 Zero x 48
J2M3 Jack x 23
N1K1-J George x 129
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 148
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 11
Ki-45 KAIc Nick x 35
Ki-84a Frank x 44
Ki-100-I Tony x 117
Ki-102b Randy x 2



Allied aircraft
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 92
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 221
F4U-1A Corsair x 12


Japanese aircraft losses
N1K1-J George: 15 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 11 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIc Nick: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 4 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 20 destroyed
Ki-102b Randy: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 2 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed




SECOND DAY

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Morning Air attack on Nagaoka , at 114,58

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 18 NM, estimated altitude 38,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 17
A6M5 Zero x 50
J2M3 Jack x 23
N1K1-J George x 148
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 162
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 17
Ki-45 KAIc Nick x 43
Ki-84a Frank x 46
Ki-100-I Tony x 128
Ki-102b Randy x 8



Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 18
F4U-1A Corsair x 9


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 2 destroyed
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
N1K1-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 5 destroyed


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Morning Air attack on Panggoe , at 111,133

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 32,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84a Frank x 25



Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 7
P-39N1 Airacobra x 7
P-40N5 Warhawk x 7
F6F-3 Hellcat x 13


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84a Frank: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-39N1 Airacobra: 4 destroyed
P-40N5 Warhawk: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed



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Morning Air attack on Nagaoka , at 114,58

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 77 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 14
A6M5 Zero x 47
J2M3 Jack x 23
N1K1-J George x 139
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 145
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 17
Ki-45 KAIc Nick x 40
Ki-84a Frank x 43
Ki-100-I Tony x 117
Ki-102b Randy x 8



Allied aircraft
Liberator B.III x 15
Liberator B.VI x 27
Liberator GR.III x 15
B-24D1 Liberator x 46
B-24J Liberator x 236
F4U-1 Corsair x 60
F4U-1A Corsair x 35
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 52


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 8 damaged
F4U-1 Corsair: 5 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 1 destroyed



Ki-201 Karyu factory hits 11
Ki-83 factory hits 3
Ki-201 Karyu factory hits 2


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Morning Air attack on Nagaoka , at 114,58

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 69 NM, estimated altitude 23,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 14
A6M5 Zero x 24
J2M3 Jack x 23
N1K1-J George x 126
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 113
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 16
Ki-45 KAIc Nick x 29
Ki-84a Frank x 29
Ki-100-I Tony x 93
Ki-102b Randy x 8



Allied aircraft
Liberator GR.VI x 16
F4U-1A Corsair x 22


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator GR.VI: 8 destroyed, 2 damaged
F4U-1A Corsair: 3 destroyed

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Morning Air attack on Nagaoka , at 114,58

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 38,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 14
A6M5 Zero x 12
J2M3 Jack x 17
N1K1-J George x 102
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 84
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 12
Ki-45 KAIc Nick x 21
Ki-84a Frank x 22
Ki-100-I Tony x 59
Ki-102b Randy x 6



Allied aircraft
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 90
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 194
F4U-1A Corsair x 7


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 4 destroyed
J2M3 Jack: 4 destroyed
N1K1-J George: 10 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 6 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIc Nick: 2 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 4 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 14 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 2 destroyed


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Morning Air attack on Nagaoka , at 114,58

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 60 NM, estimated altitude 22,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 20 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 14
A6M5 Zero x 1
J2M3 Jack x 12
N1K1-J George x 68
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 57
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 8
Ki-45 KAIc Nick x 15
Ki-84a Frank x 17
Ki-100-I Tony x 27
Ki-102b Randy x 3



Allied aircraft
B-24D1 Liberator x 8
F4U-1A Corsair x 21


Japanese aircraft losses
N1K1-J George: 3 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIc Nick: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 2 destroyed
Ki-102b Randy: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 destroyed, 7 damaged
F4U-1A Corsair: 5 destroyed



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Morning Air attack on Nagaoka , at 114,58

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 26,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 10
A6M5 Zero x 1
J2M3 Jack x 6
N1K1-J George x 42
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 23
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 2
Ki-45 KAIc Nick x 6
Ki-84a Frank x 10
Ki-100-I Tony x 14



Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 7
F4U-1A Corsair x 1


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 6 damaged


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Morning Air attack on Nagaoka , at 114,58

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 5 NM, estimated altitude 26,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 1 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 7
A6M5 Zero x 1
J2M3 Jack x 5
N1K1-J George x 38
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 13
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 2
Ki-45 KAIc Nick x 6
Ki-84a Frank x 6
Ki-100-I Tony x 13



Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 8


Japanese aircraft losses
N1K1-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed, 6 damaged


...and many more...most of them in groups of 8 liberators[:@]


however, i need to get the eastern Kuriles for the simple fact that it's costing me a lot in terms of supplies and devoted assets(recon, bombers, BBs etc) to keep those four bases suppressed. I already have the divisions 100% prepped for this task so i won't change them right now....those bases, if not suppressed, could really be dangeorus...imagine a mass Kamikaze attack based there to my supply lines!!!....no, i need to have at least 2 of those 4...Paramushiro and Onnekotan...so to have my right flank completely covered.

And yes, i'm already prepping my divisions for Akita, Hachodate and Ominato

[GreyJoy]

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[GreyJoy]

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[GreyJoy]

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[GreyJoy]

Ok, let's make a summary.
We've wiped out 46 Tojo at Harbin, 51 Shindens at Sendai, 51 KI-83 and 102 Ki-201 at Nagoate, 56 Zeros at Hachiote, at least 60 KI-83 at Maebashi, 153 KI-83 at Mammatsu and 51 Shindens at Hiroshima, along with some more collateral damages to other plane production.
The only intact KI-83 factory is at Gifu (very well defended)... but i think it's not a bad result for the first 3 weeks of bombing.
Losses are pretty high tough...but i think i have to accept them as part of the overall equation.
 
Are we really sure that fire bombing isn't a better choice when we target large concentration of different factories?

[SoliInvictus202]

re firebombing: it depends on what you want:

HI, LI, manpower and SOME other factories get damaged A LOT with fire bombing... if you can hit a town hard enough that fires don't go out for 2-3 days - damage will be extensive...

BUT:
individual factories such as engine, plane etc... do not receive as much damage as HI and LI...

at least this is my experience from 8 months of INTENSIVE strat bombing of JApan via Hokkaido - both using night fire bombing and day precision bombing!

[jeffs]

Not sure if this makes sense (Nemo feel free to tell me it is a foolish division of firepower)....But have some of your bomber force (or even make it your 2E force) do a night bombing of the airfields of the hex you want to attack with your 4es...

Even if you do not kill all you will damage airframes and airfields (and as his best planes are often service of 3 they stay damaged a while) it will certainly surpress a decent amount of his fighters allowing you to glide right in....

And I do not know your HRs on bombing...But airfield bombing is not (by most players) considered city/strategic bombing so you can go in lower....

Nothing ruins your day like having your airforce get its butt kicked at night!

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: jeffs

Not sure if this makes sense (Nemo feel free to tell me it is a foolish division of firepower)....But have some of your bomber force (or even make it your 2E force) do a night bombing of the airfields of the hex you want to attack with your 4es...

Even if you do not kill all you will damage airframes and airfields (and as his best planes are often service of 3 they stay damaged a while) it will certainly surpress a decent amount of his fighters allowing you to glide right in....

And I do not know your HRs on bombing...But airfield bombing is not (by most players) considered city/strategic bombing so you can go in lower....

Nothing ruins your day like having your airforce get its butt kicked at night!

We have a rule for night bombing and the numbers of bombers at night in the air must be <or= to moon% and min alt 10k feet... so it's not a viable solution

[kfsgo]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator GR.VI: 8 destroyed, 2 damaged
F4U-1A Corsair: 3 destroyed

You may be aware of this, but just in case - the 'GR' you see on several UK/CW aircraft stands for 'General Reconnaissance' - they're really search/patrol models, with longer ranges than the standard aircraft and search radar, but generally have cut-down defensive armament and much lighter bombloads - Liberator GR.VI carries 2000lbs against 5000lbs of B.VI/regular B-24. GR.III removes armour entirely in exchange for very long range. Obviously you do what you need to do with them, since the RAF never does get all that many Liberators, but if you have the option of not flying them on these massed raids it might be worth thinking about.

[GreyJoy]

ouch.....

[Nemo121]

Jeffs,

Nothing will kill the IJAAF and IJNAF more quickly than continued targeted strikes on airframe factories which are producing fighters at present ( hitting R&D factories is a wasteful diversion of resources... if you hit 200 R&D factories which won't produce planes for 5 months you are basically "gifting" the Japanese 1,000 additional fighters over those 5 months which they can build from actually producing factories which you could have hit instead and stopped producing).

Night-time airfield attacks may kill some fighters etc ( whether or not there are HRs to outrule it ) but they won't do nearly the amount of damage needed to overcome Japanese new production and neither will they cause production to fall. As such I think you are better off just maintaining a laser-like focus on currently producing aircraft airframe factories ( a focus which, once again, has been lost ) since hitting airfields at night won't reduce the IJNAF and IJAAF fighter numbers - and thus won't actually achieve the stated strategic goal.

With that said Allied airpower is so overwhelming that even with significant misallocation it can still overpower the Japanese - as is happening here. However by this time after the initial landings Greyjoy had the capability to have remove all IJAAF and IJNAF fighter production capability entirely. The war should already be over.... but even with the inefficiencies the outcome isn't in doubt ---- especially as Rader is misallocating his primary strategic assets even more severely than GJ is misallocating his.[8D]

[jeffs]

Thank you..

I guess my thinking here is simply that if 2Es can not directly attack into the daylight swarm...Maybe they could help prepare the by attacking in the night....You are right that no 4e should do so....

Valid point on empire misallocation...Hard to see what nuking Palmyra would do for Japan

[Nemo121]

jeffs,

The problem with using 2-engines is that they simply don't carry enough bombs to generate a useful number of hits given the various HRs and if used in an effective manner they'd immediately be HRed out of existence in this game. I've used Netties to close major US Airfields with daytime and night-time 100 feet strikes avoiding radar so it can be done but here it'd be HRed out of existence.

In their role as battlefield suppressors during daytime they do well - even given the HR.

[GreyJoy]

The Ki-83 isn't simply an R&R plane...given the amount of factories already at 100% that we found when we started to recon and given that it's scheldued to arrive in 11/44, i think we'll see it already this month.
That said the Ki201 factories were targetted only because we were hitting that city and it has only 3 factories (1 Ki-83 and 2 KI-201 ones)...if it wasn't so i would not have targetted KI-201 production.
&nbsp;
I can handle the actual fighters that jap produce...what i fear are the ones with 30mm and faster than my own fighters (Shindens, KI-83 etc...)
&nbsp;
Thx Kfsogo for the usefull info...i didn't noticed that!!
&nbsp;
No sign of the KB...i keep all my sense activated cause i know Rader's up to something...i just don't know what and where...
&nbsp;
&nbsp;

[jeffs]

Hi Nemo,

I found the Beaufighters (but oooo so few in number) are really nasty at 100 feet for taking out
airfields (assuming you train the pilots on strafe)....When I guy has 500 fighters at one base one would hope
the effects of nailing the bases would be felt badly..

That said...This game seems like HR hell........

[GreyJoy]

And Nemo, i know you would have wanted me to start to strat bombing as soon as landed...but this is a brave new world for me and i needed some days to get confident with this new scenario. I've never been on the offensive throughout this whole game and it hasn't been that easy for me to shift from the defensive posture to an offensive one... so please be comprehensive to me [:)]